[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[CorpT]

Honestly, stay away from Grunt. I have tried him so many times in this deck and others and he has been a raging disappointment every single time. If you want creatures that are good against removal, check out Hawk. I know plenty of people don't believe me, but Hawk is very solid against removal heavy deck. He flies and wears equipment. That's what the deck wants.

[ivanpei]

Jotun grunt is crazy good, Have you played with him? He has a 4 ass that cannot be bolted by zoo and can block Kitties all day. Most importantly he shrinks goyf, kotrs and stops your opponent from casting Stalker. He is an allstar, though I won't run 4. Grunt is terrible in multiples. I play 2 but 3 is probably ok too. Hawk is ok if you need gas, but this deck seems to have enough dudes to carry equipment already. Hawk is better in a dedicated deck built to abuse him.

[CorpT]

I've tried him many times in many variations of the deck. He is unreliable in both dealing with GYs and sticking around. For every MU he is ok against, he is weak against another.

[ivanpei]

He is only terrible vs dedicated control like like landstill/counterbalance because he will eventually die. I just treat him as a 2 mana double fireblast. Kotr, Goyf and Stalker are extremely common now. In a big event, you will see either one or multiples of those creatures in 6/10 matches. It's ok if you don't like him in a heavy control environment, but there is very very little control right now if you look at the SCG lists. Most are midrange/combo decks.

[Wilkin]

Huge fan of Jotun Grunt. I only use 2 of him in the deck because of his upkeep cost but he's good in many ways.

-With aether Vial, you can use him as a combat trick to block.
-shrinks Goyf, Terravore, KOTR. Makes it a bit harder to play tombstalker, threshold takes a bit longer.
-can mess with decks that rely on graveyards. putting Life from the loam on the bottom of the library is nice.
-I've also got back my Sword of Fire and Ice using Grunt and Mystic.

Never tried Squadron Hawk. Apparently, it's seeing some play in legacy although it's in blue/white decks as opposed to black/white. Dunno. Sure it's nice to have an evasion creature that can hold a sword. My problem with Deadguy at the moment is that you don't put your opponent on much of a clock since the creatures available in black and white aren't that big (except for Stalker). Which is why I put in KOTR and considered putting in Tombstalker (even with Dark Confidant and Aether Vial). Wishing they would make a good specter again but not likely to happen. None of the specters I've seen of late are even Standard Viable. LOL, if only Shimian Specter were one mana less. But that would be insane.

Teeg and Maze huh? Might put a Teeg in the board, although I've been finding Ethersworn Canonist to be better against Storm and is easier to cast if I have to. I'd like to fit in Maze but I don't find mazing one creature to be an issue. It's either creatureless decks for the most part or a huge swarm of them.

[CorpT]

For every time it's done something cool like that, it's been stuck in my hand or lost early because of lack of graveyard. If I wanted an unreliable creature I couldn't cast in the first few turns, I'd just play Serra Avenger. At least it has Avenger has flying and vigilance.

[Rainbow Maker]

why play squadron hawk without brainstorm? running hawk means you have to have someway to abuse him. A. you are a tempo deck with daze etc. or B. you are extremely equipment reliant

[paladin3056]

Thanks for answers sdematt. Makes me wanna use my playset of foil Revokers to build this deck. It has versiatlity and even if you have nothing to name it can come in as a beater when it carries a Sword or a jitte. Something to ponder on.

I am currently working on a Vial list, I am trying to find the right combination of creatures to put in as well, but I will test it out without the vials as well to see how it goes.

I think Juton Grunt is good but only as a 2-of since you do not want him to be a dead card in your hand if you have no Graveyard.Quite strong against opposing gofy's and reliquary.

On squadron Hawk, I think it is worth testing out but is much better in a build running Jace TMS and Brainstorm to hide the other Squadron Hawks for more extra draw. It has even greater benefit when you play with equips, makes them a better threat.

[Mr. Safety]

If I were to use Stillmoon, he would essentially take Serra Avenger's spot (which gets worse without Vials.) Here is just a sample list of what I would probably bring for Deadguy if I went to a tourney:

4x Bob
4x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Stillmoon Cavalier
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquistion of Kozilek
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
3x Hymn to Tourach/Gerard's Verdict
3x Wasteland
4x Marsh Flats
4x Scrubland
Swamps/Plains to fill out the lands

I know, no Moms. Possibly sideboard tech...but with 4x Revoker maindeck, Mom seems to be a little less important.

[K1w1]

3x Hymn to Tourach/Gerard's Verdict

I would prefer Gerard's Verdict, because you've get every time both at the beginning. But it could just be for me. Either dual lands, fetchies or both land types.

In the other hand with hymn. These are random cards are not given in gerards.

hmm while im writing i think hymn is much better, because you've get a Jitte and SoLaS + Nighthawk

You dont need more life.

