[Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

[x8eikdls]

Alright, this sounds pretty appealing to me. I was just thinking about because it happened both to me lately, getting duressed after playing Ponder and wasted after playing Duress. Oh well, I guess that's something I just have to live with.

Would you play it differently if you hold only one land, let's say example hand -fetch +Chrome Mox?

I'd play it the same way. Ponder can see 4 cards to find another land, Brainstorm can only see 3. Duressing first is the worst option here because if they do have the Wasteland, and you dont rip a land next turn, you have to imprint Mox with Brainstorm to cast Ponder.

[Final Fortune]

The Fish player has access to the same counterspells in both situations. Daze and Force are both free to play. The line of play I suggested leaves Gemstone Mine with 1 counter on it for turn 3. If they Wasteland your Sea, you should be fine. You had a Ponder and Brainstorm (+ shuffle) to find another land. I think the benefit of shuffling away crap is better than having 1 extra counter on Gemstone Mine.

I meant Cursecatcher, if he drops Aeither Vial instead of Cursecatcher it's a win for us.

[bruizar]

I just wanted to chime in real quick.

I play vintage and always hate/fear playing against TPS. More than playing against Dredge, the TPS matchup is like playing with a gun on your head. Any moment can be your last, and that really alters your decisions and playing comfort.

I told a dedicated storm player who is a friend of mine to stop playing creature based decks in legacy. I told him "comeon! you´re a vintage player! You know creatures suck. Unless they provide some sort of utility, they're crap! Legacy is a format with plays like land, nacatl, go! The format is ripe to punish these silly creature decks." He took up ANT and in testing, completely pwnd me. I started getting flashbacks from the horrors of the TPS matchups in Vintage and decided that enough is enough! I took up ANT myself and the deck has been so absolutely amazing to me. I am freed. Freed from the fear of having to face storm, and free to scare others with this scourge called Tendrils of Agony.

I joined the dark side.

EDIT: What keeps storm in check in Vintage is Workshop / Resistors. Storm is the top of the food chain when it comes to decks. No longer do I play as the underdog. No longer do I inflict pain to myself by playing with subpar creatures. No longer do I play decks that are fair.

[lorddotm]

I just wanted to chime in real quick.

I play vintage and always hate/fear playing against TPS. More than playing against Dredge, the TPS matchup is like playing with a gun on your head. Any moment can be your last, and that really alters your decisions and playing comfort.

I told a dedicated storm player who is a friend of mine to stop playing creature based decks in legacy. I told him "comeon! you´re a vintage player! You know creatures suck. Unless they provide some sort of utility, they're crap! Legacy is a format with plays like land, nacatl, go! The format is ripe to punish these silly creature decks." He took up ANT and in testing, completely pwnd me. I started getting flashbacks from the horrors of the TPS matchups in Vintage and decided that enough is enough! I took up ANT myself and the deck has been so absolutely amazing to me. I am freed. Freed from the fear of having to face storm, and free to scare others with this scourge called Tendrils of Agony.

I joined the dark side.

EDIT: What keeps storm in check in Vintage is Workshop / Resistors. Storm is the top of the food chain when it comes to decks. No longer do I play as the underdog. No longer do I inflict pain to myself by playing with subpar creatures. No longer do I play decks that are fair.

Are you playing ANT or TES?

[bennotsi]

I joined the dark side.

Nice post! I felt exactly the same three months ago :-)

By the way I would like to start a discussion on the match up against Sneak Attack / Show and Tell decks. I've played about 40 games against a friend of mine and I think I've won at most 17 or so.
He doesn't play show and tell, but 4 intuition to find whatever he needs, sneak attack/emrakul/force of will. It's really like a combo deck, but with the extra space to play 4 Force of Will and 4 Daze. He doesn't have a sideboard yet, so basically we only tested "game 1". But the point is: I find it very hard to beat his fast clock combined with counterspells, how do you guys feel about this matchup?

[bruizar]

Are you playing ANT or TES?

I played ANT but I still have to go through all the different storm decks. I still have to make the choice between ANT, TES, SI, but it all comes down to the same thing. Storm is one of the few decks that really feel like you're wielding a weapon with such a high raw power. I am not experienced enough yet to make a good choice between ANT TES and SI, but will continue to test all the variants to gain a better understanding of these decks.

[GoldenCid]

Hi guys! I sat to goldfish and practice with this deck. I goldfished 6-7 hands and 5 of them (interestinly) are the following I want you to tell me if they where risky to keep or if they were clear keep hands for a real game.
I considered that i had to win in t3 (without playing disrruption spell) or t4 maximun (playing a disrruption spell) and that i'm always on the play.

Hand 1

1 Lotus petal
1 Duress
1 Tendrils
1 Rite of flame
1 Gemstone mine
1 Brainstorm
1 B. Wish

Result: Go off in t3 with wish and EtW.

