[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[TheShaun]

Round 4 - U/R Sneak and Tell
Game one - Turn two Emrakul? Sweet.
Game two - He goes off turn three with a Progenitus. He gets a hit in and then I stabilize with an Elephant Grass and a Choke and some other stall that makes him stare at me for five turns. I let the grass fall and tap out for a second Enchantress effect and a Solitary with the Grove for the hard lock in my hand. He rips his card, shrugs, lays the sneak attack he's been holding and pops in the Terastodon (the only one in his deck) that he ripped, kills some stuff and swings with Progenitus for the win.
Match 0-2
3-1
t4 -Sneak and Tell
Game one - The same guy who was my loss in swiss. Awesome. He shows in a turn 3 Emrakul and I pick up my cards. Deja Vu.
Game two - He's digging several turn after I have an oblivion ring for the Emrakul he shows in. I get set up and Words of War him to death before he gets another monster on the table (thank you, Ancient Tomb).
Game three - Pretty tight game. He has a chalice for 1 on turn one, which blanks like 4 cards in my hand, but thankfully not a lot of follow up. There's some back and forth with a Woodfall Primus, a Terrastadon, some O-Rings echoing truth. At one point he attacks with an Sneak Attacked in Emrakul into my Solitary / draw lock, I manage to bin six of my twelve permanents and fight back. There's a hairy moment towards the end of the game where I have to sack my only grove for the shuffle (The Enchantress effects, Solitary, one enchantment in hand and three lands on the top) and he Sneaks in a terrastadon to wreck my shit. there are like two turns where if he draws a threat I am pretty boned but I manage to rip the replenish first and promptly words him to the face.
Match 2-1
6-1-1

I was the Sneak/Show guy, just wanted to compliment you on possibly the best single game I can remember having. Too bad you didn't pull off your matchup in the finals, but Dan Jordan is a pretty hard opponent to beat. Look forward to seeing you at the Depot in the future.

[Masamune]

...I have an oblivion ring for the Emrakul he shows in...

Wait a sec... I didn't catch this...
Is Oblivion Ring a legal target to remove Emrakul when SandT is played?

[Hisa]

Wait a sec... I didn't catch this...
Is Oblivion Ring a legal target to remove Emrakul when SandT is played?

Yes. Emrakul has protection form colored spells. When Oblivion ring picks a target it is a permanent, not a spell. Though if you're asking about the timing on Show and tell I'm not sure. I played the spell the next turn because I wasn't sure on the ruling and didn't want to give away my hand by talking to the judge.

[Hisa]

I was the Sneak/Show guy, just wanted to compliment you on possibly the best single game I can remember having. Too bad you didn't pull off your matchup in the finals, but Dan Jordan is a pretty hard opponent to beat. Look forward to seeing you at the Depot in the future.

Ehhhh. DJ is a good player, but my record vs him in constructed is pretty good (and I'm way up on him in draft). I made like a mistake and a half in the games I played against him (I missed an attack with a shusher which turned out to be pretty irrelevant, and I played around daze all three games when I'm 95% sure the list he was playing didn't have any). Other than that my reads were all pretty much dead on, and I'd like to think I did my shit independent of his head games and shit talk. Some times the cards flip the way you need them to, and some times they don't. That's why its MtG and not Chess.

Unrelated and back on topic: I want to fit one more replenish main and one more sideboard. That card is a HOUSE against Counter-Top. Two Jaces and a Moat are your only 4s? Cool, one-for-oneing me is now even worse.

[sa17dk]

Unrelated and back on topic: I want to fit one more replenish main and one more sideboard. That card is a HOUSE against Counter-Top. Two Jaces and a Moat are your only 4s? Cool, one-for-oneing me is now even worse.

I'm running three Replenish in the MD and none in the sideboard. It's been great especially in my control metagame. Replenish basically functions as a win condition against blue decks.

[Masamune]

Yes. Emrakul has protection form colored spells. When Oblivion ring picks a target it is a permanent, not a spell. Though if you're asking about the timing on Show and tell I'm not sure. I played the spell the next turn because I wasn't sure on the ruling and didn't want to give away my hand by talking to the judge.

Targeting Emrakul with O-Ring just seens to me that we can't remove because the protection means all colored sources. O-ring beeing white doesn't matter how it does in play, but still is white and screw us a little bit, when it is played with SaT. This is my opinion (yes I want to see the rules for sure). IMO if there are any rule about it maybe it would be considered something compared with Enduring Ideal + Confiscate enchanting anyone shroud creature controled by opp

[Mark Sun]

The explanation for why an Oblivion Ring can exile an Emrakul can be clarified. The reasoning behind why Oblivion Ring can do so is because its ability is an ETB Trigger, which Emrakul does not have protection from, as simple as that. The triggered source can be all five colors and still target Emrakul.

Show and Tell is resolving - You pick Oblivion Ring, your opponent picks Emrakul.
Show and Tell resolves - Both permanents are put onto the battlefield.
Oblivion Ring's ability triggers - Emrakul is a legal target since at this point, Oblivion Ring is no longer a spell on the stack.

Same concept behind Sower of Temptation, Gilded Drake, and other favorites.


Not to be confused with Show and Tell'ing a Mind Control/Confiscate/Control Magic type card into play (an Aura); that won't work. 303.4f of the Comprehensive Rules:

303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by
resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object
or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the
battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant
ability and any other applicable effects.


Since they are entering the battlefield simultaneously, the Aura will not see Emrakul and it will not be a legal object that it could enchant.



If you are playing Enduring Ideal + some Aura, since it will enter the battlefield with Emrakul already there, then that Aura can enchant it.



In the scope of an Enchantress, if you want to save yourself from Emrakul, Show and Tell an Oblivion Ring into play. If you can't, put a Solitary Confinement into play, discard your Lignify, then cast Replenish

[Masamune]

The explanation for why an Oblivion Ring can exile an Emrakul can be clarified. The reasoning behind why Oblivion Ring can do so is because its ability is an ETB Trigger, which Emrakul does not have protection from, as simple as that. The triggered source can be all five colors and still target Emrakul.

Show and Tell is resolving - You pick Oblivion Ring, your opponent picks Emrakul.
Show and Tell resolves - Both permanents are put onto the battlefield.
Oblivion Ring's ability triggers - Emrakul is a legal target since at this point, Oblivion Ring is no longer a spell on the stack.

Same concept behind Sower of Temptation, Gilded Drake, and other favorites.


Not to be confused with Show and Tell'ing a Mind Control/Confiscate/Control Magic type card into play (an Aura); that won't work. 303.4f of the Comprehensive Rules:

303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by
resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object
or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the
battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant
ability and any other applicable effects.


Since they are entering the battlefield simultaneously, the Aura will not see Emrakul and it will not be a legal object that it could enchant.



If you are playing Enduring Ideal + some Aura, since it will enter the battlefield with Emrakul already there, then that Aura can enchant it.



In the scope of an Enchantress, if you want to save yourself from Emrakul, Show and Tell an Oblivion Ring into play. If you can't, put a Solitary Confinement into play, discard your Lignify, then cast Replenish

Nice! I'm glad now to think how I can handle with these hard-shrouded-mounsters...by the way so...If I play Lignify with SaT targeting Emrakul, its resolves like O-Ring right? Knowing about this all concerns about compreensive rules, what is the best strategy?
I was thinking about it minutes ago... in my current list I'm running:
1x O-Ring
1x Karakas
2x Replenish (maybe that what I said could work)
1x Emrakul

SB:
1x O-Ring

[TheShaun]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the judge at our event said lignify can't target Emrakul since the target is announced as the spell is put on the stack, at which point it is still a colored spell, not a permanent. I'm not sure if this is right, it's just what we were told.

[sa17dk]

You are correct. Lignify cannot be used as an answer to Emrakul.

[ForlornEgoist]

But Iona sure loves to be enchanted by it.

So, y'know, I'm really starting to get annoyed by the Rock MU. Their entire removal suite (with exception for StP) is relevant against us, and I'm just wondering how many other people are having the same issue/how we can best resolve this.

