Hey guys,
I'm kinda new to playing Zoo to begin with. I know the deck mostly from playing against it with Goblins. Therefore I know several variants like Catsligh, Big Zoo, Naya Zoo etc. The point is that I always found that those decks (even Big Zoo) have a bad lategame. Now with Green Sun's Zenith things change and I want to give it a try.
There have been attempts to make the late game better with either Sylvan Library or Stoneforge Mystic + Eqipments. I myself saw [cards]Bloodbraid Elf[/card] in one list and I liked it. That's why I tried to combine those 5 elements to gain CA with. Here's my list:
//Lands [20]
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Plateau
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryard Arbor
//Card-Advantage / -Quality [13]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Stonefroge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sylvan Library
//Creatures [17]
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatly
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Knight of the Reliquary
//Removal [8]
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
//Sideboard [15]
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Vexing SHusher
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Explanation:
Well, I guess I dont have to explain the obvious cardchoices, but that's what I thought about the synergies and the gameplan:
* Lightning Helix > Lightning Bolt, to be able to use Sylvan Library more effectively
* Sword of Light and Shadow > other Swords, to use Sylvan Library more effectively and because I thinks B and W are the most common colors for removal right now (Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Go for the Throat, Ghastly Demise)
* 3 Bloodbraid Elves: 4 mana is a very high costs. I tested 4 copies, but that was too much for me
* only 2 Knight of the Reliquary: Most often I don't find him good enough. He usually enters the battlefield as a 3/3 or 4/4 creature. Still he's a decent creature for lategame, that's why I reduced the number to 2 (and because of GSZ of course)
* The deck is mostly G/W, red splash only for Lightning Helix and Blood braid Elf
* All fetchlands are able to fetch Dryard Arbor.
I'm not sure about the SB. That's why I need feedback not only on the MD.
Thanks.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Bloodbraid Elf isn't great to begin with and is even worse when running GSZ and Noble Hierarch. Eternal Witness as a one of does this role more effectively.
Also, you cut Lightning Bolt! What are you fucking nuts? Lightning Bolt will never be cut from Zoo.
Sword of Light and Shadow is most definitely not > the other swords. Fire and Ice is still king and War and Peace will soon make SoLS the 4th best sword. If you want life gain use Jitte.
Bloodbraid Elf and Green Sun's Zenith conflict. It's a shame you don't like Knight of the Reliquary. I think it's brilliant in Big Zoo. It might enter play small, but it can quickly grow larger than Tarmogoyf.
If you're looking for some late game stuff, you might want to try Elspeth, Knight Errant. A Karakas somewhere wouldn't hurt.
These are just some suggestions. The best thing, as always, is to test the deck and see what you like and dislike and go from there.
If you want to learn anything about Zoo, pay attention to what has been posted in response to your deck list.
From my own experience, GSZ is the new late game for Zoo. It's a relaod button that most decks aren't able to skirt. I'm glad they printed it, I haven't looked back (cat sligh is a different story)
well guys, I played a 42 man regional qualifies tornment yesterday and I make a top8. I lost to an ANT in top8.
my list was:
4 windswept heath
3 wooded foothills
2 arid mesa
3 taiga
2 savannah
2 plateau
1 horizon canoppy
1 forest
1 mountain
1 plains
4 tarmogoyf
4 wild nacatl
4 qasali pridemage
3 grim lavamancer
3 kird ape
2 knight of the reliquary
1 gaddock teeg
1 terravore
4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix
4 path to exile
3 price of progress
3 green sun zenith
sb:
1 stp
2 tariff
2 volcanic fallout
1 loaming shaman
4 REB
2 choke
2 krosan grip
1 gaddock teeg
my matches:
#1: zoo vs. ugr faries (i never seem this deck before. but he play goyf, bolt, counters and cantrips as well)
nothing to explain in this match. i beat fast and control the board with burns. the fallout close game with one spellstutter would counter my koth.
2-0
#2: zoo vs. merfolk
well... "wtf lucky i am" was i think this time. same thing happens here.
