All Burn decks that made Top8 in the last time in relevant tournaments had 4 Goblin Guides for a reason. I played the deck as well as another player in an 80+ ppl tourney and I made 6th, he made 2nd place very easy with the deck. Only lost to flood or screw as far as I can tell for myself. Goblin Guide's trigger doesnt matter at all and is sometimes a huge advantage because you can make your decisions with additional information.
My question is how many tourneys you played with him to make such weird statements. I really think that youre just trollin, otherwise you wouldnt be so rude and stubborn, sry but thats it. I made my opponent draw like 3-4 cards with him and i had to mull to 5 and you know what? I won, mainly to the Guide. Pls dont call other player names when they are just right at their points... .
So, I take it Kiln Fiend is no longer relevant? Tis a very sad thing.
Originally Posted by Pinder
I dont think that kiln Fiend became irrelevant. To be honest, havent tested it enough by myself but I am in knowledge that some players had great results with it, which isnt THAT surprising to me. In the right MU's he is definetly nuts and allows much faster goldfish's. I am just not so convinced because he also can be big downside and is a horrible topdeck. If it works out its fine but I see it more as a metachoice or would place it in another built in general. he might be kickass with Searing Blaze maindeck.
I think that Burns potential is still underestimated and I wouldnt be too surprised if the deck and its variant make more top8's in the near future. Luckily there isnt that much CB-decks because the meta has grown to something CB really cant beat constant IMO and thats a sign to play the deck even more IMO. Everything that lays down dudes is a good to even MU with the correct sb. Less RWM also. The thing is that Stoneforge Mystic is really in a lot of decks so I would be careful to cut the Vortex, because otherwise you have a really tough time against Jitte in G1.
In general: I am really looking forward to see this deck beeing recognized as a serious competitor and would like to see a lot of different versins of it, making good results.
Again with Sullivan's list (we need a report!) I think that the redundant REBs could be good to ensure having one when our opponent plays the Counterbalance. Because once it comes into play, REB becomes near useless. On the other hand, I find them bad on the draw. You want to start with Guide/FOD/Grim but it wouldn't let you mana open for an hypothetical turn 2 Counterbalance.
About FOD, it isn't explosive in the first turns and after that, a 4/4 won't be too relevant if we have a big creature in front like Tarmogoyf. That's why I think that Keldon Marauders fit great in Burn (They don't need combat phase to ensure damage). In its favor, FOD let you more freedom about burning creatures because you have more reach with them. And it also helps against Leyline, Counterbalance and mana flood.
Any thoughts about those choices?
Last edited by Azel Orfat; 03-31-2011 at 09:35 AM.
Also I want people to remember that it will NOT give any kind of card advantage to opponents if Guide will show nonland cards. Actually, it's better than a normal 2/2 Haste man when it shows top card of opponent's library, as you can plan your next turns basing on information gotten with GG.
About FOD, I personally don't like that card that much, as Legacy is format of creatures mostly. So basically you use 3 turns, 5 mana to get 4/4 which might get bolted on second boost... is it really worth of it? In a meta full of Leyline of sanctity, it might be a good add-on, but in a general meta I wouldn't use it. Against counterbalance you must ensure that it will stay on the battlefield, and you must cast it before Balance hits the table. It's as dead as GG or bolt if you topdeck it...
Kiln Fiend is an interesting creature because it will hit REALLY big or miss. That depends on whether your opponent manages to get a removal on it (As I believe that blockers aren't that good as they will get removed out of Kiln's way)
As for the REBs and Pyroblasts, I personally wouldn't use Pyroblasts in the side, because 3-4 REBs will be enough. Even against counterbalance, you only need Pithing Needle and REBs. And if you're using them, Ratchet Bombs are good too, as it sweeps Tarmos and Balance away in a single card (or Thopter Foundry if you're playing against URW Balance)
And Lastly, I really don't care whether burn is recognized as a "Deck to Beat", as underestimation is our greatest weapon :P One time I won against Counterbalance because he was quite arrogant about the matchup :D He kooked he was like "How can I lose against Burn?!?". And that my friend, is the reason I still love playing Burn!
About REB, I meant it was bad against CB on the draw, sorry. (I suppose it was obvious but I'll edit anyway)
I think that Vexing Shusher is the only real good way to deal with Counterbalance. Also Sulfuric Vortex can be a good help.
What are the general thoughts on Searing Blaze main board in legacy?
If you know your meta is all aggro, sure. if it's not then you just gave yourself some un-needed dead draws. and this deck doesn't need more dead draws against combo and control.
If the meta is already full of Aggro, then Flamebreak would be a better card to run. X for 1's are much better than 1 for 1's, and it deals the same damage to your opponent.
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Personally, I like it. Clearly though, it's a meta choice depending on how much non-creature combo you see.
This.
Shusher is effectively the condom of the burn deck in a whorehouse where you have no idea what kind of STD-infected orifice you're about to plunge your dick into.
