thnx for the reply's
I Played with 3 Blood moons and 2 magus recently changed it to 3 magus 2 moon. But i really liked the 3moon and 2 magus bcs moon doesn't get
destroyed by creature removal what happens to be around allot.
But i noticed that i missed creatures and 5 moon effect is i think the way to go so i thought +1 magus -1moon but maybe add more figure's but it doesn't do i for me i dunno why maybe bcs all the creature removal arround.
Sounds interesting the blue splash but what to cut and a transformational sideboard? In what way? Blue in main for Trinket, draw or tutoring?
This deck is so tight what to remove for those cards? Like to see what you had in mind as a decklist?
looking forward to see more of the primer i enjoyed reading it keep up the good work!
Little do they know, I'm stealing their pants and using them for evil purposes!
Random thought: Has anyone tried Gamble with Welders in this version of the deck? My friend is building this deck, and gets irritated by the inability of the deck to tutor for Grindstone...we've tried adding a splash of blue through fetches and an island, along with Lotus Petals instead of Chrome Moxen. It just hasn't been working as well for some reason, so I'm looking for a red answer to the problem. All thoughts appreciated, thanks.
Me and my bro have been playing this deck with blue splash about year now with folloving list.Originally Posted by Yui
4 Imperial Recruiters
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Painter's Servent
4 SSG
4 Trinket Mage
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 REB
4 Pyroblast
3 Grindstone
4 Magma Jet
3 Chrome Mox
2 Blood moon
1 SDT
1 EE
Lands
4 Mountains
1 Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
We have got 2 top 8 place (finished 2nd and 5-8) and two times placed 9th on 7 tourney we played last year. there were 24-36 players on those tourneys.
Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one
I've honestly thought about the Chrome Moxes being replaced by Petal. I honestly hate the card 90% of the time I draw it. It's really only useful opening hand, but even then I dread pitching a card to it almost always. The only card I really wanna pitch to it is SSG....at this point, it's a necessary evil for first turn moon effects....it does get an artifact in the yard for welder too...
The problem with Gamble is its just so damn random....we have limited recursion effects, so its just too risky....not to mention there really isn't a lot of room for it...
Later EddieO
Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't for the life of me see what's so good about Figure of Destiny.
I have tried gamble in the past but i didn't like it. It added more randomness and you hand isn't that big later in the game.
Welder looked great but it didn't stay on the table for long everybody wanted it gone.
Isn't it a radical change for 4 blue cards? I will have to try it. What is the sideboard u use?
I couldn't think of what to remove for blue, i have the idea if you make a splash u can abuse i more
the sad part is i couldn't figure out how ^^
I like chrome mox in this deck, sometimes its hard to ptich something to it but i stay's on the table so later in the game
you can use it. Lotus petal is a 1 time thing.
When i draw it late game i use it for Jaya but i understand the feeling about the mox but i Lotus doesn't do it for me
figure is a good blocker and beater you can make it a 4/4 quick it's good against Gobbo etc
When it hits the table most of my opponents want to get rid of it asp and they waste removal on
it and not on my painter.
Little do they know, I'm stealing their pants and using them for evil purposes!
We have been playing Hibernation and Divert for blue, sometimes Submerge too. And for tutorable target there have been meekstone and chalice.
Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one
So to address so of what people are saying about the blue splash. I have played the shit out of it and I think the format isn't right for a trinket Mage tool box in the deck. Moon effects are still the strongest first turn plays we can make an that is why You need to play it. There really is no place for lotus petal in the deck. Yes the chrome mox is a terrible top deck but sometimes that is the cost of doing business.
I want to say that often times imprinting SSG is the wrong play. Yes it is the card you imprint most often, but I would say that is only 50 percent of the time you have both in hand. The way he changes math and serves as a creature under moon lock down is really great. That is the reason I switched back to running 4 in the main deck.
I def think the de k needs a splash to be strong, but I only think the splash cards should be in the board. This way you can always blindly play first turn moon against anyone without care. That ultimately should be your goal against every deck you play against. Unless you know that a moon effect will not be strong due to knowing your opponents deck, that should be your play.
