[Deck] Meandeck MUD

[edgarps22]

When i first tested my Welder MUD variant, I tested Lotus Petal a lot and found that it really sucked. You can use it for some early acceleration, but more often than not, you need a consistent source of mana. Mox Opal is very important at times, especially for me I run a set of Thirsts in the deck for added consistency and more synergy with welder. And to note, I am not using Wastelands because I don't have them, and because of that, I am not using Crucibles as there is a no real reason to run them without the Wastelands. The list I am currently running is :

Manabase
3 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Gemstone Mine
3 Mox Opal

Artifacts
4 Grim Monolith
4 Voltaic Key
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Instants
4 Thirst For Knowledge

Creatures
4 Goblin Welder
4 Metalworker
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Myr Battlesphere

Sideboard

4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Pithing Needle
1 Contagion Engine
1 Triskelion
1 Masticore
2 Duplicant

I am actually going to take this to a tournament this weekend, so hopefully I will be able to report on what did and did not work.

[Oiolosse]

I have not tested this deck but have been working on something similar. I still play around with wildfire and so am welderless/metalworkerless. I love it that way. Welder and Metalworker are prime prime targets for removal and never seem to get there because of that.

Also, my mana-producing artifact suite is different (still use Monolith). I use Khalni Gem. It's awesome, it gives me the colored mana I need and it returns lands to my hand. This protects them from wildfire, nets me extra mana when dropping a sol land after I cast Khalni Gem and isn't a creature! Coalition Relic is also solid. Almost always gives me two mana and with voltaic key I can put extra counters for the first main phase mana.

I have been trying SDT for something of a draw engine/filter. This was last night and not actually against anyone but when toying around I found that the mana I needed to play around was a bit of a waste. The rearranging was helpful but I needed Voltaic Key for my other artifacts, notably Grim Monolith.

What am I doing, I can post details on the Wildfire thread.

[Nizmox]

Hi guys, what about Lotus Petal in place of Mox Diamond ? (suggested by one guy (undertakerma) on our forum)

In my testing I found lotus petal to be better than Mox Diamond. It is a great way to support Mox Opal and does not require discarding a land (a massive drawback in this deck I think).
Having to sacrifice never seemed to be much of a problem as I can tap Mox Opal first, then tap and sac the Petal. Usually you are generating the mana to cast another artifact so you can still use Mox Opal the following turn.

I'm still not sure if Petal is the definitive answer, but I feel sure it is better than Mox Diamond.

[manugl84]

After some testing, i´ve been comfortable with this list:

4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
2 Myr Battlesphere
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Goblin Welder

1 Crucible Of Worlds - Not really sure about this (though searchable). Maybe another steel hellkite, or Duplicant
4 Grim Monolith
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Mox Diamond
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Voltaic Key
3 Mox Opal

4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
1 Darksteel citadel
1 Mountain - Path to exile sucks

Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Tormod´s crypt
3 Trinisphere or Thorn of amethyst
2 Duplicant
4 Phyrexian Revoker

Thoughts?

[edgarps22]

So I took the list I posted previously to about a 20 person legacy tournament today and split 3rd/4th.

Round 1 was against Countertop, essentially a very close list to the one that took 1st at SCG Indy. I won game 1 because I simply got out wurmcoil and maintained a board presence. Game 2 he eventually won with a flooding of STP's and other key removal. Game 3 I had the nuts, a turn 3 Forgemaster turned into a turn 4 Sundering Titan, that munched on his manabase.

Round 2 was vs Eva Green. Game one I resolve a metalworker after about 3 edict effects, and then produce a steel hellkite and friends to finish. Game 2 was much faster with an early metalworker, no removal on his end, and lots of big robots to finish the job. Not a hard matchup.

Round 3 I faced Alluren. Game 1 I just got lucky that he did not find any real threats, or any allurens despite 3 brainstorms, but eventually sundering titan ate his manabase and that ended it. Game 2 he saw the nuts, and I did not find my pithing needle for cavern harpy. Game 3 I saw turn 1 metalworker, turn 2 forgemaster and steel hellkite, sometimes this deck just wins.

Round 4 Draw into top 4

Round 5 Affinity, my roomate. Game one he sees early inkmoth nexus and cranial plating, I saw no hellkite. Game 2 I board in Masticore, Contagion Engine, Triskelion, and 3 Pithing needles, not one thing shows up and I get stuck on one land as he overruns the board. Not the best matchup.