2-0
#3: zoo vs. new affinity
well... i mull to take a gsz or qasali or something would burn his creatures. this game was like that: "land, mox, ornithopter, whatever, whatever, whatever, go." -omg.
but one bolt, helix and qasali put me on game, and my pop take 10 of him. i love u pop.
game 2 he play that protection creature, then ravage and i lost. simple like that.
game 3 i oppened a god hand, with path, qasali, nacatl, goyf, bolt and lands. and draw a gsz after. well, he comes slow and i just take his creatures with my goyf, and finish with pop and bolt. simple strange match.
2-1
#4 : zoo vs. ant
well... "this game i can lost". after open 3-0 I really dont care lost here.
game 1 he beat me on turn 2. (after he win on dice)
game 2 i put on 4 REB and gaddock. but a duress on GSZ break me. I try gains a time walk with reb on a brainstorm, but he beat me on turn 3. fuck ant.
#5: zoo vs. zoo
I seem the deck of my opponent before, and he dont run pop md. Thats make all difference this game.
i control my lands, and finish him with 2 pops. gsz was great here, there take me on the board position all time.
game2 he comes fast: "turn1 - nacatl, turn 2: nacatl, ape: turn 3 koth" i try make less pressure with bolt on 1st nacatl, helix on second and path on koth. i back with goyf, but thats him time to control. :/ . path and goyf. i lost 3 turns after.
game3 i keep a questionable hand: only one windswept and 4 1drop cards. i keep and try rush him with cacatl and ape. I think was bad choise keep with this hand, cuz i think lost drop land in mirror is death. but I draw a second land in turn 3, and a 3º land on turn 4. could be better, but it could be worse. so I win cuz he dont burn my creatures more than 1 time.
#6 zoo vs. zoo (again)
my opponent just grant me, cuz he just dont care with regionals finals, and was there to take some boosters. well, dont my fault.
ok. 5-1 and go to top 8.
first game: zoo vs.............. ANT again, that same guy beated me.
nothing different happens here.
well guys. this champ had a lot of combos: cephalid, dredge, reanimate, belcher, xxXXxXXX show n tell, and 2 ant. and i think: is a great time to play zoo, these days?
Last Saturday i went 4-1-1 with a "Thundercat"-List in a 58 player event.
A friend of mine played the same maindecklist, but another sideboard and also finished 4-1-1.
Place 5+6 were the outcome, with both of us winning a revised Taiga.
2 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
//21 Land
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Knight of the Reliquary
//21 Creature
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
2 Price of Progress
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library
//18 Spell
# 60
Sideboard:
2 Krosan Grip
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Null Rod
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Umezawas Jitte
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
Pretty Standard.
#1 (old) Affinity
Dice: me
Game1: I open with Steppe Lynx, follow by Nacatl and some Path/Burn for his smaller guy and manage to win the game.
Board: some random out, +2 Grip, +2 Null Rod
Game2: Opening hand has Nacatl, Taiga, Fetch, Null Rod, Path to Exile, Tarmogoyf. KEEP. He has no answer for Null Rod and saccs some stuff into his Ravanger going to exile the next turn.
2-0
1-0-0
#2 Pro-bant
Dice: him
Game1: Kittens do their work as the push through a single Noble Hierarch and a small Tarmogoyf unable to compete with 4/5 Steppe Lynx'
Board: -1 Fireblast -2 Chain Lightning -1Qasali Pridemage +2 Red Elemental Blast +2 Gaddock Teeg
Game2: Better not talk about this. ;) Got it all under my claws. Attacking him with a huge Knight and Tarmogoyf, leaving back a lonely nacatl to block his Goyf and swing for lethal the next turn. Suprised that he is not blocking one of my threats with his dryad arbor I decide to cast Price of Progess. Well, better recount your own non-basics and wait one turn for an knight activation or just swing for lethal.... We both die to POP. Head --> Wall
Game3: Still not in a good mood about the missplay I forget to write down what happend. Presumably Kittenrush, as his Life says: 15, 14(Fetch), 9, 3, 0.
2-0-1
2-0-0
#3 Next Level Treshhold (Winning the Tournament with 6-0)
Dice: me
Game1: Stifle and Waste just leaves my Kittens little toys for his 4 maindeck Grim Lavamancer, also 3 Vendilion Clique like to have a word with my hand and my lifecount.