I really think if you don't run bolts and figure you are making the goblins match up harder. Right now the meta is very favorable for the deck as peole are finally stopping playing shitty rock decks. I hope to have something more substantial posted by the weekend.
Seth
…no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
Going to a big tournament this weekend, so any input would be appreciated. This is in Canada (not sure if you have insight into the Toronto meta, but still...)
Note:
- I am running tops, so I want the shuffle effects. Not being able to manipulate my deck bothers me!
- Sideboard is where I have the most trouble. I want to run everything *grin*. It is set up right now against combo (trinisphere) and goblins (bolts) and annoying Emrakul (faerie and tormod's) and aggro (meekstone) and artifacts (spree). Shusher is staying, I could take out the meekstones, but then feel so naked against NO and Prog. and some aggro matchups. Revoker deserves consideration, but I am not sure where to put him (MD or board)
// Lands
6 Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
// Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Figure of Destiny
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Goblin Welder <-- OPEN SLOT, I don't like him in here, maybe switch for a Koth?
// Spells
3 Chrome Mox
3 Blood Moon
2 Magma Jet <-- do these still make sense to include?
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Umezawa's Jitte <-- Again, OPEN slot... but I love having it in here as it makes combat so awesome (while it is random to draw this, its much less random with top)
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Lightning Bolt
SB: 3 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Vexing Shusher
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Basilisk Collar
SB: 3 Meekstone
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Trinisphere
Drew was top 12 with a mono red list. Congrats!
You can see his decklist here
So I competed in my Legacy tournament this weekend. Not a SCG Legacy Open, but it was Toronto's Wizard World Legacy Foil Tournament. I placed 2nd (should have actually won *grin* you can see the report below).
Here is the list I ended up playing. I could not find my shattering spree's and no one had any to trade / sell, and I needed them all day as there were a lot of chalice's one 1!
// Lands
6 Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
// Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Figure of Destiny
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
// Spells
3 Chrome Mox
3 Blood Moon
2 Magma Jet
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Umezawa's Jitte
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Lightning Bolt
SB: 1 Goblin Welder
SB: 1 Hearth Kami
SB: 1 Viashino Heretic
SB: 1 Vexing Shusher
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Basilisk Collar
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Firespout
A couple quick comments:
- The firespouts worked wonders against dredge, goblins and affinity... surprisingly a good metagame call
- The toolbox of recruiter targets for artifact hate was pretty much useless, they were all too slow; however, the varied casting cost was nice when one guy got down a chalice @ 1 and @ 2
- I did not see the jitte the entire day; however, the collar was great, turning my recruiters into reasonable blockers against affinity
- I mulled every round, and mulled to 5 on 4 different games... this deck can get there though. I won on turn 2 on a mull to 5 at least once and won two of the other mull to 5's.
On to the report (5 rounds of swiss, cut to the top 8):
Round 1: Oldschool U/W control - Loss
- This is the guy who ended up in first after the cut to the top 8. I was just settling in and felt fairly cold to the deck. Dropped a first turn magus of the moon and held him off mana. He spell pierced my next play which threw me off and I played around spell pierce, even though I had grindstone and painter in hand. This gave him time to find a plains to swords my painter and then drop humility (?!? maindeck?). I still almost beat him down and grinded him out, but he beat me down with Elspeth tokens with 4 life and maybe 7 cards in his library
- Game two I punted by not blasting his wrath (with painter on the field) and then again stacking cards wrong off the top and not having enough mana to go off the turn before he unloaded on me. His deck ran humility, moat, all kinds of good enchantments I couldn't deal with *grin*
0 : 1
Round 2: U/W control - Win
- Demolished him in two games, the first I blood moon on turn two. He dazes, I pay with SSG, he dazes by returning a dual. Next turn, I drop the magus of the moon and that's pretty much it. Game two I had turn 1 blood moon again and he had kept a hand with no counters.