I already am running 4 Leyline of Sanctity in the SB, 1 Karmic Justic MD/SB, however MD Thoughtseize/Hymn/Vindicate/Deed/EE aside, they also have access to Extirpate, Engineered Plague, Diabolic Edict/Deed's/EE's/Krosan Grip (last Rock player I went up against even had Gaddock Teeg and Phyrexian Revoker).

True, mulling aggressively for that Leyline does help, however even that you still need to try and drop Enchantress effects as well as Sterling Groves which even in a good MU is sometimes difficult. I'm thinking about throwing Suppression Field back into the SB as it helps to stop/negate their various Top and shuffle effects (like KotR fetching Karakas/Bog) and at least slows down their fixing/thinning. Granted it'd hurt my deck a little bit more than others since I'm running 8 fetches, but still I'm just trying to figure out ways to deal with this MU.

As for the rest of my SB the only other cards I have that would be of any relevance are my 2 Wish targets Peacekeeper/Bojuka Bog, both of which would only weaken their creatures which is the lowest priority for me most of the time.

Anyway, lemme know what your opinions are.

Forlorn Egoist

[Dzra]

As a Rock player, I'd think that Rock would be your toughest MU. Blood Moon really doesn't do much against us if we are running Mox Diamond. The thing that works best is laying down Sterling Groves and comboing off as fast as possible. Boarding in more Replenish can also be key. Lignify is great too and a lot better than O-ring against us.

[technogeek5000]

My friend plays enchantress, but he plays the blue build, which is why I think the following question is important to answer:

Does the benefits of the standard red splash outweigh the blue.
Red: Blood Moon, Words of War
Blue: In the eye of chaos, Copy Enchantment, back to basics, Energy Flux as an option for the board.

At first, the list he ran contained words of wind, but he chose to replace it with a second in the eye of chaos which at this point has been a universal bomb against everything non aggro which has historically been the more difficult area for enchantress. As a combo player, he has taken several games from me as In the eye of chaos is the only card that the deck cant answer, and as long as the combo player doesnt win first turn it is easy raceable. Back to Basics effectively functions as mana denial, taking over Blood moon's role while copy enchantment functions as general utility, copying draw effects, sterling groves, oblivion rings, or anything else you need at the time. My friend has been successful with his build, and I would like to know what everyone's opinions are.

[Masamune]

IMO In The Eye of Chaos is slight worse than a City of Solitude (considering control meta). I don't like Blood Moons and Back to Basics...Moons effects affect my own fetches and Sanctuary too. BtB in SB is good against most control decks (wich would be replaced by Chokes) but affect my lands instead...
Actually I advocate this because my current list follows a different system: draw many cards as you can get every turn, playing low cc enchants and tap a single Sanctuary summoning Emrakul to hit in a single move. Often I need Sanctuary early and Moon or BtB screw me up sometimes. I hate when it happens, so I prefer change my SB (run Chokes maybe 3).

Explaining about Sneak&Show strategies and compreensive rules (I found, yes I did lol):

6/15/2010: Emrakul may be affected by colored spells that don't target it or deal damage to it, including those that cause it to become blocked. Abilities of colored permanents (such as Journey to Nowhere) may target it. Auras may be moved onto it by abilities or by colored spells that don't target it (such as Aura Graft).

Right. Oblivion can eat the monster! Sweet :P (live and learn ^^)

[Opax]

In my side i play sacred ground for face emrakul. Simply setting me under confinement or runed haloo for avoid direct damage, i can survive to the annihilator problem using my lands with sacred ground.

And Sacred ground is very useful is some match-up like aggroloam playing devastating dreams or a stax.

[ForlornEgoist]

Sacred Ground does certainly have some merit in mid-late game scenario, however it is not really tech I would consider useful for Emrakul. We're afraid of Emrakul primarily when facing Sneaky Show/Hypergenesis/etc. that can accelerate him out T3-5 whereas in the mirror the Annihilator is manageable. Remember that in regards to Annihilator/Stax (sac) effects, you can't bypass them with SG by simply re-sacing the same land X number of times (because thats against the rules, children). SG does save our lands, however aforementioned sac effects can still rip apart our board to the point of death. Most AggroLoam lists have begun to abandon DD entirely as it is a card that does little to aid the game state for them, hence it has been reduced to a mere Wish target. TBH I've learned to essentially stop trying to stop combo decks and just build a SB to strengthen our aggro/combo MU's.