Just in my opinion :)

[Spacemagic]

What cards can we run effectively in our sideboards?? what cards against what matchups??

my current 15

3x Extirpate - combo/catch-all
3x Ethersworn Canonist - combo
3x Path to Exile - zoo/aggro
4x Engineered Plague - tribal/ zoo if i see a lot of cats (steppe lynx, wild nacatl, loam lion...etc)
2x Perish (zoo/progenitus)

I'm also a huge fan of the "free" traps (mindbreak and ravenous).
I don't have any revokers, but it would seem they would be worth testing.

Just curious what everyone plays to even matchups

[Mr. Safety]

If you don't have Revokers, Pithing Needles are solid subs. Revokers are pretty intense though...they do exactly what Deadguy wants: mess up opposing tempo while being able to beat for 2 and hold equipment.

[bokwinkle]

... My problem with Deadguy at the moment is that you don't put your opponent on much of a clock since the creatures available in black and white aren't that big (except for Stalker)...

Quoted for truth.

Right now I basically hope to see Perish out of my board whenever I face a similar build with green creatures - it's the only possible way for me to win typically - their late game top-decks are just so much better.

For every time it's done something cool like that, it's been stuck in my hand or lost early because of lack of graveyard. If I wanted an unreliable creature I couldn't cast in the first few turns, I'd just play Serra Avenger. At least it has Avenger has flying and vigilance.

Also Quoted for truth.

I can't deal with having creatures in hand that i can't cast - it drives me up the wall. The problem I have with Avenger and Grunt is that by the time you can cast them your opponent has had time to develop his board and go find removal for them.

What cards can we run effectively in our sideboards?? what cards against what matchups??

my current 15

3x Extirpate - combo/catch-all
3x Ethersworn Canonist - combo
3x Path to Exile - zoo/aggro
4x Engineered Plague - tribal/ zoo if i see a lot of cats (steppe lynx, wild nacatl, loam lion...etc)
2x Perish (zoo/progenitus)

I'm also a huge fan of the "free" traps (mindbreak and ravenous).
I don't have any revokers, but it would seem they would be worth testing.

Just curious what everyone plays to even matchups

Currently I run something like this

4x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Engineered Plague
3x Perish
2x Disenchant
1x Diabolic Edict
2x Phyrexian Revoker

The disenchants are iffy these days, I originally had them in there for counter-top matchups and for opponents dumb enough to run out their combo pieces before they were going to go off. I'm not even sure I need the disenchants anymore with the revokers now...I need to do more sideboard work honestly. I'm still debating more hate against Cheating creatures into play (reanimator, SneakShow, 12 Post, etc.). The canonist is for combo matchups - which there are plenty. EPlague is good against Gobo's and Fish. Perish is good against Team America, Death and Taxes, etc - it's absolutely required in pretty much any green matchup because their creatures outclass ours so easily.

[Star|Scream]

Is grunt food really that hard to come by with all the discard? t1 TS t2 hymn = 5 cards by turn 3 not even counting fetches or your opponent playing anything

[CorpT]

Is grunt food really that hard to come by with all the discard? t1 TS t2 hymn = 5 cards by turn 3 not even counting fetches or your opponent playing anything

That's not even two turns. Look:

T1: Thoughtseize
YG: TS
HG: TS Target

T2: Hymn
YG: TS, Hymn - 2
HG: TS Target, Hymn Cards - 3

T3: Grunt

T4: Upkeep - Your GY

T5: Upkeep - Sure hope he played something that went to the GY because there aren't enough cards in his GY to pay for upkeep.

Are you willing to bet that your opponent has fetched? Your fetches only count if you've fetched twice. What if you're playing against Affinity? What if you're playing against Elves? What if you're playing against Merfolk? In your scenario you get one attack with grunt and then he's iffy. And let's say you get two. Are you really locked on getting a third? 6 more cards need to go to the GY in even numbers to get one more attack. That's pretty much the definition of unreliable. I want a creature that I get more than 2 attacks with when I play it.

I also think he gives a false sense of security for GY hate. He is not GY hate. Not even close. For decks you need GY hate for (I'm not sure, did a few Top 8 at the last SCG?) he is not useful. Dredge blows past him. Reanimate Entombs at end of turn. Breakfast blows past him.

Seriously, Grunt is garbage. If you want a beater, play Goyf. He gets better with discard and doesn't die after two swings.

[bokwinkle]

I'm having a hard time finding creatures that are white that are really worth playing. I don't know how long it will be before I replace Vindicate with Maelstrom Pulse and just go Green/Black. I'd loose some versatility in land destruction with pulse over vindicate, and the loss of swords would be difficult, but not impossible to overcome (black does have plenty of good removal options after all). The only other thing I'd really loose is SFM, but honestly, if we just run good creatures we don't need stoneforge mystic at all - all of a sudden my 6-card mystic package becomes 4 goyfs and 2 jittes, which just seems infinately better and faster.