Overall the blue splash was very important for consistency, the manabase was still strong, only one game was I mana screwed in 4 real rounds of play. I found it hard at times as to which cards to sideboard out, but the deck is solid as can be, countertop was not that difficult to deal with, even with seeing 3 STP's I was still ahead the entire time, as counterbalance itself does almost nothing in the matchup. Discard does not do too much because of welder, and Alluren took a little bit of luck, I will admit, but early ramp is the key in that matchup.

[paeng4983]

interesting deck....
but..
how will this win against
enchantress?
dredge?
gobs?
U-decks with trygon?
etc?

[edgarps22]

I can speak to its power against goblins and trygon. Trygon hit play in my match against countertop, and it simply was not enough on its own. He needed a real support of either goyf, or just me not seeing a robot to do anything.

Against goblins, yeah Wurmcoil is a giant nightmare. It is at best a 3 for 1 for them, and if I get one swing or block with it, it changes the game entirely. They simply cannot deal with him easily.

As for enchantress I things like mindslaver would work and completely lock them out before they can do much. The thing with this deck is that everything comes out fast. An average game I play either wurmcoil, hellkite, or forgemaster by turn 3, almost every time, with and without metalworker. Sometimes I can do that with just welder.

Dredge can be slightly rough, but lodestone golem and thorn of amethyst out of the sideboard make that matchup better than you think. Also welding away your creatures removes bridges, and cards like Silent Arbiter exist, which basically tells dredge that they lose.

The deck is blazingly fast, my build brings in consistency, I mulliganed 2 times over 4 rounds of play, and it plays very powerful cards. If one is unanswered for much more than 1 turn, chances are that it will win the game.

[Pingu]

I piloted this list in a local tournament and make it 4-1 losing only to Cephalid Breakfast

4 Goblin Welder
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Wurmcoil Engine

1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Mindslaver

3 Lightning Greaves
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
1 Everflowing Chalice
2 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
1 Mountain
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn Amethist
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Duplicant
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard look's a litle weird because i couldn't get the 4th Revoker, it should have been like this
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn Amethist
1 Spine of Ish Sah
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sword of Fire and Ice

Matchups were in this order:

Dredge
I got pretty lucky in the 1st game because he started dredging and got nothing, i lock him to mindslaver and goblin welder, second game i win with blightsteel on 2nd turn.

Cephalid Breakfast
He won on his 2nd turn, if i played first i woud've won on my 2nd too, i can't remember well the second game but my metalworker got bounced on 2nd turn and he win in his 3rd turn.

Merfolks
I believe it's one of the easiest matchups, 1st game i started with welder that got countered, then metalworker that sticks, the next few turns i start dropping fattys that overrun is little fishes.
2nd game i started with welder on 1st turn with daze protection that sticked 2nd turn i dropped a sword of fire-ice and equip the little guy and start bashing killing a lord in the process.

High Tide
On my 4th turn i force him to start comboing, then blightsteel keep coming to the deck makes me stay with 3 cards in the deck including him, i sac 3 artifacts play the colossus and won right on the spot.
My 2nd game i mull to 5 and keep a hand without hate he eventually won on his 3rd or 4th turn
The 3rd game i mull to 6 and get a pretty sick hand, Lodestone Golem on my 1st turn, thorn amethist on the 2nd or 3rd.

Burn
1st game i mull to 3 and you know the rest (i pile shufled in every mulligan and all but i mean all of my hands didn't have a single land).
2nd game i got an early Wurmcoil and won without much trouble.
3rd game i mull to 6 and won on the 2nd turn.


I know i had 3 shittie matchups with decks that are bellow tier 1.5 but the deck proved to be very powerfull, most of the cards need to be answered on the spot, if not, the deck is going to make the oponent cry.
Card that surprised me the most was the single Everflowing Chalice, i keep 4 hands thanks to it, if it were a Mox diamond i would have mulligan, and only in 1 hand i wish it were a diamond to play the Welder.