Hand 2

2 Infernal tutor
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
2 Gemstone mine

Result: Go off in t3 with ADN + ToA


Hand 3

1 Duress
2 Preordain
2 Rite of flame
1 Lotus petal
1 Gemstone mine

Result: Go off in t2 with wish + Empty the warrens (x14 tokens)

Hand 4

1 Gemstone mine
2 Rite of flame
1 LED
2 Petal
1 Duress

Result: Go off with Diminishing returns (insane) + ToA

Hand 5

1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Duress
1 Wish
2 Gemstone mine
1 Polluted delta

Result: Go off in t4 via EtW x 14 tokens.

Well that's it. Everytime i could i tried to go off via Tendrils which is a direct kill, but not always was possible. What do you recommend me??

The list:

4 Infernal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain (*)
4 Ponder
4 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Polluted Delta
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Burning Wish

SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Diminishing Returns
SB: 3 Dark Confidant
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 4 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Grapeshot / Sadistic sacrament (*)
SB: 1 Shattering Spree / Meltdown (*)
SB: 1 Ill-Gotten Gains

(*) Could i play something better in that slot?

4 Pyroblast + Dark Confidant is too much for the control / CB match up?

Thx you all in advance!!

[Tammit67]

I think your Dark confidant slots are better served as other things. Not having IGG in board seems like a travesty, as does missing out on K grip/wipe away and another discard spell. Without IGG, you have enormous problems should your life total go down too far, relying on a Tendrils to Ad naus or Dim. Ret. with mana floating. IGG is simply better.

[GoldenCid]

I think your Dark confidant slots are better served as other things. Not having IGG in board seems like a travesty, as does missing out on K grip/wipe away and another discard spell. Without IGG, you have enormous problems should your life total go down too far, relying on a Tendrils to Ad naus or Dim. Ret. with mana floating. IGG is simply better.

Oh! My bad, i actually run IGG, but i don't know it wasn't in the list.
It shold be -1 confidant + 1 IGG.

Sorry!!

[x8eikdls]

Hi guys! I sat to goldfish and practice with this deck. I goldfished 6-7 hands and 5 of them (interestinly) are the following I want you to tell me if they where risky to keep or if they were clear keep hands for a real game.
I considered that i had to win in t3 (without playing disrruption spell) or t4 maximun (playing a disrruption spell) and that i'm always on the play.

Hand 1

1 Lotus petal
1 Duress
1 Tendrils
1 Rite of flame
1 Gemstone mine
1 Brainstorm
1 B. Wish

Result: Go off in t3 with wish and EtW.

Hand 2

2 Infernal tutor
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
2 Gemstone mine

Result: Go off in t3 with ADN + ToA


Hand 3

1 Duress
2 Preordain
2 Rite of flame
1 Lotus petal
1 Gemstone mine

Result: Go off in t2 with wish + Empty the warrens (x14 tokens)

Hand 4

1 Gemstone mine
2 Rite of flame
1 LED
2 Petal
1 Duress

Result: Go off with Diminishing returns (insane) + ToA

Hand 5

1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Duress
1 Wish
2 Gemstone mine
1 Polluted delta

Result: Go off in t4 via EtW x 14 tokens.

I'd mull hands 3 and 4.

The only card that will make hand 3 live is Burning Wish (or the 1 of EtW). Infernal Tutor is semi-dead because you probably can't get hellbent before blowing your Gemstone Mine because you have 2x Preordain and a Duress. Even if you draw the Burning Wish, you still need another mana source to go BW-> EtW. Despite having the Lotus Petal, you're also in pretty bad shape if they Wasteland the Gemstone Mine.

Hand 4 is just awful. It's all mana, no business. You should never keep a hand like that at 7.

[Pulp_Fiction]

That actually brings up a good point. And this is something that has been talked about rarely in the thread. I would also mull those hands. I don't think that comes with playstyle, I think it just comes down to common sense, even having 1-2 AdN, 4 BW, 1 EtW, and 4 IT you are still rolling the dice. Without any relevant action spells why would you keep a 7 card hand that looks like that, now a 5 card hand is different, but 7??? No. Then again, I mulligan more than most when I play combo because I always assume the top 3 cards are not gonna get me there and I act accordingly.

Now, I will also throw away 7 card hands that are all acceleration and a single BS or Ponder in them. I know certain players like Bryant will usually keep these, and that is playstyle, but I rarely leave anything to chance, and I would rather mull to 5 than keep a hand of all acceleration and a Ponder. BUT I will keep a 6 card hand that looks like that because going to 5 in any storm deck (besides DDFT and Belcher) is usually very hurtful. Now I don't actually know the math on this, but I have played enough combo to know 5 card hands suck balls, especially in TES where I am forced to get lucky or throw out the turn 3-5 DReturns trying to get there since EtW is generally going to be quite small. I guess I always mull a 7 with all acceleration and Ponder because I find I don't get there at much, but an opening 6 that looks like that seems a lot better than going down to 5 where you realistically aren't going to get good draws. I guess rather than relying on the top 3 I would rather see 6 new cards but 5 feels like a danger zone in TES.

EDIT: I would keep the 3rd hand if it had a fetchland, Sea, or a City of Brass instead of the Mine.

[ninja_attack]

Now, I will also throw away 7 card hands that are all acceleration and a single BS or Ponder in them.

Would you mulligan this away if you are on the draw? If you know your opponent is playing discard, would you keep a hand with acceleration and a brainstorm?