Plus I'd gain K-Grip in the board, which seems pretty significant in the current meta. And I can run Deed too...which...well, we all know deed is good.

I'm not there yet, but I feel like white is quickly fading away here - it was never the strongest part of the deck to begin with...this deck was, after all, just an "improved" version of the MBC deck that ran discard and land-destruction. I think as more of us keep looking for valid finishers (whether it's tombstalker or persecutor or whatever else), and thinking about dark ritual, white will continue to fade - because as the deck is built right now (the B/w, not the B/w/g) SFM is the finisher...so we're basically looking to replace the White finisher, leaving me wondering why we need white at all. I think that generally we'll find that cheap white creatures are designed to take advantage of tempo, rather than provide a good end-game clock, I think that the design approach for white is generally hampering this deck design and counter to what it's currently trying to achieve - play disruption, overcome your opponent with card advantage and finish...currently we can't finish, becuase white isn't designed to "just finish" with small mana dudes, so we're left looking for black creatures to finish..which begs the question...why do we need white again?

Just my $0.02

[CorpT]

Playing three colors is not out of the question at all. IMO, Swords and SFM are worth being into White. The rest of the White spells are just gravy: Vindicate, Sculler, etc...

[bokwinkle]

It's only not out of the question because wasteland recursion is not currently a large part of the meta - but that could easilly change because of decks like 12-post.

I do agree though, SFM, Swords and Vindicate are extremely powerful cards - but do you really need 'Goyf AND SFM, or Vindicate AND pulse? I don't think so, but again...I'm still playing white.

[Star|Scream]

That's not even two turns. Look:

T1: Thoughtseize
YG: TS
HG: TS Target

T2: Hymn
YG: TS, Hymn - 2
HG: TS Target, Hymn Cards - 3

T3: Grunt

T4: Upkeep - Your GY

T5: Upkeep - Sure hope he played something that went to the GY because there aren't enough cards in his GY to pay for upkeep.

Are you willing to bet that your opponent has fetched? Your fetches only count if you've fetched twice. What if you're playing against Affinity? What if you're playing against Elves? What if you're playing against Merfolk? In your scenario you get one attack with grunt and then he's iffy. And let's say you get two. Are you really locked on getting a third? 6 more cards need to go to the GY in even numbers to get one more attack. That's pretty much the definition of unreliable. I want a creature that I get more than 2 attacks with when I play it.

I also think he gives a false sense of security for GY hate. He is not GY hate. Not even close. For decks you need GY hate for (I'm not sure, did a few Top 8 at the last SCG?) he is not useful. Dredge blows past him. Reanimate Entombs at end of turn. Breakfast blows past him.

Seriously, Grunt is garbage. If you want a beater, play Goyf. He gets better with discard and doesn't die after two swings.

You're acting like you have to cast grunt on the 3rd turn. In the above scenario you still have at least 5 cards in hand that all have a 3 or less casting cost that you can cast instead . I was just saying that this deck (as opposed to d&t) puts a lot of cards in the graveyard in the first few turns.

Yes grunt has a shelf-life. That is understood. For the investment tombstalker is clearly better power-wise. However, you have to look at it for everything it does. It's not reanimator or dredge hate. It is permanents-that-rely-on-the-graveyard hate. It's shrink-rock's creatures to 0/1 and 2/2 hate. Recurring wasteland hate. Also with a sword it swings for 6. And it only costs 2 life from bob. Oh and it'll send your discard back to your library and with 8 md shuffle effects that's pretty good.


Against elves you can take it out in favor of perish and plague.

[CorpT]

You're acting like you have to cast grunt on the 3rd turn. In the above scenario you still have at least 5 cards in hand that all have a 3 or less casting cost that you can cast instead . I was just saying that this deck (as opposed to d&t) puts a lot of cards in the graveyard in the first few turns.

Yes grunt has a shelf-life. That is understood. For the investment tombstalker is clearly better power-wise. However, you have to look at it for everything it does. It's not reanimator or dredge hate. It is permanents-that-rely-on-the-graveyard hate. It's shrink-rock's creatures to 0/1 and 2/2 hate. Recurring wasteland hate. Also with a sword it swings for 6. And it only costs 2 life from bob. Oh and it'll send your discard back to your library and with 8 md shuffle effects that's pretty good.


Against elves you can take it out in favor of perish and plague.

I would just rather play a reliable creature like Goyf every single time. The downside of having a third color is more than made up for in the reliability of Goyf and the additional Green cards you pick up. I don't want creatures I can't cast on turn 3 and have a shelf life. I want good creatures.