[SCD] Mental Misstep

[kiblast]

If you use the reasoning that Mistep makes Mystical Tutor weaker, then it can said of DC (maybe not Ancestral, but yeah I was being an ass there :p). More importantly, the card is not even out yet and people won't be able to play it in tournaments until a month from now. It's pointless to speculate about unbannings or bannings caused by NPH when we haven't even seen anything yet.

DC is still better than Mystical imho.By the way:

Here's a novel idea: let's wait for this card to make an appearance in the metagame first; wait three months; then re-evaluate the B&R list.

That's what I think is better. And, for the record, even if Mental Misstep would not exist I would still unban Mystical.

[Shawon]

Exactly! We've come to an agreement that we should just wait out the results and that the original question was a stupid one!

[ivanpei]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...Overhyped.html

Anyway, apparently we aren't crazy. Pros think it's freaking busted as well.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...Overhyped.html

Anyway, apparently we aren't crazy. Pros think it's freaking busted as well.

I don't understand how a card can be that good if it's just a one-for-one.

The Hell?

Swords to Plowshares? Strip Mine? Does that means that Force of Will sucks?

[ivanpei]

Well Gerard Fabiano is playing a deck that has Red and White but plays Bolts instead of Plows... He also has Grim Lavamancer, no excuse not to play Plows IMO. I believe he's a great player, but regarding card evaluation and deck design, not so much.

[perm]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...Overhyped.html

Anyway, apparently we aren't crazy. Pros think it's freaking busted as well.

It being absurd is self evident; the people trying to disagree in this thread are just contrarian hipsters

[Shawon]

Well Gerard Fabiano is playing a deck that has Red and White but plays Bolts instead of Plows... He also has Grim Lavamancer, no excuse not to play Plows IMO. I believe he's a great player, but regarding card evaluation and deck design, not so much.

He plays 4 StP in the sideboard. He probably didn't MD them because he felt he could get by with burn and disruption against most creature decks game 1. The preference of Vindicate over StP in the MD indicates the focus on disruption.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

For people who are talking about playing this in Zoo, Goblins or other non-blue decks... or really any deck at that, you do realize that you need to actually put this card in the deck, right?

I mean to say that you can't just have it in your hand when your opponent casts that clutch, game-winning 1cc spell, but you will actually have to cut a card from your deck to play it.

I know this is a fundamental step in deck building, but look at it this way: You need to identify the card in your deck that is 100% worse than Mental Misstep and then play it over it. This means in Zoo, you would literally have to cut a card that actively kills your opponent so that you can play a card that you can pay 2 life to counter whatever their turn one play is.

This means for a fish deck, that you want to play all of the sweet Blue, black and/or white cards that you already wanted to play, Force of Will, Daze, Dark Confidant, Swords to Plowshares, etc... and then cut one of those cards out and play Mental Misstep in it's place. I see the slot being cut most often as Thoughtseize, but Mental Misstep is clearly not always better than Thoughtseze.

The idea that you can counter so many spells with this card is great and all that, but that's like making a list of all the cards that Force of Will can counter and then surmising that becuase Force of Will can counter a Brainstorm, that is clearly what you're supposed to do.

I doubt many of you have, but I've done testing against this card already and the results were pretty much what I anticipated them being from the decks I tested against. Either the effect was minimal, but annoying, or the effect was negligible and a hindrance to my opponent's game plan.

Also, for those of you who are claiming that you need to play Mental Misstep to counter opposing copies of the card, that seems like one of the worst uses of the card imaginable unless it's countering your Entomb or Reanimate.

That said, I'm highly in favor of everyone playing this card.

I think zoo is a bad example here. I actually think zoo is the gameplan hurt most by MM. Zoo does not benefit from removal protection as much as tribal strategies do because zoo creatures are just big stupid fighters. Every creature can be replaced by another, they all just beat hard. They are hurt the most from the tempo loss if their first turn drop is countered (especially on the play) because they have no synergy to make up for the tempo loss (like tribal lords have).

Tribal decks on the other hand benefit greatly from spot removal protection, their gameplan is their creature synergies. If they can protect their lords their strategy is harder to hate. Plus they gain a tempo boost against zoo like decks to get into stages of the game where their card advantage and synergy overwhelm zoo. Just think about turn 1 lackey on the play backed up by MM :)

[The_Red_Panda]

It being absurd is self evident; the people trying to disagree in this thread are just contrarian hipsters

I would be careful about what you call self evident. The notion that the card is incredibly good is not ill-founded, but self-evident absurdity in power level is a bit too far. It will be played (tested), quite a bit, in a variety of decks. That much we can tell simply from the amount of discussion that's occurring concerning the card. But what decks it will ultimately enhance to the extent that it merits inclusion over the numerous other options present is, as of yet, relatively unknown. That much is evident, again, by the extent and content of the discussion of said card. It is not, however, good to the extent that we can preemptively tell that it will merit banning, or that stratagems will be devised entirely for the abuse of this card, and this card alone. It is limited in the scope of its ability to interact with the opponent, and if it is as good as you claim it to be, seems to establish a sort of cyclical relationship with the format, where its usability will be directly limited by how many people are using it, or more precisely how many people are attempting to build with it in mind.

All of these ideas are ones already expressed in this thread, and none of them lack merit on the basis that they're founded solely with the intent to posture. The idea that those expressing them are 'contrarian hipsters' as you put it, seems ill-founded. That being said, the notion that this card will bring about definite metagame shifts within legacy is one I am obviously unopposed to. It will change things, and I would be willing to wager that most (if not all) of the people in this thread realize this. Their disagreement is not so much on the level of "this card is very, very good, and merits a ton of testing", but "this card will see play in every deck ever". One of those statements I'm in complete agreement with, the other is, well, self-evidently absurd.

