Until recently, I hadn't dropped a match to DarkHorizons/Rock/Junk styled decks. I had changed my deck a bit prior to this last tournament, and it was the first time I lost to the deck.. Coincidence, perhaps, I didn't have the best draws, but we'll see.
Keys to the match that I had noticed prior were Submerge, Kira, and spell pierce helped quite a bit. If you play a build with maindeck Echoing Truth it helps immensely. Nothing like resetting a pair of knights during combat or at the end step to open up for an alpha strike. Submerge is key for obvious reasons, putting Goyf or Knight on top and shuffling it away in response to a fetch or KotR activation to keep them threat light. Kira is golden as it forces them to find Karakas + a removal spell to turn their removal back on against the rest of your team.
Wastes and B2B (if you run it) are also strong in this matchup. Though I cannot comment on Eva Green, I haven't played this match at all with merfolk.
Team Albany: What's Legacy?
You cannot know the sweetness of Victory, without first dwelling in the agony of Defeat.
Just to make sure im not dumb, the strategy for this deck is....
turn 1 land and vial
turn two some merfolk with counter back up
turn three lord, more counters for thier spells,
and so on and so on, with face beating being the general idea?
Or is it more complicated than this, because i seem to miss the idea sometimes.
Actually the ideal hand is often turn 1 vial, turn 2 standstill assuming the opponent did nothing significant turn 1.
In reality you don't have that many counters, so you have to pick and choose what is worth countering. Game 1 you can usually counter anything that targets your vial (if you have one) or one of your lords. Game 2 you need to be a little reserved with counters, and ideally counter any bad hate they side in.
My litmus test for what to counter usually boils down to "do I retain the tempo advantage if this resolves"? Vanilla enemy creatures I typically do not counter. They either chump, if I do not have a Lord of Atlantis in play or do nothing at all if I do.
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Not every build runs Standstill: mine, for example, don't. I think that Standstill is a in more card since shines in match ups you are already supposed to win (Bant, CounterTop, MUC and in general Blue-based decks) while it's almost a dead card against the difficult matchups (Goblin, Zoo as example).
More in general Standstill is a very powerfull card restrained by a very conditional sitiuation, beign you have threat(s) on the board while your opponent doesn't (or the ones he has are inferior). If you manage to satisfy this condition then is a strong card, otherwise is a dead card.
Personal I prefer consistency so I play something like 2 Kira and 3 Merfolk sovereign in place of 4 standstill and 1 daze (I only need daze during the first 2 turns).
Greetings.
I cut Standstill at one time, but have come back to it. Some of the favorable matchups, in which you believe Standstill is "win more" become much more even if you cut Standstill. Standstill is what helps make those matchups favorable. For example, I took a Standstill-less Merfolk deck to a tourney and lost a frustrating match to ANT. I was really wishing that I had Standstill to draw three extra cards in that matchup. It would have made a big difference.
I see more than others do because I know where to look.
It's Brainstorm, it's not going to be "bad" in anything.Originally Posted by Justin
It's just not going to be better than the other options you have available for those slots.
Could anyone give me their oppinion on the following build?
It's basically 4eak's build but plays B2B on the main and Stifle instead of Wasteland to target their fetchlands (hoping we can prevent them from fetching for basic lands)
17 Island
4 Aether Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
3 Back to Basics
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
2 Merfolk Sovereign
SB:
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Vedalken Shackles
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Echoing Truth
2 Spell Pierce
Also, another strong point of stifle in this deck is that can be used against pridemage to protect our B2B (+ Shackles & Jitte)
Stifle is pretty conditional, don't like it maindeck, these slots could be for Mutavaults, where are your Mutavaults?. If you take me up on Mutas, you don't want to be running B2B, you could also be putting 3 mana to better use, like casting Reejereys, you want to do that instead. Consider Wastelands as well, they do good.
Also on another note, since Standstill is good in some and useless in some, I usually play 2 maindeck and 2 sideboard. They tend to appear just when I need them at that count. Pitch-able to Force too, sometimes.
If you really really really want to run Stifles, you could look at running Dreadnoughts in tandem, then you can go SURPRISE BITCH.
I don't think stifle is maindeckable if you are not playing wasteland and even then it has been less useful lately for me. I still am a fan of stnadstill. In the games it is good you want to see it all the time, but other matchup you just board it out. I don' tthink I would go below 3 main though if you goin down to a 2-of just cut it.
The Do Makers official Thing Sayer.
I'm looking to find a good sb and plan for a meta heavy in blue, including the mirror, and a fair amount of the blue decks being counterbalance builds with jace and tarmogoyf/firespout etc. This is my maindeck:
13 island
4 wasteland
4 mutavault
4 force of will
4 daze
4 standstill
4 aether vial
4 cursecatcher
4 silvergill adept
4 coralhelm commander
4 lord of Atlantis
4 merrow rejeery
3 spell pierce
Sb(what I have in mind at least):
2 echoing truth
2 threads of disloyalty
2 submerge
2 Llawan
2 mind harness
3 hydroblast
2 umezawa's jitte
The big issue for me (since I have played with this deck once in tournament play, and lost to enchantress and counterbalance with firespout, but won my other 4 rounds) is what to take out and what exactly to board in for the more common matchups.
What should be the plan vs.
Zoo
Goblins
Counterbalance
I was underwhelmed by back to basics, more and more decks are fetching basics due to them knowing we run wasteland. Any other sb cards I should consider for such a metagame?
666th post!!!!