I really don't see why he would play REB's at all. I've never been a fan of the 8 Blast Plan and there is no way I'd run it now. I'd much rather board in Shusher against CB. Sulfuric Vortex is also good against CB and deals with lifegain as well. I prefer it over Sullivan's Flame Rift.Again with Sullivan's list (we need a report!
About FOD, it isn't explosive in the first turns and after that, a 4/4 won't be too relevant if we have a big creature in front like Tarmogoyf. That's why I think that Keldon Marauders fit great in Burn (They don't need combat phase to ensure damage). In its favor, FOD let you more freedom about burning creatures because you have more reach with them. And it also helps against Leyline, Counterbalance and mana flood.
Any thoughts about those choices?
I hate Figure of Destiny in burn. You have to pump so much mana into this thing to even get a decent threat. It requires too much babysitting. I'd rather have Marauders or Hellspark.
It is not per say the SB match up why you see so many blasts. Other matches, such as the Spiral Tide, show and tell, Fish, as well as to some extents Painter Grindstone is where you see more value in it.
Playing again tonight I was fairly happy with blazes main board, though it warrants more testing. Though it was awkward at time as Japan is really big on Phyrexian Crusader. Ran very well save a reanimator match up where Iona trumped me in two games, as well as a discard/sinkhole deck running crusader. I've yet to play flame rift myself, but will be playing them sometime soon as I have some cards in transit from the US.
Why would you want to play Blasts in those matches though? Are you not confident in your matchup against Fish? Keeping a Painter out of play is pretty easy. You already (or at least should be) playing Volcanic Fallout in the SB for Tribal decks. I think Pillar is as good or better than red blasts against Spiral Tide and damage doesn't matter in this matchup. There really isn't a lot you can do in the combo matches but I'd rather play something that's synergistic with my deck rather than slow it down and try and play their game.
Burn won 1st place in a 118 players tournament on 4/9. Gratz Manuel Gómez!
http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/12766
The build look very interesting to say the least. Why more fetch than basics?
Grim Lavamancer is why he played more fetches than basics. They thin the deck out so he draws gas, and then fills his graveyard quickly for those 4 Grims.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I really dont want to repeat myself (and dont like it as well) but again this is the nearly exact list which is announced as beeing the nearly most competetive. If someone hasnt noticed, its Millers list with the small change of cutting Sulfuric Vortex for Figure of Destiny. Those 4 Slots are the only ones that you can play around with, this is still my oppinion.
The maindeck is supertight and all interacts well with eachother and I can just recommend to play those 56 cards maindeck and make your own thoughts and ideas towards the 4 free slots. Fancy cards like Flamebreak or Magma Jet are bad, literally, and arent needed at all. Dont blame me, playtest the deck and board well, then you'll see. Again this is no offense.
Towards the deck itself:
It isnt that easy to play as most players think it is. I saw so many players loosing with burn because of horrible lists, no clue about building a well balanced sb and also boarding plans and crucial mistakes in gameplay that it makes me wanna scream and getting a bit upset that the deck isnt getting the attention it deserves in terms of beeing a very consitent and stable deck. Nearly each other deck has got a core where you really shouldnt change a single card so why not here? But I guess thats just the fact because there are a ton of cards which deal X/Y damage in comparison to other cards like Cantrips and Tribals.
When I lookt at most Burn-lists its just like someones playing Goblins with cards like Goblin Ballon Brigade or Goblin Swineriders instead of Ringleaders and matrons... .
In response...Hypothek!
Ok, so I registered here on The Source just ti post in this thread, that I am reading since several months, and now I have to say that I totally agree with you, brainwasher. I am a Burn player and I hate seeing lists that pack suboptimal cards like Hellspark Elemental, Incinerate, or even Fork or Reverberate.
Also, a lot of person seem to think that playing Burn is the easiest thing in Magic, but they are just wrong. Burn/Sligh requires a lot of experience to be played at his best.
This said, i just wanted you to now that here in Italy the deck that splashes white for Steppe Lynx is gaining popularity over his older Mono-Red brother thanks to his performing results. The main deck looks exactly as brainwasher wrote, so there's not that much to say about it: Lynx (over main-deck vortex) ensures very explosive starts, and while a mediocre top-deck in mid-late game, that's not really where you want to be with burn, and in the worst case she can just sit there waiting to chump block a Goyf or a Reliquary, trying to buy you more time to topdeck that Fireblast.
In addition, the 2 Plateaus are not to destabilizing for our manabase, cause when we fetch for a Plateau it means that we just cast a Steppe Lynx, so even if they waste it, it's not that much of a big deal for them (Sulfuric Vortex was the last 3 drop in our main deck).
Anyone ever considered Runeflare Trap on the sideboard for those annoying brainstorm decks?? i been playtesting it against my playgroup and its been doing upwards of 6 damage for 1 red mana.... i know its a S/B card for those Jace TMS and Brainstorm and standstill decks, but once i side her in, it changes the way my buddies would play their brainstorms...
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