Forlorn Egoist

[Opax]

Sacred Ground Remember that in regards to Annihilator/Stax (sac) effects, you can't bypass them with SG by simply re-sacing the same land X number of times (because thats against the rules, children).

If you have to sac X permanents you can simply sac X land. SG will save all of them. Right?
Sadly you will lose your growth but no more.

Of course t3-5 fatty is a problem but if you arrange to slow him down to a mid-game you can bring it home with a strong lock.

This deck is not played a lot in my meta, but, should it become, I'll return to 1 karakas maindeck and 1 crop rotation in sideboard as when reanimator was heavily played.

[Hisa]

The list in the t8 of the SCG 5k looks terrrrrrrrible, by the way.

[JCLe]

The list in the t8 of the SCG 5k looks terrrrrrrrible, by the way.

I'm curious what makes you say that, I thought it looked alright...
Care to explain ?

Thanks

[Hisa]

I'm curious what makes you say that, I thought it looked alright...
Care to explain ?

Thanks

Sure, and sorry if Poszgay is on these boards, and I piss him off with this.

I watched the top 8 and t4 games he played with this list (Reference), so I'll make some comments about the games and boarding I saw, then the list. Done from memory as I wasn't taking notes, and I have no desire to watch those infinitely slow matches again. Also, I am by no means the law, but I've been playing and tweaking this deck for six months to great effect.

Boarding Notes:

Bringing in runed halo vs zoo? You have got to be kidding me. That card is terrible in the Zoo matchup because their threats are so diversified. He named mindslaver with it g1 (because it was that useful), then brought in two more? Game two the only relevant card named was KotR, which wasn't actually relevant, since he had the lock the entire time Runed Halo was on the table. Also, game one could have been ended 4-5 turns earlier without opening himself up to any other of her outs.

Vs the Tendrils/Doomsday/Show and Tell. I think the boarding was right. You have to run good to win this match, but, that being said, I think he had it. Solitary and humilities help. There were a bunch of misplays in the match though, and lots of sloppy play. Binning a a windswept to Solitary and not a Misty? That's just the wrong line of play, period. If you're gonna think about your turns for twenty minutes at a go (seriously though, I don't mean this as hate) don't play sloppy. There were several other incorrect lines of play in this round I noticed, though I don't recall the specifics off the top of my head (I am willing to watch the video again if people are actually interested).

Deck notes:

Runed Halo - As mentioned above, too many runed halo. The card is way way way too situational. 1 main is ok, so you have an out to ANT and the like game 1, but 2 main is wrong, as is 2 more in the board. Unless you are expecting infinite combo (which you shouldn't be in this environment) this choice is incorrect.

Blood Moon - this is bad main. it does almost nothing against zoo, goblins, 4 color top, Sneak and tell, fish ... the list goes on. It's good against junk, B/W top, BWU top and NO Bant. That's pretty much it. Not even close to a big enough portion of the field to be running it main. Wasted spot.

Solitary Confinement - I run four. I can maybe see an argument for three. Two? Wrong. Would you run one copy of Show and Tell in Sneak & Tell? All it does is fuck your consistency and make you run shitty cards like runed halo and ...

Enlightened Tutor - Fine if you only play against decks that don't run blue. Otherwise, welcome to 2-for-1. How many decks in legacy run blue? Or right.

Chrome Mox - I'm not a huge fan of Chrome Mox, but hey, maybe that's just me. I haven't tested it extensively.

Horizon Canopy - Love this.


SB

Let me get this straight, four copies of Wheel of Sun and Moon and one Choke. So the expectation is more dredge than decks with blue in them? Really? WRONG.

More enlightened tutor, more runed halo, god what a fucking mess this board is.

No Mirri's Guile, 1 Oring (outs to emrakul) in the main and SB, this list is so much less than optimal it hurts to look at. The other Enchantress list at the 5k (that pozsgay beat in the last round for the t8 spot) just looked way way way better.