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Thread: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

  1. #4701
    The word is "Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa!"
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I actually like the Wish version against Dredge and combo, if you run Rav and MB Trap side. Ravenous Trap is your only hope to win game one against Dredge, and coupled with other hate it makes games two and three much better compared to Wishless versions I've tested (3 Relics or Crypts by themselves are generally not enough to beat Dredge, and I hate wasting more space in the side). After side, I have 6 anti graveyard cards in the form of Extirpate, Relic, Tutor, and the three Wish into Ravenous Trap.

    Wish into Mindbreak Trap is surprisingly effective against TES. TES generally doesn't combo off in the early turns against you for several reasons, the main one being they don't want to unless they nut draw you with a fast hand + protection; (and they don't need to go off early, because of our glacial clock) they don't want to go all in unprotected on something like Wish+LED or Infernal+LED. The matchup is still unfavorable if the storm player has any sort of intelligence, but MBT helps a lot.

    People argue Wish cards take up slots from other cards, but if a couple of those cards were put in to fight those specific decks such as TES or Dredge, (let's say 2 Relics instead of 1 Relic, 1 Rav Trap, or 3 Canonist instead of 2 and a MBTrap) you're generally better off doing the split, since Wish allows you to run "more" copies of hate cards in the form of hate plus 2 or 3 Wish, while gaining access to them game one.
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  2. #4702

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I'd Love try Vindicate in the deck as a 2 of. Some time ago i'd tried it and i liked. Nowadays does it worth?

  3. #4703
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    @Shawn: I agree with you, because Wish has allowed me to beat a ton of decks when it resolves. However, being primarily a wishstill player, I'm trying to look outside the box and think if those wins were the illusions of "I win this tough matchup with wish, therefore Wish is good". The truth is, Wish is still fundamentally a turn behind decks like Dredge/combo. The wins created by Wish against those decks maybe giving a false sense of security against those decks when in fact Wish may not be ideal against those decks. Personally, I keep Wishes against TES/combo, but I still always feel fearful when I do, because even if I draw a hand of FoW, they can almost always go turn 1 Duress, turn 2 win if they need to. I feel that against matchups like Dredge/combo, Wish is good because we have other cards pairing it up to slow them down to turn 3. Did Wish really win those matchups for us? Or was it the card that was wished for winning those matchups? Would it have been better to just play a straightforward sideboard e.g. 2 or more copies of the spell you're wishing for, which technically removes the belief that Wish increases the chances you draw such a spell. I have no doubt Wish is great game 1. And I still like Wishbuilds, but I'm just trying to think whether Wish was mainly successful because opposing decks were fundamentally slower, which increases its power.

    @Vindicate:
    It's a great card and was successful. I think it'll continue to be successful but maybe not optimal unless you have a list that plays it optimally e.g. Speedstill (which in some sense plays like Tempo decks but without creatures lol).

    I mean Vindicate is successful in Junk, but that doesn't translate to being as successful inLandstill. Fundamentally, you want to avoid tapping out on your turns unless you have mana open. Junk can afford tapping out because the nature of the deck is discard, and pick off anything on the board and win with creatures, but for Landstill, your main stability comes from countering spells, and at the right time sneak your win-condition and win.

    Vindicate is just very flexible, and that's its biggest strength. Currently I'm dropping the 4th color in my UWx build and give up on fetching 4 colors against opposing Jaces. I figured that I'll let Factories do the work. If you play Vindicate, that's another big strength to hit Planeswalkers without playing 4 colors. I'll post a report after today's tourney, bringing the old Landstill back again. Hopefully I don't draw double factories in opening hand too often.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  4. #4704

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Vindicate demands tapping as well as EE. That was my reasoning. Vindicates doesn't ask us a "fragile" mana base with a 4th color to deal with pw!
    I'm not saying that EE is not needed off course.

  5. #4705
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    List I played yesterday, going 4-1 splitting top 4.