Game2: Same here, managed to Red Blast some of his Stifles, but the mancers just burn my cats.
0-2
2-1-0
#4 TES ()
Dice: him
Game1: I know what he was playing and kept 2 Steppe Lynx, 3 Fetchlands, Fireblast, Chain Lightning. He Cantrips his first and second turn, but got me on his third turn. :(
Board: -4 Path to Exile -2 Knight of the Reliquary +2 Null Rod +2 Gaddock Teeg +2Ethersworn Canonist
Game2: Mulligan to 6 and landing a Canonist turn 2 is win. :)
Game3: He keeps a slow hand and I land Null Rod on the second turn followed by a (topdecked) Gaddock Teeg the next turn. He has no answers and I win. :)
2-1
3-1-0
#5 Lands
Dice: me
Game1: He controls the board and my cats just get lost in 2 Maze of Ith, but he didn't see Price of Progress Maindeck coming, taking 14 damage.
Board: -4 Path to Exile -1 Steppe Lynx +2Krosan Grip +2 Null Rod +1 Bojuka Bog
Game2: He has Zuran Orb in his starting 6 (after Mulligang) and transmutes Tolaria West into Tabernacle. He makes a little mistake in not using his Orb after 2 Wild Nacatl and some Lavamancer activations get him down to 8.End of turn I activate Lavamcer, in my upkeep I did not pay the cost for the Tabernacle, Griped his Orb, Activate Lavamancer and Fireblast him out of the game.
Never thought I would win this one, as the Player is well known for his good performance with Lands.
2-0
4-1-0
#6
We decide to draw, as we play in the basement of the shop and there was neither air-conditioning nor windows. With that draw we both were in the tops and got a dual. ;)
4-1-1
It was the third time I took this list to a tournamet and I am still very satisfied with the performance of this deck.
Maindeck Price of Progress was awesome (forget about the misplay vs. Bant^^)
MWP of the day was Null Rod. Seriously, play that damn card.
What I'm still considering is to cut the Red Elemental Blast for Choke, as they were underwhelming, they just traded 1:1, where Choke can win games on it's own.
Things I also like to think about:
- 1 Wasteland in the Sideboard against Lands (Tabernacle, Maze, Glacial Chasm...)
- Combust in the Sideboard against small Knight of the Reliquary, Rhox War Monk, Kira and other blue/white creatures that are very annoying
- Improving my english as i found it hard to write this text in english^^
Is english not your first language? I certainly couldn't tell.Originally Posted by justMAD
Congrats on the performance, I may have to get myself some Null Rods
Congratulations to both of you.
Some comments: In the first list, I'd say 4 Blasts and 2 Chokes are overkill. Regarding the second list, I like the mainboard a lot. What are the Jittes in the sideboard for though? You could cut a fetch for a Wasteland. 11 fetches should still be enough to use Steppe Lynx effectively.
Our local Meta contains a lot of random aggro-builds with Jitte and I simply don't like to trade random dudes with Path or burn. ;)
I know it is overkill most of the time.
Next tournament I will test Wasteland Maindeck, thanks for the advice.
As a little additon, here is the sideboard my friend played:
3 combust
3 choke
1 umezawa's jitte
3 krosan grip
2 gaddock teeg
1 bojuka bog
1 wasteland
1 karakas
Not exactly new to Zoo, but I've had a few rounds against them. I built the deck for my friend and she loves it, and I've always asked myself what the scoop is. This is the deck I've built, I don't really do tournaments, I just have decks for a friends to play with. I go to tournaments on rare occasion and I was about trying Zoo.
Zoo:
Creatures: 22
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Mother of Runes
3x Qasali Pridemage
2x Gaddock Teeg
4x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Grim Lavamancer
Artifacts: 5
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Behemoth Sledge
Sorcery: 2
2x Chain Lightning
Instant: 12
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
2x Fireblast
Lands: 19
3x Mountain
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Raging Ravine
2x Taiga
2x Plateau
4x Wooded Foothills
S/B:
4x Price of Progress
2x Blood Moon
2x Pyrostatic Pillar
1x Balefire Leige
3x Choke
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Qasali Pridemage
Discussion Cards:
Stoneforge Mystic - I am unsure if I should be picking these up and using for my Equipment. Especially with more future So's coming out. If not mystic, then why not Enlightened Tutor. I'm not sure if Zoo based decks run it, I do not see it fitting.