1 : 1
Round 3: Goblins - Win
- This was an interesting match up. A lot harder then I thought as they actually have a fair bit out outs with vial and incinerator. Anyways, game 1 I dropped painter and grindstone on turn one (on a mull to 5). Game 2 he totally punts. He drops a mountain to play lackey, I bolt it eot. On my turn I drop blood moon and he is screwed out of his white splash. He had a fetch in hand, could have dropped it for a plains, played vial and the next turn dropped lackey & been in business. Oh well. He develops his board, but 2 firespouts later its looking grim. The only tough play was that he had 3 goblins in play, enough to incinerator my servant, but I had grindstone as well so it was a bit of a standoff, with me losing the damage race. I played bolt to kill a goblin, he incinerated, I used SSG to activate grindstone in response. Love SSG!
2: 1
Round 4: MUD - Loss
This was so disheartening. I had no idea what he was playing, but dropped a first turn moon. He drops metalworker with some fast mana. I kill it, which sets him back, but I cannot find gas to get him down low enough before his artifact mana puts him back into it. Steel hellkite is brutal. Second game I pull it out with viashio heretic, after he gets down chalice @1 and 2. I nuked the 1, dropped grindstone, next turn nuked the 2, dropped painter and my blasts were online for protection, next turn gg. Last game he runs me over with 2 hellkites and a truck.
2 : 2
Round 5: Affinity - win
I have to win this to have a chance at being in the top 8 (two players at 3:2 can make it in). Again, no idea what he is playing so I blood moon him turn 1. He barfs his hand onto the table and signal pest + lots of dudes gets there. I boarded out all the moon effects to make room for artifact hate and bolts. He mulls aggressively to give himself options against moon (in the form of springleaf drum) which helps slow him down while I keep tutoring for different hate pieces. He kills them all with galvanic blasts, but misplays by killing welder rather then painter. I topdeck a grindstone like a champ and we move to game 3. The last game was good, but I firespout his first couple plays, he then drops disciple and ravager, which is scary, but my recruiter with a basilisk collar hold him off until I find grindstone for the win (recruiter had fetched painter). I dropped both and had a blast in hand to protect the painter from his galvanic.
3 : 2 (top 8, in 8th place!)
Top 8, vs U/W control - win
This match is against the guy I lost to first round. However, I am now warmed up and drop painter and top turn 1, turn two is grindstone and activation. Game two is much longer but I drop a turn one moon, which he can't deal with. It takes him a while to get up to coloured mana, and he has played some morphs which turn out to be exalted angels. He has to wrath at some point to get rid of my painter (with grindstone down) which deals with them, and I am at 1 life. Next turn I drop a koth and start the beats. At 5 counters, he lays down elspeth. I ultimate Koth and use my mountains (under moon of course) to ping the tokens and kill elspeth. Over the next 3 turns I just ping him to death.
Top 8, vs bloodghast + ichorid Dredge - win
I know he is on dredge so turn one I drop a naked grindstone and painter to prevent being cabal therapied. On a mull to 5...Seems good. Game two he mulls to 4, I drop turn one blood moon and that is that.
Top 8, vs Junk - loss
Game 1 I keep an awesome hand (top, moon, mox, recruiter, grindstone, city of traitors, mountain) . He toughtseizes, and takes top. I blood moon the next turn. Then recruiter for painter. He toughtseizes grindstone, so I spend 3-4 turns beating with recruiter and waiting. One nice tech was the painter naming blue made his Sword of Fire & Ice rather useless *grin*. I draw another grindstone (off a top in play) and that is it. Game two he again is under moon, but has a stoneforge mystic and jitte in play. He gets up to 3 counters, which is enough to kill my painter in play. I have grindstone, but cannot activate or he responds. I play properly by blasting his jitte, he kills painter (I only had 3 mana, so no grindstone in response)... but I forgot to declare blockers first, which means combat will goes through! New counters on jitte, so my painter in hand is useless as I still only have 4 mana. My own fault. Game 3 I blast an aether vial when I have him under moon again, instead of waiting to blast the jitte. It comes out and I draw 2 chrome mox, 3 lands, a Koth and die in a blaze of glory.
Second place, but a great deck and some great games!
If you are ever considering tops / vs. not, think on this. A lot of those games went long and I would find myself needing to sort my cards or dig for a piece. In probably 25% of my games I ended up using top to dig an extra card for either a surprise blast or the last piece of the combo I needed. Highly recommend trying the top.