[x8eikdls]

Would you mulligan this away if you are on the draw? If you know your opponent is playing discard, would you keep a hand with acceleration and a brainstorm?

I'd also mull it on the draw.

For the second question, it depends on the rest of the hand. If I was on the play vs BWG Junk, with hand 4 (-1 Duress, +1 Brainstorm or Ponder), I would keep it. My line of play would be: Gemstone Mine -> Brainstorm/Ponder. Mainphase Brainstorm is usually bad, but in this case, we have a turn 1 win if we draw any business spell. If the BS or Ponder whiffs, I'd play out all the artifact mana so that they aren't exposed to Thoughtseize/Hymn and go from there. I would mull the hand on the draw, because if they have a turn 1 Thoughtseize for the Brainstorm/Ponder, we're in pretty bad shape.

I wouldn't keep a hand like this, though: Gemstone Mine, City of Brass, Brainstorm, 2x Rite of Flame, Chrome Mox, Dark Ritual. We need to hit a business spell and an additional source of mana to go off turn 1, which I don't like. Our acceleration is all spell based, so we can't play out artifact mana to protect it from discard (meaning when we find a business spell, we're no longer guaranteed to have the required mana for it). We do have the option of playing Brainstorm in response to their discard, but look at our hand... what are you protecting? Redundant acceleration? The busines spell you hope is in the top 3?

[Pulp_Fiction]

I'd mull that shit on the draw or the play. Relying on the top 3-4 cards of your library w single draw spell seems totally wrong 2 me with your opening 7 cards. I will mull everytime in the hopes of a better hand/better setup. Only time I will keep that is when I mull to 6 cards and see a land + acceleration and a single BS/Ponder. Doesn't matter the play or the draw I will keep it cause I feel it is better than a random 5 in TES but I will always mull that starting 7 with all accel and a single cantrip.

[Final Fortune]

So in order to keep a hand in TES, the hand must have either Ponder + Cantrip or at least 1 threat? If that's true, is running the 4/4/1 of IT/Wish/Nauseam enough to ensure the minimal number of necessary mulligans?

[Bryant Cook]

I keep Brainstorm and six cards that make mana any day.

[egosum]

Keeping that hand against a "blind" opponent seems a mistake. You have no game plan at all and having all "eggs in one brainstorm" means taht if you see nothing n the next three cards you would lose that game n(unless you are facing a heavy control player, and even in this situation you will lose too much tempo).

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[ComboMan]

Keeping that hand against a "blind" opponent seems a mistake. You have no game plan at all and having all "eggs in one brainstorm" means taht if you see nothing n the next three cards you would lose that game n(unless you are facing a heavy control player, and even in this situation you will lose too much tempo).

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

If u have 6 cards that make mana, and a brainstorm in your hand, you can draw-go the first 2 turns and then play it...
U will be able to manage 5 cards instead 3, and increasing the chance of drawing a "business" spell.
Probably you will get a fetchland too.. (if you don't see any card that you need)

The point is...U can combo in the turn 3 with that hand...consistently

[Pulp_Fiction]

Thats true in goldfishing, but against a real opponent doing stuff ... Unlessyour hand is like: LED, LED, Petal, Petal, Rit or something like that, that Brainstorm on turn 3 is unlikely to be relevant. But honestly, I have never held onto BS in TES and not playing your cantrips until turn 3 just seems wrong.

To the initial discussion, 6 accel+1 cantrip is all playstyle, I have a lot of gamble in me and play a lot of poker, but I will never keep this hand. Knowing if you miss ... the game is essentially over against gobbos or Zoo, and especially if the matchup is an easy one (like gobbos or Zoo). I will throw it back all day long. I will keep a 6 card hand that looks like this but never 7. It just feels like to much of an uncertainty and I am not going to lose a matchup I know I should be winning because I kept an iffy hand. Your deck is better than theirs, mulligan iffy hands and make the deck work for you rather than roll the dice in uncertain situations.

[Bryant Cook]

Thats true in goldfishing, but against a real opponent doing stuff ... Unlessyour hand is like: LED, LED, Petal, Petal, Rit or something like that, that Brainstorm on turn 3 is unlikely to be relevant. But honestly, I have never held onto BS in TES and not playing your cantrips until turn 3 just seems wrong.

To the initial discussion, 6 accel+1 cantrip is all playstyle, I have a lot of gamble in me and play a lot of poker, but I will never keep this hand. Knowing if you miss ... the game is essentially over against gobbos or Zoo, and especially if the matchup is an easy one (like gobbos or Zoo). I will throw it back all day long. I will keep a 6 card hand that looks like this but never 7. It just feels like to much of an uncertainty and I am not going to lose a matchup I know I should be winning because I kept an iffy hand. Your deck is better than theirs, mulligan iffy hands and make the deck work for you rather than roll the dice in uncertain situations.

Against Goblins or Zoo they won't be killing you in the early turns, there's no reason to cast Brainstorm if it's your only business spell. You can wait until you're actually under pressure. Against not fast decks, you can brainstorm turn one and sit there if you miss because they won't be killing you anyway.