    24 Lands:
    1 Wasteland
    4 Mishra's Factory
    1 Academy Ruins
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Marsh Flats
    3 Tundra
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    2 Island
    2 Plains

    Draw/Tutors: 11
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 ETutor
    3 Standstill

    Win Conditions: 6
    3 Jace TMS
    2 Elspeth
    1 Crucible

    Removal: 10
    3 EE
    4 StP
    1 WoG
    1 Humility
    1 Nevinryall's Disk

    Permission: 10
    3 Spell Snare
    3 Counterspell
    4 Force of Will

    SB:
    3 Counterbalance
    2 Ethersworn Canonist (mainly to up the 2cmc to 11 count postboard v.s. decks where CB is needed)
    2 Path to Exile
    2 Perish
    2 Peacekeeper
    2 Extirpate
    2 Relic of Progenitus

    MATCH 1: Junk
    Don't remember much but both games involve hitting land drops and winning with Elspeth. Game 2 he opened with Duress + Mox Diamond + Thoughtseize taking Spell Snare and Perish and I have double plow for 2 creatures. He had a SDT in play and after bouncing to play Vindicate Elspeth which I forced, I countered his SDT next turn and he loses to my SDT in play.

    MATCH 2: NO Bant
    Game 1: He keeps a counter-heavy hand and I put him on New Horizons (no early threats). I play around Daze/Stifle and hit 4 land drops, put a Jace down. He Natural Orders and I force and he pierce (I have 1 land untapped). NO resolves and he puts me on a 2 turn clock. Jace dug 8 cards with 2 fetchlands and a brainstorm for another 4 cards to grab a Humility winning the game.

    Game 2: He cannot fight past double StP, WoG, Perish, Disk that I resolved accordingly. Elspeth seals it up

    MATCH 3: Hypergenesis
    Game 1: He turn 2 Hypergenesis in response to Standstill which I force, he has the force as well.
    Game 2: I board in +3 Counterbalance, +2 Canonist, +2 Extirpate, +2 Peacekeeper, +2 Perish (all awesome against this deck), but he turn 2's me again. No FoW = lose. This matchup is always kinda 50-50, slightly in my favor game 2, but if they draw the nuts, you can't do much

    MATCH 4: Meandeck MUD
    Game 1: The start of the game was hilarious. I keep a mediocore hand but it had Spell Snare + Wasteland anticipating his Tomb->Monolith. He goes Ancient Tomb + Monolith, I snare it, then Waste his tomb next turn. He topdeck lands like a champ (City of Traitors/Great Furnace) and puts up a good fight. Turn 4 Jace is brutal against Meandeck MUD. We play out a pretty long game, ETutor -> Disk with some StP and he scoops it up.
    Game 2: He mulls to 6, goes Ancient Tomb Monolith MW. Seems good. My hand is Counterspell, Land, Spell Snare and no StP. I didn't draw StP, he reveals with MW into Lodestone + Myr Battlesphere on turn 2. Seems good. Hit 4 lands, no WoG/Humility = GG
    Game 3: I draw a hand of 2 Fetches, 1 Spell Snare, 2 StP, 1 Standstill, Brainstorm + stuff. I told him this hand is the nuts against him. He leads with monolith and I snare. Then drop Standstill, he cracks. Over the next 4 cards that I drew (including Standstill), I have a full set of StP. Jace comes down and he can't beat StP lol.

    MATCH 5: don't remember this match at all

    Split Top 4.

    Comments: I do miss Wish because testing 4 games against combo yesterday, I realized that my opponents seldom go off turn 2 (since they want to go off protected). Wish does increase the blue count, and gives some flexibility, but at the same time, I did enjoy the slightly more straightforward SB.

    2 Perish + 1 WoG + 1 Disk (i.e. 2 WoG effect) is simply amazing and dense against any decks playing green creatures.

    I might want to up the Peacekeeper count to 3, as more dense outs to Merfolks and Show and Tell/Hypergenesis/NO decks.