Grim Lavamancer - I'm trying to acquire at least 1-2 more of these. I'd be looking to cut 1x Mother of Runes and 1x Bloodbraid Elf.
Bloodbraid Elf - Again, not sure if Zoo would typically run this, but I am generally glad to be casting it. Digs to my equipment quicker and most times, most, it gives me something I can. It clashes with Swords on rare occasion, but I have always favored them. Mayhap 4x is a bit much, is a reason to looking to replace 1 with Grim Lavamancer.
Null Rod - Was looking to add 2x to my S/B or it I'd need more.
Phyrexian Revoker vs Pithing Needle - Would it be useful? Could name Vial, Stoneforge, Lands, etc.
Baneslayer Angel - I'm aware that Big Zoo runs this, and I think it's nice, but the Equipment just end up doing a lot more.
I have followed the thread a bit. Just taking a better step into the thread I guess you can say.
Last edited by ZeinVoncy; 04-14-2011 at 01:05 PM.
There's three standard camps when it comes to Zoo:
1-Sligh - It runs Steppe Lynx, lots of burn, and even Goblin guide for some people. It's pretty quick, as consistent as Zoo gets, and is good for a control/spell oriented meta game
2- Traditional Zoo - There's some number of Kird Ape/Loam Lion. It eschews speed for more consistency. Maybe there's a SFM package for an inevitable long game. Good for a soft meta game, one with ~50% match ups across the board.
3- Big Zoo - Noble Hierarch and Wastelands set this version out. It's also ludacris to not run Green Sun's Zenith. Swords over Path, and less burn because Big Zoo isn't trying to get the opponent low then burn them out like Sligh/Traditional Zoo. Good for creature oriented meta games. Lots of goblins/merfolk/junk/bant decks? Sleeve this up (or play Storm if you really want to win)
There's a version of the deck out there for everyone, and one is easily adapted to fill another roll. Good luck!
wheres goyfs or knight of the reliquaries at? behemoth sledge IMO shouldnt be in the list, so i would personally take out 1 jitte and that sledge and slide in 2 stoneforge mystics.
Bloodbraid is decent but it looks like you are trying to play Big Zoo.... so IMO i would take her out and put in 2 elspeths and throw in 2 of something else. Again, where are Goyfs at?? Zoo isnt Zoo without creatures like Goyf and Knight.... afterall, Zoo is about running the cheapest mana cost creatures in the game of magic with lots of power and toughness to boot.
Excluding goyf and knight makes the deck more like another Naya deck...
EDIT: also, raging ravine is kinda on the slow side.... it'll probably get wastedlanded before its benefits of +1 counters become relevant too... so i'd probably run treetop village over that. and if u run equipment in zoo, you need to run SFM.... pick her up now while shes still on the cheap. future sets will always come out with new equipment, and so her prices will always stay up, i predicted this when she was still $5 a pop, and i was right too hence i own 2 playsets of her... and if you must run 3 equipment, i'd put in Basilisk collar over the behemoth sledge, makes your oppeonents think hard about blocking your nacatls with their 5/6 goyfs...
Tarmogoyf and Grim Lavamancer don't mix well IMO, so that's why I'm not running Goyf. Tarmogoyf is good, but it is generally a 2/3, 3/4 by time he gets cast and is generally dealt with. I could add him and give it a shot, maybe S/B the Pridemages or something.
Knight of the Reliquary is overrated. I've used him in Standard, Extended and in my Junk Rock and he really is overrated. He's a decent 3cc, and in my build I'm not using many nonbasics that fetches can already grab, or utility lands like Wastelands. I like having the amount of basics I have so I don't screwed over by Stifle, Wasteland or Blood Moon. I'm more reliant on R then any other color.
Behemoth Sledge actually helps out a lot. Making my smaller dudes bigger and giving me life to survive late games. I use Umezawa's Jitte more to control my opponents creature base and to pump for dmg. Trying to use Jitte for all 3 ability just spreads it out too much.
