Chant vs silence split hasn't been properly discussed after the mystical tutor banning. I read the threat several times and already play TES since the plunge into darkness lists, so don't give me some comment about reading the thread/combo experience.
Anyways, I don't want a personal discussion with you. Your notes about chant/silence in the last post are good, thank you for that.
mmm...guys i'm going into lands deck and i know that tes is a horrible match up for me. So i wanted to ask you what don't you want to see against lands? What i mean, what is the best plan, if there's any, to stop you??
Chalice of the Void can be good against us. Wastelock can be pretty rough on TES too.Originally Posted by GoldenCid
Went 3-1 at a local monthly tourney today to take 3rd. Around 20 people showed up. I was using Bryant's 75 Plus 2 SURFING PIKACHU for goblin tokens
Round 1 Against Goblins
G1: I lose the die roll and see a turn 1 lackey. My turn I go off through Ad Nauseam.
SB +2 Echoing Truth +1 IGG -1 Infernal -1 Ponder -1 Brainstorm
G2: He gets port and vial. He ports me for like 4 turns, eventually builds up a board of Goblin Piledriver, Mogg War Marshall, and Lackey, and I decided to try and win. I go for Diminshing Returns and pass the turn because he doesn't quite have lethal yet. his turn he Cabal Therapies my Dark Ritual and Lion's Eye Diamond and Lackey pulls a Siege Gang in, and that's all she wrote.
G3: My hand has a couple Dark Rituals, a Ponder, land, Chant and some other stuff. I go land Ponder... reveals Dark Ritual, Ad Nauseam, fetch, I got kinda greedy and stacked it so i would draw the Dark Ritual, then draw Ad Nauseam with land below that. (he might have Wasteland) thankfully he does not, and i Ad Nauseam on turn 2 and Tendrils for 24
1-0 (2-1)
Round 2 against G/W Allies
G1: I know he is on allies and have had good luck with that matchup
*Flashback to SCG Kansas City where I tendrils my GW Allies opponent for 22 on turn 2 then next game go turn 1 Ad Nauseam on the draw with protection to end in a grapeshot for 22*
I keep a hand that goes ETW for 12 pikachus on turn 1, he assembles a board of allies (I have no clue what they do) and he eventually gets a guy that gives his allies pro red and turns em sideways.
SB +2 Echoing Truth -1 Infernal Tutor -1 Ponder
G2: I keep a hand with lots of mana and if i draw a cantrip or a tutor, i win. I throw a first turn duress at him to see trips vial and some random allies, bin a vial, he goes land vial, pass. I draw a Duress, contemplate about taking the second vial, but i do not, and spend three turns drawing off the top and getting my face smashed in by large allies...... Karma.
1-1 (2-3)
Round 3 against Bant Tempo
G1: He goes turn 1 Noble Hierarch, and i play Brainstorm pass. He goes turn 2 Knight of the Reliquary, pass. I see the opportunity here and chant him, then go through the motions with ad nauseam to tendrils for 22
SB +4 Pyroblast -1 Infernal Tutor -1 Ponder -1 brainstorm -1 Chrome Mox -1 Silence
G2: He plays land hierarch pass. I have ritual ritual nauseam in my hand but decide to duress and see no counterspells but i do see a wasteland which gets me worried. He goes wasteland, knight of the reliquary go. I draw for the turn, say "I'm Sorry" and ad nauseam to assemble a lethal tendrils. After the games he has questions about the deck so I answered them and walked him through a few goldfishes, nice kid.
2-1 (4-3)
Round 4 against Combo Elves
G1: I have played this guy before and know he has the ability to go off turn 2 and he knows me on storm. I keep a shakey hand with a 2 LED, 2 Burning Wish 2 Mox and a Ponder, draw a lotus petal, play out my hand into dim returns with UB floating, weasel into a Tendrils for 20. He says to me after the game "I guess your deck got faster"
SB +2 Echoing Truth -1 Infernal tutor -1 Ponder
G2: He goes wirewood symbiote pass. I empty out the warrens and 12 pikachus gear up and get ready to surf. His turn he plays a elvish visionary and passes. I draw Echoing Truth and Pikachus do their thang, he blocks one and i pass. In his upkeep I E. Truth his symbiote so he has to count one more mana to be able to go off, he doesnt and scoops.
3-1 (6-3)
All in all a great time, it sucked getting my teeth kicked in by allies, but such is life. I get a whopping 3 packs for my efforts but its not too bad since entry was $3.50.
Further than that, both EE (goblin tokens and multiple 0cc artifacts) and tabernacle (goblin tokens) may help you. Overall it will remain a horrible match up for lands indeed.
Thanks for the nice report, too bad you had to lose to Allies :-(
I was wondering though, why did you go for diminishing returns when you had a guaranteed IGG kill in your hand? Sure it got there, but it seems to me that killing him through returns is just taking more risk than necessary.
Thank you, and my line of thinking was that he kept a fast hand against me and I figured diminishing returns would do one of two things A) give me the win, since I was floating UB my chances were ok, or B) Keep him off of his fast combo hand while I shape a winning hand.
I do feel kinda like an idiot for not seeing the IGG kill, I guess I bottlenecked my thinking into Returns as my only out. Thank you for that observation!
Took 36th at DC with Bryant's 75 in the primer. Deck is GOOD. I need to stop screwing up with it. Matches were:
Gearhart (Thopters): loss in 3 (punt)
merfolk: win in 3 (he brought in mindbreak trap)
reanimator: win in 2
Evan Erwin (RB goblins): win in 2
AnT: win in 2
Top 8 girl (zoo): loss in 2 (she beat 14 goblins on turn 2 with me on the play) (punt on keeping hands)
Brian Coval (UW Landstill): win in 2
Rock: win in 2
Lewis Laskin (Lotus cobra bant something): loss in 3 (punt on pondering)
Might write a report later, but probably not worth it for a out-of-the-money finish.
Edit: Thanks for all the work you put into this Bryant.
Last edited by Tammit67; 02-28-2011 at 06:36 PM.
Thanks for the extensive update on the sideboarding plans. It really helped me to understand why what's there is there and what isn't isn't.
Seriously considering running an IGG main over the EtW. Half the time with EtW, I could just get a mana source and Ad Naus the next turn instead, or in the case try to kill outright. Is it that bad of an idea?
I don't think it is a terrible idea if you find yourself not needing EtW as much. Are there many blue decks in your meta? That is where EtW really shines.
We're in a meta right now where even the blue decks can answer Empty early on, as they are all either: playing Firespout (CB decks) or don't run CB (Tempo decks) with slow enough clocks to just grind with multiple duress effects to play through soft counters.
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Owner, Tales of Adventure Comics and Games, Coopersburg, PA
Round 4 legacy feature match: TES vs Goblins- See anything that I do wrong here?
http://www.ggslive.com/2011-event-vods/
I didn't have time to watch the whole thing, but when you were revealing with Ad Nauseam you could've stopped before that last card. Storm was five post-ad nauseam (I think, things are hard to see) and you could've gone: Gemstone mine, RoF, LP, LED, BW->Tendrils.
How do you guys play this opener on the play vs an unknown opponent in game 1:
Duress, Ponder, Brainstorm, Gemstone Mine, LED, Fetch, Ritual
Do you play a cantrip or Duress? Or wait for his first landdrop? I'm curious if you prefer to see the opponents hand or play safe against possible disruption such as Duress or Wasteland.
I would play ponder of a gemstone mine (on the play)
Gemstone Mine -> Ponder
Unless you draw an Infernal Tutor or a Burning Wish, you can't win turn 2, so Duressing on turn 1 is pretty pointless. If they are playing blue, they should not only have atleast 2 more draw steps, but also any Brainstorms to find a counterspell to interact with you. I'd lead with Gemstone over the Fetch so that Brainstorm -> Fetch is an option for turn 2. I don't like "playing safe" vs an unknown opponent... not only because you could just be playing around something they don't have, but also because TES is so much more powerful than what 99% of others decks do, that it's generally better to just set yourself up for the win.
How you play turn 2 depends on what you Ponder into, plus if they show you what they're playing turn 1.
Fetchland -> Ponder > Gemstone Mine -> Ponder, it saves the counter on Gemstone Mine and doesn't reveal what deck you're playing vs. unknown, controlling the information is probably more valuable than shuffling away a brick because if he plays Aether Vial instead of the Daze Merfolk (etc.) we get an opportunity to win outright.
The Fish player has access to the same counterspells in both situations. Daze and Force are both free to play. The line of play I suggested leaves Gemstone Mine with 1 counter on it for turn 3. If they Wasteland your Sea, you should be fine. You had a Ponder and Brainstorm (+ shuffle) to find another land. I think the benefit of shuffling away crap is better than having 1 extra counter on Gemstone Mine.
Alright, this sounds pretty appealing to me. I was just thinking about because it happened both to me lately, getting duressed after playing Ponder and wasted after playing Duress. Oh well, I guess that's something I just have to live with.
Would you play it differently if you hold only one land, let's say example hand -fetch +Chrome Mox?
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