    Counterbalance SB against combo testing was neat. Definitely worthwhile for the fast combo matchup, and possible Enchantress/Sligh/Burn when that crops up. I never felt the need for it game 1, since my metagames (or the general metagame) is still primarily creature-based.

    The lone Disk over the 2nd WoG was really nice in testing. Both games against Meandeck MUD it was the game-winning card, forcing them to be unable to play around it while nuking all their accelerants leaving them with just 1-2 lands in play. It's probably amazing against Affinity, and it was still decent against Bant when I played it. It's essentially a Deedfor color-tight UWx builds since you rarely can pop Deed on the same turn you play it, so passing the turn drawback applies for both. Disk has some benefit to kill ANYTHING (Emrakul/Progenitus), and has nice synergy with Ruins (this is win-more but there's the option and I used that option once against Meandeck MUD).
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  6. #4706
    Tap 2, Standstill. Good?
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Metalwalker, how about Oblivion Stone instead of Disk to wipe the entire board, taking opponent's planeswalkers too? After all, they both activate on turn 5, but at least Oblivion seems more reliable in late game where you have lots of lands in play, as you can activate the turn it comes into play; and for the same reason it seems better with Academy Ruins recursion, too.

    Edit: if you are running Tutors, I'd really play a singleton Aura Flux in sb, it owns Enchantress pretty nicely.
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  7. #4707
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by kiblast View Post
    Metalwalker, how about Oblivion Stone instead of Disk to wipe the entire board, taking opponent's planeswalkers too? After all, they both activate on turn 5, but at least Oblivion seems more reliable in late game where you have lots of lands in play, as you can activate the turn it comes into play; and for the same reason it seems better with Academy Ruins recursion, too.

    Edit: if you are running Tutors, I'd really play a singleton Aura Flux in sb, it owns Enchantress pretty nicely.
    Oblivion Stone sucks. You want to be able to sweep the board and then drop Standstill. Disk sweeps for 1 Mana, Oblivion Stone for 5, so chances are little that you will be able to drop Standstill afterwards AND have Counterspell-/SpellSnare-Mana open.

    btw. I played the Wafo-List yesterday and barely made top8 with 4-2, losing against the top2 players (Springtide and UR Merfolk). I didn't really knew that Merfolk was such a bad matchup (although getting lucksacked away with 4 Wastelands and 3 Mutavault in both g1 and g2 was devastating for my blood pressure). And Sprintide... well, I was colorscrewed and wasn't able to find white mana with SDt to drop my 3 Meddling Mages, so I guess that was bad luck. The matchup is still not in my favor.

    I guess I have to play Wastelands again and maybe neglect the 3rd color Splash for it. I'm not really sure anymore.
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  8. #4708
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Yeah Adan puts the point of Disk v.s. Ostone well. But to be fair, the only time I ever played OStone in Legacy was in MUC, and it still kinda sucked since it was way too mana intensive. The only problem with Oblivion Stone is that it's only better than Disk if you're not dying i.e. you can afford to play it turn 3, then activate it EOT when you need to. Usually, you are almost always forced to activate it on their attack step (legacy aggro decks want to kill you in general) so they can make their second main phase drops by playing out more spells. Disk comes down a turn slower so that's the drawback, but once it untaps, it blows the board for 1, giving you mana to either counter their spells or let you blow your own disk up on your own turn and setup with Planeswalkers/Standstill. Sometimes, mana efficiency is another factor to consider v.s. slower cards. The same way Deed is in general stronger than Disk, but the pro-side of Disk is that it's very mana efficient as a sweeper (a recurrable one and tutorable one too!)