[nwong]

Their disagreement is not so much on the level of "this card is very, very good, and merits a ton of testing", but "this card will see play in every deck ever".

^This.

[perm]

Will it see play in every deck? of course not, that's just as ridiculous as saying this card will barely see play. Will it see play in not-blue and non-tempo decks? Almost certainly, and that's why so many people are alarmed about the format defining/warping nature of this card in legacy

[Mr. Safety]

Can we talk about how many good cheap Blue cards a deckbuilder needs to decide over?

Brainstorm
Ponder
Stifle
Force
Mental Misstep
Daze
Spell Pierce
Spell Snare

Building Legacy decks is hard after this printing, as Misstep forces everyone to start from the ground up! Very exciting format, imo

I agree...this is what legacy needed. It doesn't make old powerful cards less relivant, it makes decision making skills MORE relivant. Kudos to WotC, and I'm just SO GLAD that they were willing to try out 'free' spells again. It's been too long since they had a Daze/Force of Will/Snuff Out card that is worth playing in the maindeck...I mean Mindbreak Trap is great tech, but who plays that MAINDECK?

I am looking forward to abusing this particular sub-set of cards in my Faeries deck. Brainstorm, Spell Pierce/Snare, and Daze are already in the mix...not sure what Mental Misstep will do for me, considering I don't have any Force of Wills...

[Rune]

Thank heavens for this card. We were almost at a point where non-Brainstorm decks had become playable, but this should set things straight again.

[GGoober]

The Hell?

Swords to Plowshares? Strip Mine? Does that means that Force of Will sucks?

Yeah FoW sucks, it's a 2-1.

:P

[RexFTW]

Yeah FoW sucks, it's a 2-1.

:P

technically FOW is a 1:2 not 2:1 :)

[Admiral_Arzar]

Thank heavens for this card. We were almost at a point where non-Brainstorm decks had become playable, but this should set things straight again.

LMAO. I hadn't thought about it that way. But remember, this card COUNTERS Brainstorm :P

[perm]

Yes, this card will actually become asymptotically better, because as the general mana curve gets more 1cc heavy, this card becomes better and increases in top 8 appearance, until every deck is 60 mental missteps

[Rune]

LMAO. I hadn't thought about it that way. But remember, this card COUNTERS Brainstorm :P

That is true, but we most remember the main reason this card was printed is completely different: WotC has done a lot of market research on Legacy, and they have found out that a lot of young kids have been able to buy into the format because of relatively cheap decks like Dredge, TES, Combo Elves and Goblins. We all know that WotC's goal is to make Legacy as inaccessible and unfun as possible for new players, so when they witnessed a 13-year old kid dismantle a pimped out blue deck piloted by a beard-wielding adult, they decided things had gone way too far. In order to kill two birds with one stone, they came up with this card. Not only would the card make most budget decks a lot worse (losing g1 to everything blue is fun, huh, Dredge bastards?!?), it would also increase the price of FoW and all blue duals, making the format's best decks even more unattainable. Lastly, Wizards is aware that kids hate getting their shit countered, so they decided to really crank up the unfunness and frustration level of the card by making it free and available to all colors


They thought no one would notice this subtle attempt at killing the format. They thought no one would stop and wonder why yet another ridiculous blue card was printed. But I am here, and I see things clearly. If I don't make another post again, it'll most likely be because I have been banned from the forums, or because I have been kidnapped by WotC's ninjas for exposing the truth one too many times.

[Pich]

Kikoo, you are paranoiac. ^^
I'm a kid (14yo) and i'm freaking happy they print Misstep, my Merfolk deck is gonna get better!

[Admiral_Arzar]

That is true, but we most remember the main reason this card was printed is completely different: WotC has done a lot of market research on Legacy, and they have found out that a lot of young kids have been able to buy into the format because of relatively cheap decks like Dredge, TES, Combo Elves and Goblins. We all know that WotC's goal is to make Legacy as inaccessible and unfun as possible for new players, so when they witnessed a 13-year old kid dismantle a pimped out blue deck piloted by a beard-wielding adult, they decided things had gone way too far. In order to kill two birds with one stone, they came up with this card. Not only would the card make most budget decks a lot worse (losing g1 to everything blue is fun, huh, Dredge bastards?!?), it would also increase the price of FoW and all blue duals, making the format's best decks even more unattainable. Lastly, Wizards is aware that kids hate getting their shit countered, so they decided to really crank up the unfunness and frustration level of the card by making it free and available to all colors


They thought no one would notice this subtle attempt at killing the format. They thought no one would stop and wonder why yet another ridiculous blue card was printed. But I am here, and I see things clearly. If I don't make another post again, it'll most likely be because I have been banned from the forums, or because I have been kidnapped by WotC's ninjas for exposing the truth one too many times.

I actually had similar thoughts when I read the card for the first time. I'm pretty sure my initial thought was ZOMGWTFBBQPWN ARE THEY THINKING?!!11??111 or something to that effect. Maybe it'll end up getting banhammered and we won't have to worry LOL.

Kikoo, you are paranoiac. ^^
I'm a kid (14yo) and i'm freaking happy they print Misstep, my Merfolk deck is gonna get better!

Of course you're happy they printed it, blue player. YOU WOULD BE.