[Dune Echo]

# 2 Welder Stax - Michele Terzi

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Wasteland

2 Mox Opal
4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo

3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Voltaic Key
3 Lightning Greaves

4 Goblin Welder
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Steel Hellkite
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Trinisphere
1 Citanul Flute
2 Duplicant
2 Steel Hellkite
1 Wurmcoil Engine


Welder Mud - Flavio Pecorone, 7th place

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Wasteland

1 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal
4 Grim Monolith

2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Voltaic Key
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Crucible of Worlds

4 Goblin Welder
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Duplicant
1 Steel Hellkite
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
2 Myr Battlesphere

Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Sword of Fire And Ice
3 Trinisphere
1 Spine of Ish Sah
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Duplicant
1 Platinum Angel

[KnightElite]

I tried the original list that Mike played in Indianapolis in a local tournament here, and unfortunately went only 2-2. I found in testing the night before that Mox Diamond seemed terrible (two more lands might sort this out), and tried Lotus Petal instead of two moxes, which was decent, but not ideal. I also played a single Spine of Ish-Sah in the sideboard, which was amazing, and I am considering playing maindeck. There's another event next weekend, and I think I will play this again, though there is at least one guy in the meta who plays Energy Flux in his sideboard, which I lost to in the tournament. Maybe Red Elemental Blast to beat that?

[Amon Amarth]

Energy Flux is pretty easy to beat, Metalworker alone answers it. Or just pay for a fatty or two and that should get you there.

Lately, I've been trying to fit in another land or two as well. Currently they are Dust Bowl and Crystal Vein. Also I've been changing up the number of Mox Diamonds and have been running between 3, 2 and 1. I've replaced Hellkite main because I've never really wanted to cast him or tutor for him. Duplicant, however, is great even if he "only" takes out Goyfs. Which is huge. I made the switch and have been happy with it.

[NukeMoose]

Energy Flux is pretty easy to beat, Metalworker alone answers it. Or just pay for a fatty or two and that should get you there.

Lately, I've been trying to fit in another land or two as well. Currently they are Dust Bowl and Crystal Vein. Also I've been changing up the number of Mox Diamonds and have been running between 3, 2 and 1. I've replaced Hellkite main because I've never really wanted to cast him or tutor for him. Duplicant, however, is great even if he "only" takes out Goyfs. Which is huge. I made the switch and have been happy with it.

I second the Duplicant. I finally got around to testing him this weekend and Welding duplicant just stomps on so many decks it's hilarious. Plus this deck can really use an out to Emrakul or Blazing Archon.

[Ubiquitous Druid]

Instead of Thirst for Knowledge, why not play Intuition?

Intuition may not be "pure" card advantage, but always gets the card you need to either your graveyard or hand at instant speed. Turn 1: Welder, Turn 2: Intuition is pretty bonkers, regardless of the pile.

[anonymos]

As for enchantress I things like mindslaver would work and completely lock them out before they can do much. The thing with this deck is that everything comes out fast. An average game I play either wurmcoil, hellkite, or forgemaster by turn 3, almost every time, with and without metalworker. Sometimes I can do that with just welder.

Mindslaver targets. You may not have the 10 mana needed to play and activate slaver in one turn. The most you can really do to them is sacrifice sterling groves and break fetch lands. Maybe you'll get to attack with an Argothian.

If you want to beat enchantress play Ward of Bones. I'm a long time enchantress player. This is how I beat my deck when I was testing. It also works to keep non-vial creature decks slowed down to your pace, keeps lands from getting too far ahead (other than Manabond), and generally keeps mana hungry decks starved because all they get is 1-3 lands...and lots of artifacts.

[NukeMoose]

Instead of Thirst for Knowledge, why not play Intuition?

Intuition may not be "pure" card advantage, but always gets the card you need to either your graveyard or hand at instant speed. Turn 1: Welder, Turn 2: Intuition is pretty bonkers, regardless of the pile.

Although I think adding another color puts too much of a strain on the manabase, I would choose TtK because it's solid without an active Welder. Sometimes the deck needs gas, which TfK provides nicely. I would consider Thoughtcast before Intuition, as the deck performs well off it's own raw power without the need for trying to cram more welder tricks in.

[Ubiquitous Druid]

Although I think adding another color puts too much of a strain on the manabase, I would choose TtK because it's solid without an active Welder. Sometimes the deck needs gas, which TfK provides nicely. I would consider Thoughtcast before Intuition, as the deck performs well off it's own raw power without the need for trying to cram more welder tricks in.

It's not just for Welder Tricks though. It's an instant speed Demonic Tutor for anything that you have at least 3 of in your deck. It has a ton of raw power. Goblin Welder is just gravy.

[edgarps22]

Ok now that is an awesome piece of tech I had not seen yet. I'll be trying to get some and test it out thanks for the tip. And yeah I regularly face enchantress in my meta, Mindslaver works generally because I can get it down and active faster than an enchantress deck can stabilize, especially with forgemaster picking away at them with a variety of tools. This one just makes life much much better, and in a few other matches too.

