They can't do that, or they get sued. It's been covered.
And the Bend Test is still pretty hard to beat for fakes. I've seen some really good ones, and who knows what's out there.
Wizards makes money, Eternal players get more card availability, collectors get pissed off.Originally Posted by Roman Candle
I like it.
Taylor I usually disagree with you, but now I really disagree with you :p
This isn't type one. You can't do proxies for sanctioned events. Your background is primarily vintage, so I understand why you'd propose this, but it's nuts.When you think about it, most duals are old, and fucked up anyway, it'd be too easy for someone to start pumping out decent fakes for duals, wastes and forces. And really, who cares. It seems to me that most people who want into legacy right now don't want the cards as collectables, they want them to play with. Honestly, I will willingly buy decent fakes for the purpose of just paying in tournaments with them. Considering how poor the quality is on the older cards, combined with how good fakes can be, combined with the fact that it's in a sleeve, and my opponent will be none the wiser. Even if I did have some crazy judge, who inspected all of the cards of the players in the top 8 DID find a fake amongst mine, what will they do? Sorry judge, I traded for it at a PTQ last week! I had no idea!! Or, I could just slip out my fake duals, with the real duals from a friend who didn't top 8, and presto, I'm in the clear.
WOTC also as a business revolves around people buying real magic cards, with the exception of Magic Online.
Hidden treasures was a horrible idea. There were fake power in some packs (unintentionally). I agree with those statements and I doubt WOTC will ever try that particular gimmick again.It happened in Vintage; in fact a good portion of power circulating around vintage circles is fake; there are even reports of people getting fake power from the "Hidden Treasures" promo. That's how good fakes can be. Now, if people get really serious about this, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some fakes that can't even be distinguished via bend or blacklight tests. The only way to know if a card is real for sure is the security strip in the middle, which you have to tear the card to find. GREAT IDEA, WoTC.
If you believe someone is playing with fake cards, call a judge. Can't stress this enough.I suspect we'll start seeing a LOT of fake duals come this summer
It's trickier to identify this in Legacy, but if something doesn't look right just call a judge.
I don't think we're going to see a proliferation of fake duals. Legacy singles aren't at the level of power 9. SCG and other giant vendors aren't helping that right now, but I've said this in other forums that Ebay is the great equalizier and it keeps singles from truly ever getting out of control.
Legacy is the only popular sanctioned format right now where you need to make a significant investment to jump in and play competitively. That's not too bad considering all the competitive formats Magica has to offer at reasonable prices.
I'm in the camp that singles are high right now and it's a little unfair for players trying to jump in, but I don't think it's impossible to. You just have to make the investment, and when you're done playing it can be easily recouped and then some depending what you buy.
- Dave
9/19 Legacy for a Lotus! http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...cy-for-a-Lotus!
One thing that Ive noticed is there are no more youngsters playing legacy. Sure, Im an adult, I work and make money to buy my own cards, however, I do remember being 14 and mowing the lawn right after school on Friday so I could go play in a booster draft. Most people I played with were around my age. Our 1.5 tournaments were awesome! 16+ people would show up every Wednesday to duke it out. Berserk had just gotten unbanned and times were good. I could save up for about a month and buy forces, duals, whatever.
Now I am an adult who makes his own money and it still takes me the same amount of time to save up for the same cards. What the hell!
If I can't even afford this, I feel bad for the kids who want to play it today. I know that playing it was one of the best things of my teen years, and it's a real shame that kids today dont get the chance.
"Hey dad, can I have some money to buy some cards?"
"Sure son, how much are they?"
"2 thousand dollars."
Yeah, that must go over great these days.
You look bored, I wish
everything about the danger
wouldnt make you such a stranger.
Regarding fakes:
How have these not hit the market yet? I assume that with higher prices, there would be lots and lots more of these popping up. Plus, people are taking better care of their cards (such as perfect sleeving then regualar sleeving) that it would be virtually impossible to be caught. I was under the impression that fakes were really hard to tell. Isnt that why people ask for high resolution SCANS? If people need high resolution scans, to figure out if a card is fake, how can they tell if its across a table from you?
Ebay is notorious for fake duals. Just google "Ebay fake magic cards" and you'll see dozens of horror stories, ways to help spot a fake, etc. It's one of the reasons I don't buy expensive stuff of ebay, especially older expensive cards.
Of course they did, most people just don't realize they bought fakes. When I see videos like this, all I do is chuckle.
- What are letters?
- Kinda like mediaglyphics except they're all black, and they're tiny, they don't move, they're old and boring and really hard to read. But you can use'em to make short words for long words.
How can I get this across to you all? WotC isn't legally obligated to honor the reserved list; those who would seek recompense against them would lose. Quickly. And embarrassingly.
Dave, my background as a player has nothing to do with the situation at hand. I'm not proposing that WoTC or anyone for that matter allow proxies in sanctined Magic. I personally am not a huge fan of proxies. I'm talking about people who are dishonestly selling fake cards that they are passing off as real. Players buy the "real" cards and then play with them in tournaments. As of right now, nobody wants fake cards, but if prices continue to rise (or even stay this high for a large portion of time) I think people sooner or later aren't going to care if the dual land they register at the GP is actually real or not.