Last edited by Joe_C; 02-25-2011 at 06:49 PM. Reason: 666th post \^/
TEAM AWESOME
Well, at least we smell better
Hi, i'm not and expert, just picked up the Deck, just saying, i run nearly the same Mainboard, just -1 Island -1 Pierce, instead i run 2 Jitte MB and one SB for Mirror/ Goblin, it also helps with not overextending against decks with sweepers because with jitte, a single Fish can be a big Threat. Downside is Jitte doesnt help so much against Zoo because tehy just burn/path the carriers, but i somehow have given up on that matchup.. seems unwinnable, so why even bother..
ah gratz on post count^^
I had to bump this up a land to 22 (14 island, 4 muta, 4 waste) since it just draws 1 land hands or non colored land hands way more often than I'd like with 20 land. Are people actually consistent with 20 lands?
TEAM AWESOME
Well, at least we smell better
I think 21 lands is the most common. And honestly a 1 land hand isn't that bad if you've got vial and expect it to get through.
I run 19 in mine and sometimes I feel I draw too much land.
Went 3-1 in a local tournament today. Played 4eak's list with minor changes.
4 Wasteland
15 Island
2 Mutavault
4 Aether Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
3 Merfolk Sovereign
1 Kira Great Glass-Spinner
SB:
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Island
1 Spell Pierce
1 Kira Great Glass-Spinner
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Echoing Truth
3 Back to Basics
R1 vs Elves
G1 opening hand: 3 Island, 1 Spell Pierce, 1 Daze, 1 Kira, 1 Ęther Vial (keep)
I open with Vial and get Coralhelm, Lord of Atlantis and Reejerey out pretty fast, easy win.
Side: Out 3 Spell Pierce. In 2 Echoing Truth, 1 Jitte
G2 opening hand: 2 Island, 2 Wasteland, 1 Coralhelm, 1 Sovereign, 1 Force (keep)
Draws Vial and my folks come out fast. Echoing bounces his blockers and Coralhelm flys inn the win.
2-0
R2 vs Zoo (landfall Zoo)
G1 opening hand: 2 Island, 2 Wasteland, 1 Kira, 1 Adept, 1 Coralhelm
He opens with fetch - taiga - nacatl. I waste. He fetches again for plateau, I waste. He fetches the third time, for taiga, I waste. But after my 3rd waste there is not so much to do. He pretty much beat me to death with nacatl, lynx, goyf and lavamancer.
Side: I don't remembere exactly except that b2b, kira, jitte, island went inn. Muta and daze went out.
G2 opening hand (no lands mull) then 1 island, 2 Wasteland, 1 Soveregin, 1 Adept, 1 b2b.
B2B is house in this matchup. It is very close but I misplay by playing Sovereign with 2 Islands and 2 Waste in play when I should played Kira, probably cost me the game.
0-2
R3 vs Elves (again...)
G1 opening hand: 2 Island, 1 Wasteland, 1 Lord, 1 Fow, 2 Daze
G2 opening hand: 3 Island, 1 Cursecatcher, 1 Daze, 1 Lord, 1 Vial
Not much to say, g1 merfolks came fast and strong. g2 jitte was MVP.
2-0
R4 vs CB Painter
G1 opening hand: 1 Waste, 2 Island, 1 Vial, 1 Coralhelm, 1 LoA, 1 Cursecatcher
turn 1 Ęther Vial saved the day
Side out: 2 muta, 1 kira, 1 sovereign. In: 2 Echoing Truth, 1 Spell Pierce, 1 island
G2 opening hand: 3 Island, 2 LoA, 1 Coralhelm, 1 FoW
LoA+LoA+Coralhelm. Todays best swimming team
2-0
Total 6-2
I will not play 2 Muta (or 3 or 4) in Standless version of folks again. It's more consistant with 4eak's version with 16 island, 4 waste. Kira was really helpful in the place of 1 sovereign. Need to test shackles. I will most likely just go back to 4eak's original version of this list and play that one.
Why change something that works...
Last edited by Daredevil; 03-05-2011 at 03:39 PM.
@ 4eak
I really like your deck... You have discussed all of your other card choices so why Echoing Truth vs. other options? Do you ever side them in conjunction with Jitte and/or Shackles? Bouncing tokens?
I just wanted to comment on your sideboarding choices against Zoo. I'm not sure why you should board out Daze when you lost the previous game and would be on the play for G2. I certainly understand boarding out Daze when on the draw. However, against a deck like Zoo, Daze is very strong when you go first. You can really disrupt their early game with it. I would board out Spell Pierce before Daze because the latter can hit their creature spells and do so without using mana.
I see more than others do because I know where to look.
@ Shough
Echoing Truth is a general catchall. It tends to be very good against many combo decks, including Dredge, TES (EtW), Charbelcher.dec. It is also good against the combo-prison decks, including Enchantress, Stax, Moat/Humility UW control decks, and even Thopter Foundry tokens. Once in a while, it does impressive things against ramp-like decks, where you are paying 2 mana to time walk them (in some ways).I really like your deck... You have discussed all of your other card choices so why Echoing Truth vs. other options? Do you ever side them in conjunction with Jitte and/or Shackles? Bouncing tokens?
As I said, it is a catchall against permanents that slip past your counters and that you can't afford to have in play.
I've also used it to stall games purposely. I don't like the way tournaments are structured, but I do use the rules to my advantage if I have no other choice. If I only have a few minutes left in the round against a bad matchup (say goblins or something like that), and if I would be happy with a draw, I will purposely use cards like echoing truth (terrible, in usual gameplay) to stall to time.
I think it would be mistake not to have at least 2.
peace,
4eak
I agree with boarding out some combination of daze. Depending on how many cards you bring in, I bring in 7-10 cards so I board out my dazes. They are not great if you don't have vial. You go land, they go cat... You can't really daze there and expect to win. Daze does cost mana, a land drop which can tempo you out of the game.
They are have a lot of one drops... BTW I don't see how you can beat zoo with that sb anyways
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