Grats to Drew representing Painter to a strong finish at 12th place! I played him in the last (8th) round, and the deck was beastly. Jaya owned so hard it wasn't even funny!
I have no idea why SCG called Imperial Painter mono-red...
Decks that I care about:
Steel Stompy
UWx Landstill
Dreadstalker
DDFT (10% practice)
Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
Thanks! Nice job with Steel Stompy too Chris...very good showing for your homebrew.
I've been swamped since getting back to Houston, but I'll post a report soon.
grats drew
My 12 Post Videos - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...Q65OWRL5my7utn
Congratulations to Drew for doing so well with our nice deck in a big event like this. ;D
I'm very exited to hear about your report and matchups.
Personally I'm done with the blacksplash and tweaking my deck back to mono red, as the splash never seem to do what I expect from it. I will definately try this Ensnaring Bridge tech in my Sideboard, seems pretty decent to me with all those Eldrazi und Zoo decks being around.
As well I'm thinking about moving SDT back in this deck, as I miss him nearly every single game I play with this deck while Koth is pretty underwhelming most of the time.
When I fiddled out my new list, I will post a little more stuff, especially my view of different matchups I play against pretty often.
IMO there are a few cards that can't be cut in Imperial Painter:
2 Jaya
3 SDT
and the core cards of 6-7 blast, 6 Moon, 4 Painter, 4 Grindstone, 4 Recruiter. Drew mentions that Magma Jet was a little underwhelming and was thinking about the 4th Top in conjunction with an additional fetch. Top is quite powerful in this deck. Ensnaring Bridge is the solution to Emrakul while having other applications against bigger decks. While they try to find answers, you can sit back and dig to setup your combo (or if you have painter protect bridge with blast) and win with jaya.
Decks that I care about:
Steel Stompy
UWx Landstill
Dreadstalker
DDFT (10% practice)
Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
I would say try ensnaring bridge is a good option for sure, also prevents a lot of other incidental creatures from attacking (MUD steel hellkite, coralhelm commander, etc).
I went up to 2 x Koth in my deck and don't regret it. In long games he is fantastic, he gives you outs to planeswalker control stalls, he is yet another must-answer card in a deck that can attack from many different angels. I could see going down to 1, but recommend trying to keep 1 in your list.
With SDT, I would cut the magma jets, as I also found them underwhelming. If I entered a tournament tomorrow, my list would be (I would like to fit in ratchet bombs, but they feel too slow unless against tokens):
// Lands
6 Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
// Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Figure of Destiny
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
// Spells
3 Chrome Mox
3 Blood Moon
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 1 Umezawa's Jitte
// Sideboard
SB: 4 Lightning Bolt
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 shattering spree
SB: 1 Stingscourger
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt / Relic of progenitus
SB: 3 Ensnaring bridge
Last edited by Rath; 03-23-2011 at 02:18 PM. Reason: decklist error
So SCG DFW went well again this year for Painter. I actually audibled into it at the last minute after playing a Jace-Land Control deck (like CAB Jace, but without Punishing Fire) for the last couple of months because I didn't want to go to time for 8 straight matches.
It had been a while since I tried to tweak a Painter list for the metagame, but the last time I thought about it, I really wanted to try Ensnaring Bridge in the board. Initially, Bridge was just a reaction to Emrakul matchups, but then I started to think about how turning off the combat phase would be pretty helpful against other stuff too. So, I played a list that's pretty similar to previous builds but with a different SB strategy.
My first match was against Junk with land destruction. Game 1 I played a first turn Magus and got the combo with Blast back-up on turn four. Game 2 started slow with him discarding and destroying lands while I was able to draw and play a Top to stabilize at 8 life, remove a few threats and combo for the win.
1-0 / 2-0
I played Steve with BG Depths in the second match. In Game 1 I had a Magus Thoughtsiezed before I could play it and then I drew into all four Painters while he created Marit Lage. In Game 2 I played a bunch of dudes while he Needled Jaya and Grindstone, but I was able to beatdown with Jaya, Magus and couple of SSG’s. In Game 3 I played a first turn Magus after he fetched a swamp. He played a few Lotus Petals to get colors and dropped a Hexmage. I got Jaya and then Recruited a Servant to take out his colored mana and then clear his board.