On Thirst Vs Intuition. I used to run 4 Thirst 1 Intuition .. I never wanted to see Intuition.. ever. Its a cantrip, and usually when I needed it, I needed more than 1 card, so Thirst was preferable. Thirst is the main reason to splash blue, and its a good reason, since it gives some extra gas, consistency, and makes welder better. the welder part is just gravy, the rest is what matters. In my last tournament I barely had to mulligan, that is a huge problem for the rest of the lists. I think Thirst solves that issue. At the very least it solved it for me.

[KnightElite]

I haven't tried the blue splash yet (will likely do that this weekend at a local legacy event), but it seems like you could setup some fairly decent packages with Intuition that would make it worth running, though a lot of them are only really cool with Welder.

But you could do something like fetch up Crucible of Worlds, Academy Ruins, and whatever artifact you want as a guaranteed way of getting it eventually, though this is admittedly somewhat slow. Most of the cool packages where Intuition really shines seem to involve already having a Goblin Welder on the battlefield, since then you can just put all your cards onto the battlefield from either graveyard or by casting them.

I'll try and brew something up tonight and see if there's a compelling enough reason to try that instead of Thirst for Knowledge.

[NukeMoose]

I haven't tried the blue splash yet (will likely do that this weekend at a local legacy event), but it seems like you could setup some fairly decent packages with Intuition that would make it worth running, though a lot of them are only really cool with Welder.

But you could do something like fetch up Crucible of Worlds, Academy Ruins, and whatever artifact you want as a guaranteed way of getting it eventually, though this is admittedly somewhat slow. Most of the cool packages where Intuition really shines seem to involve already having a Goblin Welder on the battlefield, since then you can just put all your cards onto the battlefield from either graveyard or by casting them.

I'll try and brew something up tonight and see if there's a compelling enough reason to try that instead of Thirst for Knowledge.

This deck lives off it's draw step-which is a lot to ask sometimes. It definitely has some consistancy problems as you can often be stuck drawing blanks after your first 2 guys get dealt with. A demonic tutor is nice, but still just a 1 for 1 trade that can sometimes be too slow. What it wants is card selection/advantage which is what Thoughtcast and TfK (or even Gifts Ungiven) can provide. However none of these options that I tried were worth messing with the manabase. Darksteel Citadel/mono red becomes almost as consistent as U/R just because you're not dealing with more colored mana issues.

However last night I tried Fact or Fiction in replace of Lodestone Golem and it performed very well. It's pretty agreed that FoF is a bomb itself where TfK or Intuition are more utility cards. Fof only costs 1 more, always nets +2CA where TfK is condition. FoF is better at digging and filling your graveyard. Not to mention FoF is proportionally awesome to however many bombs you are already running, which we have no shortage of. It's the first blue card I've tried that felt like the advantages of another color outweigh the disadvangates of the manabase to support a draw spell.

This is what I'm running right now, and it's been doing very well.

4 Grim Monolith
3 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal
3 Voltaic Key
3 Lightning Greaves

4 Goblin Welder
4 Metalworker
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sundering Titan
1 Duplicant

4 Fact or Fiction

4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod

[KnightElite]

Seems like a very cool idea, I think I will try Fact or Fiction instead of Thirst for Knowledge in my build as well.

I'll be running this in a Legacy tournament tomorrow, and we'll see how it does:

4 Grim Monolith
2 Mox Diamond
3 Mox Opal
4 Voltaic Key
2 Lightning Greaves

4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Metalworker
4 Goblin Welder
1 Myr BattleSphere
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan

1 Sculpting Steel
1 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Fact or Fiction

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Crystal Vein
1 Academy Ruins

And the following sideboard:

3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Ward of Bones
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Duplicant
2 Sword of Fire and Ice


Maybe I should cut the tops for something else though, if I'll be running Fact or Fiction anyway. I decided Trinisphere is better than the alternatives in my meta due to at least one guy playing elves, and not much other combo (at least not at the last event 3 weeks ago), and Steel Hellkite and Spine of Ish Sah are because there were a lot of people playing control decks with Moat and Ensnaring Bridge maindeck. Sculpting Steel takes the place of the second Myr Battlesphere for fetching, and seems like it is ridiculously awesome to weld out when it's copying Spine, since then you can get it back in your hand and copy something else. Maybe that's just too cute, but I figure I'll try it out and see how it does.