    Adan. I made some Wafo-list (only change was -3rd Jace, -2nd Humility +1 Cunning WIsh) with a SB of Peacekeeper and EPlagues against merfolks 3 weeks ago. I get roflpwned by the same Waste waste Mutavaultx100 with Lords + endless counterspells. They were not even netting cards with STandstills/adepts, but just drew into early counters, followed by multiple lords and 2 mutavaults in play. The deck is dumb and is the only deck in Legacy that pisses me off i.e. for some reason they always get the nut draws.. Anyway end of rant: 3 Peacekeeper does the job well. Tapo's manabase is amazing. I have kept the 8th fetch originally playing 7 but found that 8 fetchlands is crucial to beating Wastelands and fetching basics. You can play around Tempo decks stifle very well due to your high land count and you are never in a rush to crack your fetches against tempo decks most of the time (since they play like 8 threats and you play like 10 removals + Tops + Planeswalkers? lol)

    And I don't understand the people who don't play Landstill saying it's wrong to play Standstill into a Noble Hierarch... I'll take 19 damage from Noble Hierarch all day under my Standstill. As long as I make my land drops I'm fine, and as long as I draw Factories under my STandstill before I die lol. There was once I was really forced to crack my Standstill after taking 12 damage from Hierarch, but I still did so EOT. Shit happens sometimes. Am I not supposed to lead Standstill against a Hierarch in most cases? (I know that the particular bant list did not play Wastelands MD but he had like 2 Arbors)
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  9. #4709
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    List I played yesterday, going 4-1 splitting top 4.
    Win Conditions: 6
    3 Jace TMS
    2 Elspeth
    1 Crucible
    Nice list and good job on the finish!!

    How was it using 3 Jace> Did you ever wish you had 2 and then something else such as FoF?

  10. #4710
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Thanks! I used to play 5 win-conditions (2 Jace, 2 Elspeth, 1 Crucible) and 4 Factories.

    I switched to 3 Jace when I was rethinking on the value of the 4th Counterspell v.s. the 3rd Jace. I would love to have 11 MD Permission against most decks game 1, but I felt that in the end, just drawing Jace and protecting him was going to win more games than the 4th Counterspell did. Of course, I've done testing with 2-3 Jaces and usually liked 2 Jaces. But I went online to check for winning lists (most lists played 3 Jace, 2 Elspeth), so I had to rethink again, whether it was easier to win games with Jace or the 11th Permission spell. I used to play 3 Jace, but cut the 3rd Jace for a Crucible. Now that the Crucible is one of the more important cards when games drag on, both as a win-condition to ensure you don't run out of Factories, but it's a crucial card in mid-range or control decks.

    I'm happy with 3 Jaces for now, and I will continue to test/play with it. I love FoF, and even own 2 signed foil copies (very pretty signed card with TNielson's golden signature :D), but I'm not sure if FoF is more powerful over the 3rd Jace. Now that I'm playing quite a lot of sweepers, I might test out FoF again. FoF can also create those nightmare headaches where the opponent put a 1 Jace 4 card pile and you pick up the 4 cards only to cast the Jace in your hand :P
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  11. #4711
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    And I don't understand the people who don't play Landstill saying it's wrong to play Standstill into a Noble Hierarch... I'll take 19 damage from Noble Hierarch all day under my Standstill. As long as I make my land drops I'm fine, and as long as I draw Factories under my STandstill before I die lol. There was once I was really forced to crack my Standstill after taking 12 damage from Hierarch, but I still did so EOT. Shit happens sometimes. Am I not supposed to lead Standstill against a Hierarch in most cases? (I know that the particular bant list did not play Wastelands MD but he had like 2 Arbors)
    I'd run out a turn two Standstill on the play against a turn 1 Noble Hierarch. On the draw, however, if the opponent didn't cast anything on turn 2, I wouldn't run out Standstill. You'll want to be untapped if they go for turn 3 Natural Order.
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  12. #4712

    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Here's the list I have from back when Survival was around, I'm looking to update it (I've been in a hiatus from Magic since then):

    Land:
    3 Island
    2 Plains
    4 Tundra
    1 Underground Sea
    2 Wasteland
    1 Academy Ruins
    3 Mishra's Factory
    1 Karakas (aka Cool Iona/Emrakul, Bro.)
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta

    Distinctly-not-land:
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Counterspell
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Spell Snare (this is a relic from the Survival metagame, may come out for a 4th Standstill or MD Enlightened Tutor)
    4 Force of will
    3 Cunning Wish
    3 Standstill
    2 Fact or Fiction
    2 Wrath of God
    2 Engineered Explosives
    1 Humility
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    2 Decree of Justice
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Eternal Dragon

    Sideboard:
    1 Extirpate
    2 Path to Exile
    1 Return to Dust
    1 Pulse of the Fields
    1 Negate
    1 Wing Shards
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Ravenous Trap
    1 Stifle
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Peacekeeper

  13. #4713
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    So kicking off with the Mental Misstep deal:

    {PU} Instant
    {PU} can be paid with either 2 life or U.
    Counter target spell with cmc 1.

    Now, granted that this gives Landstill a huge boost to our nemesis vial decks, it is still fairly limited in scope for the deck considering what Spell SNare is more capable of. In general, outside of Vial, Landstill is still primarily afraid of cards that are 2cmc: Goyf/Pridemage/Bob/Chalice@1 etc.

    I do think that Landstill maybe forced to play this card, not as an out to Vial decks, but as an answer to opposing Vial decks that are most likely going to playing Mental Misstep themselves. Vial decks would be wanting to play this card, both as a safeguard against Misstep, but also against EE@1 and multiple other spells e.g. StP.

    I'm not sure how things will turn out, but I can't help imagining and getting my mind blown away by how this spoiled card may change the mechanics on how we think about deck matchups. It's no longer as simple as FoWing the Vial or EE'ing the Vial. Also, I see Landstill getting weakened more by opposing Mental Misstep than benefiting from playing its own playset. Your StPs are no longer as safe as they were if opponents are playing this spell, and on your side paying 2 life is more costly than an aggro deck paying 2 life.

    Thoughts? This card is really blowing me away. I might just play Tempo decks and not worry about how to deal with this crap :P

    although shifting from Counterspell/Spell Snare split to Mental Misstep/Spell Snare suite gives the deck less flexibility, but a lot more fighting power in the early game. Maybe a 3/2/2 split of Mental Misstep/Snare/Counterspell would be good enough?
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  14. #4714
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I am very exciting about this card in Landstill. First and foremost it answers Vial, and does a nice job of skirting around Daze if you are on the play. It also happens to answer cards in matchups where Snare is weak, namely Goblins, Dredge, and some other matchups as well. I am much more concerned about Vial than I am a Goyf, Bob, or Counterbalance. Also, it hits Top, which is the better part of the CBTop lock against us.


    (if you are afraid of Misstep hitting EE @ 1, just add another mana of the same color to the EE so the sunburst is the same, but the cmc=2)
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  15. #4715
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    @Shawn, came back from a work meeting, and my mind was wandering around thinking of misstep in landstill, and I realized, I really don't feel 2cmc spells unless it's a Hymn. Everything else I fear 1cmc spells much more than 2cmc (most 2cmc bombs are creatures, which are answered by EE/StP).

    The biggest strength of Snare was being able to have an efficient counter on the draw where Counterspell was weak. Misstep fulfills the same philosophy except it happens yet a turn earlier than Snare on 1cmc spells i.e. turn 0. Being able to catch Top/Vial/Nactl/Thoughtseize/Putrid Imp/Lackey on turn 0 is much more safer than catching Goyf/Bob/Counterbalance on turn 2 (given that you have more ways to get out of 2cmc spells than the 1 cmc spells listed).

    I'll be dropping 3 Snares and probably test out 3-4 copies of this card. This will shore up a lot of valuable matchup, namely Dredge/Bant/Gobs (all have been decent but Dredge was still tough on the draw). What I'm REALLY terrified is Merfolks playing 4 Missteps. This will probably be an even harder matchup despite the fact that both Merfolks and Landstill will be packing missteps.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  16. #4716
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    As control UWx decks player I'm more scared of mental mistep in my opponents' hands than how I would like it in my deck.because I don't like my StP to be countered.

    vial decks are not a problem for UWx control decks....
    If you play peacekeeper. peacekeeper stops merfolk and it is difficult to be countered (pierce and cathcer are useless vs peacekeeper).
    If you don't play peacekeeper (4X) You'll lose often vs merfolk. If you play you'll wn evevry game you see it.
    try to believe.

  17. #4717
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    Peacekeeper is great, no need to argue about this, but her big drawback is the fact that we can't use our drawengine (Standstill) efficient while he's in play (except of course if we have Jace allready besides him, but in this case we are allready far enough ahead). Comparing her to a card like Preacher, who is good with and wihtout a Standstill in play, she lacks that last bit of strengh.
    I can agree 100% that, if he sticks, Merfolk has a hard time so kill him, however they can still you Pierce, Ciuse, Daze and FoW to stop the real gamewinners (i.e. Jace and Elspeth). And if they they are smart enough they can grind it out (somebody might call this lame or even go so far to call it stalling but if've seen players walking on the small edge of what is allowed and what isn't).

    Again I love Peacekeeper (as much as I love Preacher), they are both powerfull and fun cards to play, but neither on them is superior to each other, as they both have there own playstyle and favorit MU's.
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    good points.

    I play peacekeeper 3/4X sideoard in a UWB control deck which uses 4 baneslayer and 3 jace TMS as finishers and 4 esper charm as draw engine (even 50% of the time I make opponent discard. I usually side out 4 angels when I side in peacekeeper) so I have no experience in having problems with peacekeeper + standstill, but every times I dropped peacekeeper my opponent scooped few turns later and I didn't even needed to let jace in to the win.

    The difference between peacekeeper and preacher (or merieke ri berit which I wouldn't play couse to karakas) is that the first one says "game over" for the opponent, while the second doesn't. it just helps greatly our game but it's not as "ultimate" as peacekeeper
    (if in both case opponent does not kill our creature)

    Do you guys think landstill will have more problems resolving a standstill if mental misstep gets popular?

    my self I'm testing encreasing the Swiords to plowshares effects in my deck to avoid the problem.

    list:
    22 lands (8 fetchs 1 tundra 1 sea 1 scrubland 1 karakas 6 island 3 plains 1 swamp)
    4 baneslayer
    3 jace tms
    2 glen elendra mage
    4 brainstorm
    3 ponder
    4 esper charm
    4 force of will
    3 counterspell
    4 swords to plowshares
    3 engineered explosives
    2 wrath of god
    2 path to exile <--- new entry !
    side:
    3 peacekeeper
    2 meddling mage
    2 vendilion clique
    2 back to basics
    2 relic
    1 extiirpate
    1 elspeth KE
    1 vindicate
    1 envelop <-- to face all combo tutors natural order, show and tell and rock's spells (it's my counter n°8 but I have esper charm which is awesome vs combos)

    I know my deck has few things in common to landstill. but I believe UWx control decks in general have to face very similar problems

  19. #4719
    (previously Metalwalker)
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    4 Baneslayer Angel with 22 lands??? O_O I have not tested your list but I'll say that even with that manabase you will be having a tough time resolving Baneslayers, not to mention multiple baneslayers being dead early. I personally like Baneslayer in Legacy but I feel that in a deck like Landstill, it's not worth fighting their removal with your countermagic, especially when you're burned low on countermagic in the early game.

    Do you guys think landstill will have more problems resolving a standstill if mental misstep gets popular?
    I originally thought that Misstep spells bad news for Landstil i.e. hits our StP etc. But after some deep thinking (spent about 2 hours brewing lists and reflecting the implication on Misstep for non-CBTop control decks in Legacy) and with some affirmation from Shawn, I am sold with Missteps being a huge boost to Landstill, rather than a bane.