2-0 / 4-1
I had seen a bunch of Merfolk and I got to play my only match against it in round 3. Standard story here – I Recruited Jaya in both games with burn or Blasts along the way and won the match in two games.
3-0 / 6-1
My fourth match was against Landstill with Mox Diamonds. I can’t remember what happened in game 1, but I think I combo’d for the win. In game 2, he started with a Mox Diamond which allowed him to easily remove my second turn magus and play Elspeth. I lost quickly to a 5/5 flying Mishra’s Factory as I had only two land the whole time. Game 3 was an early Moon/Magus followed by Jaya+Painter for the win.
4-0 / 8-2
Match 5 was against Bant. I felt pretty good in the first game after I removed a Warmonk and dropped a Magus on his three dual lands. But the turn following my Magus he dropped a basic Plains, killed the Magus and beat me up. I think I combo’d fairly quickly in game 2. Game 3 was more drawn out. I had a Top keeping me alive with chump blockers while I dropped Servant with Grindstone out and a Blast in hand. The problem was that he had Pridemage out, so I kept the three lands I had in play untapped so I could combo in response to anything he did. I drew a fourth land and was now on a clock with a Goyf attacking that I couldn’t block in order to keep the combo alive. So I played the land and Blasted the Pridemage so I could then combo, but he had a Path in hand too. Next turn I topdecked Ensnaring Bridge but he topdecked another Pridemage and killed me.
4-1 / 9-4
I played Sang’s top 8 Junk deck in the sixth match. Game 1 was me getting landscrewed and losing without a chance. In Game 2 I believe I got the combo after a few rounds of beatdown by a Magus. The third game was a little back-and-forth at the beginning, but I quickly ran out of gas even with a Top because I drew into all lands, Moxes and SSG’s.
4-2 / 10-6
Feeling a little deflated now that I was out of top 8 contention, I was a unfocused going into match 7 against Dredge but I managed to pull out the combo in game 1. In game 2 I had to mulligan to 5 but I had a turn 2 combo in hand with a Servant, Grindstone, a City, a Tomb and a Mountain. I played Servant, but unfortunately he Cabal Therapied the Grindstone and went on to win. Game 3 I was able to start stuff on turn 2 with a Moon. He dredged into 3 Narcomoebas and began a slow beatdown while also playing two Needles on Grindstone, but I played Ensnaring Bridge then Trinisphere to keep him locked out just long enough to Recruit the one Jaya I kept in (to remove the needles) and assemble the combo before he could reanimate Angel of Despair.
5-2 / 12-7
At this point my friends Chris, Jeff and I were all in contention for top 16 and we figured it would be cool for a couple of us to get paid and then be able to start driving back to Houston. Of course I get paired with Chris who was playing his own creation, Steel Stompy. Chris probably remembers the details better then me, but what happened in both games was Jaya+Painter being ridiculous.
6-2 / 14-7
If I could have changed the MD, I would have gone +1 Moon, + 1 Fetchland, -2 Magma Jet. I think 6 Moon effects is about the right number, and I also want a little more assurance that I'll have ample mana in the first two turns. Four tops is worth trying for sure, but three has seemed sufficient so far. Although a fourth would definitely help the Junk matchup.
The Tops have been non-negotiable to me forever now. I acknowledge that others can achieve good results with a different approach, but I can't imagine bringing Painter to any larger tournament without them. A one-of Dragonlord has worked well for me as the beatdown option and I was happy with it again, mostly as a decoy. I also believe that every mono-red Painter build should have at least two Jayas. Moon effects are not actual "locks" by themselves, but with Jaya and Servant they are. She is pretty unfair in this deck.
In the sidboard, I will definitely be keeping the 4 Trinispheres, 3 Ensnaring Bridge and 1 Stingscourger. The rest of the board is not in stone.
I'll try to post some more thoughts later....
Nice job in Dallas Drew, I was planning on going myself with painter but some bad turn of events right before the weekend canceled that :(.. Ensnaring bridge seems insane.. Will probably add that to my board.
Team FireBrothers
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