With the rising price of cardboard and rising popularity of legacy, people are going to be pretty damn tempted to buy a set of "wastelands" for $100 from some shady-ass eBay vendor, and just sort of live in ignorance
I KNOW this happens now, and I'm willing to bet we're going to see a lot more of it in the future. In fact, I'm willing to bet that there are 3-6 fake duals in your store on a Thursday night
TIME POLICE
Heh, you know, I used to actually own 76 Forces at one time. When they hit $35 bucks a pop I decided to sell out. Sounds dumb, but I didn't have by far that much into them so I didn't mind. It was an impressive sight and since all of them were packed in the store while I was there to trade for them or by myself when I got them, I knew they weren't fake. I stockpiled them since I knew the format would go nuts with combo if they ever banned it so it was a decent investment.
Anyway, I have seen some impressive fakes. Even the older "Dark Betas" were damned impressive. you could bend test them, use a UV light, use a loupe, and even rip one up and they still looked good all the way through down to the blue. No idea how they made them, but man I couldn't tell other than the color was a little off sometimes and I've had my hands on just about every card you can think of.
As long as they announce it a fair bit ahead of time, I see no reason why this wouldn't be true.
The alternative seems to be simply banning all pre-Masques sets, since as Van Hammer notes, the inability of teenagers to get into the game now is worrying.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
I think we had this discussion before. From what I can remember, it was something like...
a) Hasbro itself putting the stops on it,
b) WotC's legal department putting the stops on it.
This was based off Forsythe making comments supportive of Legacy after GP Madrid and the invitation of SCG to HQ (where they made it clear the Reserved List was detrimental), then the 180 degree turn of 'the List stays non-disclosure agreement' statement.
I guess the people who treat the List as a 401k put forth enough of a threat to shut the idea down.
You know, this whole fake card thing worries me quite a bit. With all the technology available nowadays, I mean, how hard is it to fake a Magic card anyway? If you have the proper tools, it's actually quite easy.
Scary thought.
The fake industry might see a boom. It's the same deal with anything that's expensive e.g. Loius Vuitton bags etc. In Asia, every single lady, whether you're young or old, has an LV bag. 99% of them are fake :P
The reason behind this industry is because of the insanely high prices. When cards are that expensive e.g. Moxen/Vintage, there will be an industry that is out there trying to earn that money out of counterfeit. It's the reason why we don't see too many fakes in Legacy running around because it's still not profitable and worth it to print fakes for Legacy. That may see change depending on how the secondary market is having fun right now manipulating card prices (when I say manipulate, I don't mean they have control over prices, but it is obvious they have a HUGE influence on it. Every card that SCG has stated that they were buying high, has jumped, everything else hasn't jumped suddenly, and still follow a rising normal trend).
I bet you if SCG were to start buying out Foil EDH staples, they can very well influence that market as well.
Decks that I care about:
Steel Stompy
UWx Landstill
Dreadstalker
DDFT (10% practice)
Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
I concur.
The only thing keeping WTC from abolishing the Reserved List is their own moronic internal corporate policy. Despite the fact that they re-affirmed and strengthened the list recently, I believe that if there is enough outcry from customers, and WTC finally gets it through their thick skulls that they can actually make $ from eternal formats (gasp what a shocker!) that they would consider abolishing the list and re-printing old cards in a responsible manner that upholds the integrity, rarity, and value of the original prints.
If you want the list abolished write wizards and tell them so. Remember, we are the customers and we have the $.
This is how I imagine the collapse of the Legacy market. When the cards become worth so much, more untrustworthy people come out and play with honest souls. Then, the trust between players, especially inexperienced, newer players, will start to fall. If eBay becomes a method of distribution for these fakes, then prices will fall precipitously.
It's counterproductive for them to do so, they would obviously favor players to support Type 2 than depart from it. It's what keeps them alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qwm9...layer_embedded
WAIT WHAT?
@reprint of full sets with new oracle and frame would be cool - and they wouldn't be able to get sued, as these would be entirely new sets, and able to be "collected" by "collectors" not "old cards printed again the way they used to look".
Why? That assumes that everyone who is playing Legacy would simply play T2 if Legacy didn't exist. There are a lot of players in general who are not interested in playing T2. I have been playing magic since Revised and I have never played T2 other than taking a janky deck to a few FNMs here and there. I have always played T1 and now Legacy. Wizards is missing out on capitalizing on a huge potential market of players. It's bad business on their part.
If I were CEO I would be firing someone right now as it's incalculable how much potential profit they have missed out on by ignoring the huge demand for Eternal formats. Cards CAN be reprinted in a responsible manner that has a minimal impact on older card prices. In fact I would argue that if there were responsible reprints, many older cards would go up in value because they would gain more relevancy.
Wizards needs to understand that their customer base is NOT monolithic. The fact that Legacy and EDH are so popular proves this. That fact that we don't all just blindly play crappy Extended also proves that we have know what we want. People obviously want to play Legacy and T1. The fact that Wizards hasn't found a way to capitalize on this is perplexing from a business standpoint.
A healthy Eternal and T2 player base are NOT mutually exclusive. Why doesn't Wizards understand this????
I think what Death has been trying to say is, we all know that Legacy is definitely more fun than Standard, and that by printing legacy staples, more standard players may want to play Legacy... and since Legacy is an eternal format, once you get the staples, you stop buying stuff... Standard is their cash cow because it rotates every few months or so and that means people have to shell out money every few months... I'm with Death here...
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote