lol, sup deezy
seriously though, i'm brand new to this deck...just kinda fell into most of it and decided to build it...
list
4x Scrubland
4x Marsh Flats
4x Wasteland
3x Swamp
3x Plains
1x Karakas
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Bojuka Bog
4x Aether Vial
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
4x Mother of Runes
3x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Serra Avenger
4xDark Confidant
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Vindicate
62 cards...looking to cut 2. I'm currently looking at going down a Stoneforge Mystic and possibly a land (Bojuka Bog to sideboard) chime in, gimme some valid reasons at your suggestions, otherwise my head's gonna 'splode, also i have toyed with the idea of dropping the 4 vials for another land (mishra's factory, horizon canopy, or another fetch) and the 4th Vindicate. holla back
your list looks very similar to the List Gene Richtsmeier played in Kansas City SCG here
maybe you find something helpful in it.
That was actually an article i read a couple times for some insight, however i couldn't justify not running hymn to tourach, especially after seeing the final match from SCG Edison. granted that was BWG Rock, but these decks play a similar disruption game, also i had to change the manabase up a bit. On a side note, i know a lot of people don't like vial in this deck or claim that it's not deadguy with vial...why? Even though i don't know if i want to keep vial in, it is VERY nice to have instant speed targeted disruption from sculler.
this is what I am testing at the moment
// Lands
6 [HOP] Swamp
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [P2] Plains
4 [R] Scrubland
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
// Creatures
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [GTW] Vampire Nighthawk
// Spells
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
4 [OV] Swords to Plowshares
2 [MBS] Go for the Throat
3 [ARE] Diabolic Edict
2 [JGC] Vindicate
1 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
biggest changes are no gatekeeper and 3 moms 3 edicts for that. IoK switched against TS.
Will provide you with testing results later
question I asked myself lately, are Swords really superior to paths in this deck. I mean getting the opponent a basic land is huge (especially when you are running Wasteland) but stalling back our beat-down plan isn't this good either, cause our guys aren't biggest folks around (no one more than 2 Power means 2-3 hits to set back the lifegain of a sworded Goyf).
Swords is far better than Path. There shouldn't be much debate there. The problem is not Path v Swords, but why aren't you running Goyf? It looks like you're very low on creatures. I've found decks like this require the perfect mix of creatures and disruption. Too little disruption and your creatures die to their control. Too few creatures and your lack of pressure means they can get back into the game after your disruption.Originally Posted by Leto
You have 9 spells that only kill creatures. That seems far too excessive to me. Especially in a deck with 2x Vindicate and Jitte to boot. I would expect you to run out of creatures and sit there with removal/disruption in hand wishing you could use the equipment in play.
Play more and better creatures and you'll see that the life gained by Sword is insignificant and your equipment isn't sitting around doing nothing because you have no creatures.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
so does no one consider spectral lynx anymore? it can chump any goyf or knight all day, can't be blocked by progenitus, shrugs off firespout, and regenerates for cheap...plus they're like 50 cents each. I considered them at first to fight creature decks, lynx plus a sword or mom would be a headache.
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I feel like paying one extra mana for Mirran Crusader is justified. You gain Pro-Black, a toughness and Double Strike (you do lose Regen, but w/e).
I would think Phyrexian Crusader would be better than Mirran crusader if your looking for a resilient beater. Pro red and white (immune to the vast majority of removal) and in combat he makes creatures smaller before they can even do damage. The infect is kinda annoying outside blocking though :/
EDIT: I didn't think of the swords effects stacking for mirrian crusader. Thats pretty ridiculous and probably makes him a better option if you need a 3cc beater. The phyrexian crusaders probably still a better option if your looking for resilience though. I guess the real question is: are either crusader better than Vampire nighthawk? Cause I'm assuming you would have to replace him, not make room for another 3cc creature elsewhere.
excellent point, the double strike would cause some ridiculous equipment triggers also.8 damage + gain 6 life+2 creatures back SoLaS or 4 damage+2 cards drawn SoFaI...hmm that sounds quite tasty the loss of regen would hurt vs. zoo or gobbos w/o mom or sword, but w/e i'm just throwin out ideas anyways, thanks for the insight
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I understand that this isn't really Deadguy Ale, but it kinda is also. I've been testing this list I put together and it's been running really good.