As stated, considering Stoneforge Mystic to fetch my equipment, trying to get them nowadays is getting hard since they've blown up in price. Never should have traded the ones I had.
I understand there's a few Zoo based deck that slightly differ from each other, but how is Naya compared to Zoo?
First things first, please fix your writing. Capital letters, proper punctuation and all that stuff makes your posts much more enoyable to read and you'll be taken serious. Eventually.
And what drives the price of SFM up is not Legacy or Extended by any means, it's Standard - SFM is a 4-of in the best Standard deck right now. Once she rotates, she'll probably drop back to 5-7 per copy.
And if you run 3 equipments, Jitte + SoFaI + SoLaS > all.
This looks like a job for me.
Most of my posts will be written from my phone, so please excuse the eventual lack of proper typing.
i dont expect ppl to take my post seriously, im just saying what i gota say which is what i said about his decklist. but since you are so smart, in punctuation and in the stock market of predecting magic cards, maybe you can clearify it that Goyfs are an auto-include in a Zoo deck. stoneforge is gonna stay around the $20 range tho for sure... just look at bob, in standard he was only $10 or so, but in legacy, which is the only format hes allowed in right now other than vintage, hes $15 and upwards now... standard doesnt keep card prices high for the long run BTW....
If you started using proper spelling, grammar and punctuation then people "might" start listening to you.
You just play a plethora of "different" cards. Your list plays 5 equipments, 19 land, and 8 Bloodbraid Elf/Mother of Runes. You're playing your own homebrew version, and that's fine, but this is the DTB forum. How well that deck does against your friends is unimportant. What matters is how it does against the Legacy metagame, and why your choices are superior to the traditional builds.
I'll tell you right now, that saying Tarmogoyf isn't good enough because he conflicts with your 1 Grim Lavamancer, just isn't going to fly here.
Okay, at first I assumed you weren't playing Tarmogoyf because you don't have access to him. If you have a playset available and can use it, then there's abolutely no reason not to. In fact, I highly recommend you do so. The problem with Grim Lavamancer and him is, in reality, not an issue at all. Also, don't sideboard the Pridemages. For your build (without Green Sun's Zenith), stick with four in the mainboard.
Definitely add more Grim Lavamancers as soon as you get them.
I agree that Stoneforge Mystic should come in if you're set on playing equipment. However, five pieces of equipment strike me as excessive. I'd cut one Jitte to begin with and move some combination of the Swords and Behemoth Sledge to the sideboard.
If you have more fetches, play them instead of so many basics. And as troopatroop pointed out, more lands would be good. Test with 21/22 to begin with, then go from there.
As far as I know, Naya refers to RGW decks (or more correctly, to that colour combination). Zoo is sometimes called Naya Zoo. There are basically no decks packing these colours without Tarmogoyf and without at least some number of Knight of the Reliquary. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I hope that helped a bit.
EDIT. About Knight of the Reliquary: I really like this card. To support it, you would need to play more fetches. At least six, I'd say. Even if you have no utility lands to fetch with Knight, you can always grab fetches to make it larger. Traditional Zoo lists typically don't run four copies of it because it's a bit on the slower side; they want to be attacking and usually not tapping to find lands (the only utility lands they play are usually Horizon Canopy and Karakas, perhaps only in the sideboard, but you only need Karakas in special situations). In more midrange builds like yours with Noble Hierarch, I don't recall I've ever seen a list without four Knights. I won't go into all the reasons why I think the card is amazing right now. Give it another try. Don't forget you need more fetches first though.
you are correct BTW. Zoo requires Goyfs and atleast a few knights.... without these guys (small CC for Big Threat) fish will just take you nacatls and bloodbraid elfs lightly and build up their army til they got like 2-3 lords on board... and when that happens (in the rare case where he dont draw removal because he also dont run Sylvan Library) it will be game over quickly
Proper spelling and capitalization is something you agreed to use when you signed up to post. If that's something too difficult for you, you can always leave. Racist remarks aren't helping you.
Zein, Zoo without Tarmogoyf is just not good, and the bad interaction with Lavamancer doesn't really exist. There's no reason not to run it.
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