    The reasons are simple:
    1) If everyone starts playing Missteps, then it is only more important to play Missteps to not lose to the tempo/advantage that oppossing missteps is generating.
    2) If your opponent isn't playing Missteps e.g. Goblins and other deck-tight decks, then you wiill have a stronger FoW 5-8 when it comes to specifically countering 1cmc spells.
    3) Misstep is tremendous against Vial decks. Sure say they Misstepp'd your Misstep, it's all fair, but Landstill will just simply fight the fight on beating vial like it has always done so in the past e.g. with EE. At least you know that's one less Misstep for your StP/Brainstorm.
    4) Misstep tremendously boosts the power of Standstill on the play. You can now counter a 1cmc creature with Misstep and lead with a Standstill even if you don't have hands with StP, or if you do have StP, you can save that for post-standstill.
    5) Misstep significantly boosts the Goblin, Dredge, Thoughtseize.dec, Top.dec matchups, which are historically 50-50 matchups at best preboard.
    6) Landstill has always been a deck very vulnerable in the early game. The ability to play Missteps as an early game counter with minimal resources, countering some of the worst cards that tend to beat landstill decks (namely Thoughtseize/Duress, Lackey, Vial, Top) is a huge step to making the deck have a fighting power in the early game. I'm not listing those 1cmc spells for sake of listing. E.g. When an opponent Thoughtseizes a Landstill v.s. a Counterbalance player, the thoughtseize is going to kill the landstill player more than the Countertop player simply because cards mean a lot more to Landstill players than they mean to Countertop players, who rely on an engine that generates them pseudo card advantage whereas in Landstill we are more fragile to getting our best spell removed. Similarly, it is an uphill battle to fight against decks playing Top/Vial, because Landstill is fundamentally running specific answers, rather than a general set of answers as seen in other controllish decks e.g. Countertop/Junk etc.

    I would say that the most relevant point are points 4) and 6). Every other point is dependent on whether opponents are playing Missteps, the nature of their decks etc. TLDR; Missteps gives you huge advantages over decks that don't play Missteps, while breaking even against decks that do pack Missteps. For Landstill, the additional benefit is making Standstill on the play much stronger than before.
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  20. #4720
    The word is "Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa!"
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    Re: [Deck] UW(x) Landstill

    I took a very similar list to the one I took to the GPT to a small tourney today, getting first and walking away with $50 cash. I squeezed two Cliques in place of a Hydroblast and a Tsabo's Decree as I saw there was a bunch of combo there. I played against the following decks:

    Elves! (2-1) Game one I drew a bunch of lands and counters after he amassed a horde, game two I had multiple sweepers and Humility, game three I kill a bunch of guys and resolve Jace after he mulliganed to five.

    UW Landstill Counterbalance Walkers (2-0) Pretty simple, I drew out counters which enabled me to win the Jace war, countered some Tops, and set up Crucible+Waste both games. Clique was awesome here, allowing for a test spell EOT and allowed me to resolve Crucible or Jaces on my turn.

    UG Cloudpost (2-1) Game one I Extirpated Cloudpost and was aggressive with counters on Crop Rotation, g2 I have some counters and Clique, but it reveals Eye of Ugin. G3 was similar to game one, but with Clique.

    Enchantress (0-2) I had two Deeds game one, but one was O'Ringed and I couldn't activate the second for enough before he won because of a Suppression Field. G2 I had the Deed, but he had Replenish and I drew dead for a bunch of turns.

    Enchantress (2-0) G1 I counter an Argothian, G2 I counter his first three spells, EE for one to cripple his mana, Spellbomb his yard away in response to Replenish counter two more spells, and kill him with Clique.

    Bant Aggro (2-0) T2 Standstill resolved, I assembled Crucible. Jace bounces Knight and I EE away a Noble so he can't cast it for several turns and by that time I found a Counterspell. G2 I kill a bunch of guys, resolve Jace and win at a relatively high life total.
    Last edited by Shawn; 04-24-2011 at 12:36 AM.
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