The Sign in Blood and Beseech the Queen is great in this deck!
3 Gerrad's Verdict
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Phyrexian Crusader
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
1 Damnation
2 Liliana Vess
2 Reanimate
3 Sign in blood
3 Beseech the Queen
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Marsh Flats
10 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Scrublands
2 Plains
Trying to trade into power!!!
Hit me up if you have any unlimited power that isn't creased. Maybe we can make a deal.
No. No, it's not. This deck is terrible and not even close to competitive.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
At least we are all being constructive.
Did some playtesting last night. Seems the deck does great against GWB Rock, which should be good since SCG Edison had 4 in the top 16 and 3 in the top 8. Watch out for explosives and deed (duh) the one bojuka bog i MD was relevant as the games went long enough to draw it and shrink goyf/knight.
I was trading games with goblins (mom+SoFaI are your outs) though i still feel disadvantaged in this matchup
didn't do so hot vs. zoo.
will continue the gauntlet later vs. spring tide, merfolk, belcher, and dredge.
how is everyone else's matchups for this archetype and what cards do you feel are relevant in the even or less favored matchups to pull them out?
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This comment made me think up this list:
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Mother of Runes
4x Vindicate
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Aether Vial
3x Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize
1x Umezawa’s Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
4x Wasteland
4x Scrubland
4x Marsh Flats
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Swamp
1x Bayou
1x Plains
1x Forest
Easily splashes a tiny hint of green for Goyf, but mainly I imagine he'll get Vialed in. I'm gunna try this. Anyone here experimented with something similar? If so, what were your results and opinions?
Wow so all the testing and games that I won must mean nothing. Next time I'll just send you my deck list and ask what you think.
Trying to trade into power!!!
Hit me up if you have any unlimited power that isn't creased. Maybe we can make a deal.
This is very similar to what I'm running. Very similar in deed. I absolutely love it. I'm still not sure about going with a 3cmc vs a 2cmc in your Nighthawk slot just to keep my Vial active the whole game, but that's up in the air.
Testing against sealed pools and SoM block decks doesn't count.
There is no way a pile like that is doing anything against real decks. Let's see what problems there are:
Phyrexian Crusader in a non-Poison deck. Check.
Lillian Vess. Check
18 Land in a deck with Vess and plenty of 3 drops. Check.
1 whole Scrubland in a deck that wants to cast white spells. Check.
Sign in Blood. Check.
Beseech the Queen. Check.
No Bob. Check.
Random Singletons. Check.
There's no fixing this deck without starting over. It looks like a pile of the Black and White cards you had laying around. If you want to send me a decklist for approval, feel free, but don't be surprised when I tell you it's bad.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
I feel the same way. I would prefer to run a 2cc creature there, but I believe the lifelink is very necessary, especially if you run Thoughtseize over IoK. (I currently use IoK b/c I don't own TS. Gunna wait til they rotate out of Extended)
I mentioned this a few pages ago, but I played a guy who ran 4x Dark Depths and 4x Vampire Hexmage. That's about the only thing I'd consider dropping the Nighthawks for, but even still, it's probably inferior. Sure is fun though...
What other 2cc drops might contend for the spot? Too bad you can't vial in a gatekeeper AND kick it :)
Also, I want to squeeze 2x Sensei's Divining Tops back in. Ideas how? I'd probably go -1 Vindicate to SB, -1 Nighthawk?
Edit: Oh yah, Serra Avenger would go well there.
Serra Avenger. Epochrasite could be sexy, too.
Squadron Hawk has been surprisingly good for me. The ability to keep spitting out dudes is really nice. It makes the deck more equipment reliant, but Jitte on a hawk is still two jitte counters.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
I think it's still too early to count out Phyrexian Crusader just yet. Strictly compared to his Mirran counterpart, he looks pretty good:
-better protection colors
-still a 5-turn clock
-survives combat with a 3/3 instead of trading
So far in testing, PC has been an absolute house against Zoo, a much better defensive choice than Nighthawk so far. MC has been nuts once equipped, the problem is how much removal he tends to eat in response to equipping.
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