[SCD] Mental Misstep

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

That seems unrealistic. Against most modern decks, Counterbalance is a hindrance, not a lock, and that's due to a lot more than just Aether Vial. Most decks have 3 or 4cc threats that are quite credible. Not even including cards like Green Sun's Zenith, Tombstalker, or Engineered Explosives which don't give a fuck about CB at all.

[Aggro_zombies]

That seems unrealistic. Against most modern decks, Counterbalance is a hindrance, not a lock, and that's due to a lot more than just Aether Vial. Most decks have 3 or 4cc threats that are quite credible. Not even including cards like Green Sun's Zenith, Tombstalker, or Engineered Explosives which don't give a fuck about CB at all.

Yeah, but those are what your other counters are for.

Look, you don't sit down and say, "I'm going to make a deck that beats Counterbalance," and then have nothing but 3+ mana cards in it; Stax and MUD are pretty terrible decks for a reason. Put another way: a lot of the reason people are ejaculating rainbows over Mental Misstep is because every deck contains at least a couple of targets for it. Those same cards are also fair game for Counterbalance. Because the format is still built on speed and tempo, Counterbalance decks that can compete in the early game can rapidly reduce the number of "outs" to the lock in the opponent's deck to the number of 3+cc cards he runs; most decks run fewer of those than Counterbalance runs other counters. Plus, if those cards are permanents, Counterbalance has removal for them. I mean, yeah, we can get really nit-picky and play the, "But what if he doesn't have the counter?" game, but that game also works for Mental Misstep and that hasn't deterred anybody in favor of the card.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

What other counters? If you're running Counterbalance and Mental Misstep, half your counter at least already don't hit those spells. You can't rely on Force to save you from everything, what are you down to, Counterspell?

I mean it seems like any deck that runs Misstep has a disincentive to run Counter-Top, since you want to be able to handle a diversity of threats, not primarily Nacatls.

[bracer028]

What other counters? If you're running Counterbalance and Mental Misstep, half your counter at least already don't hit those spells. You can't rely on Force to save you from everything, what are you down to, Counterspell?

I mean it seems like any deck that runs Misstep has a disincentive to run Counter-Top, since you want to be able to handle a diversity of threats, not primarily Nacatls.

i don't really understand what the second paragraph means.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Counterbalance is there to clear up all their cheap spells. Mental Misstep has the same function. They tackle it from different angles, but both are primarily there to attack cheap spells.

The problem is that lots of decks have lots of 2, 3, even 4 mana threats that have to be dealt with. If you're trying to play control you have to deal with those cards. Are you going to run Misstep just to insure that Vial doesn't stop your Counterbalance from working? That seems incredibly weak if the cards you're most worried about cost 3 or 4, or 5 or 8.

[Aggro_zombies]

Counterbalance is there to clear up all their cheap spells. Mental Misstep has the same function. They tackle it from different angles, but both are primarily there to attack cheap spells.

The problem is that lots of decks have lots of 2, 3, even 4 mana threats that have to be dealt with. If you're trying to play control you have to deal with those cards. Are you going to run Misstep just to insure that Vial doesn't stop your Counterbalance from working? That seems incredibly weak if the cards you're most worried about cost 3 or 4, or 5 or 8.

Counterbalance decks have usually had the most problems with things that cost more than you can Counterbalance, or which happen before you can stick Counterbalance. Guess which of these Mental Misstep takes care of in a way Daze doesn't?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

"Things that happen before..." in this case means primarily Aether Vial. Counterbalance also happens to be terrible against the decks that actually run Aether Vial, Goblins and Merfolk. So in order to solve Counterbalance's problem with Vial, you're now running a card that only hits 4 relevant spells in Merfolk and 8 in Goblins (and none of their relevant cards in the mid-to-late game), and none of the cards in Junk, Bant, Team America, Affinity, ANT, High Tide, etc., etc.. that actually stop you from winning against those decks.


Why is this good?

Mental Misstep is a very good card, but not if you're thinking, "Oh, I need an answer to Aether Vial and that is the only problem of mine that Mental Misstep actually solves.

If that's your only problem in life, honestly, just run Repeal.

[Koby]

i don't really understand what the second paragraph means.

He means to say that CBtop already has a good handle on 1cc spells already. It's a catch 22 he's describing, where the best way to answer 1 drops is to run MM, but the deck already has an over-abundance of ways to deal with 1 drops late game.

There are better ways to deal with AEther Vial in CBtop shells; such as Pithing Needle and EE. This is hardly news.

EDIT: It would be nice to see the format slow down where the speed and efficiency of Legacy from yester-year morphed into more mid-range. I can't quite predict the new metagame without actual data; but I suspect some archetypes will fare better off than others. Pretty much Reanimator can be written off for the next few weeks/months? while everyone and their pet dog Rover is going to be testing out MM. Several in the DDFT/ANT/TES thread are discussing ways to combat their newly perceived threat to the deck. Their conclusion: build a more resilient combo deck that doesn't depend on a single spell, e.g. Belcher.

As was mentioned before in this thread, MM does nothing to stop Burn, since paying 2 life to save 1 life isn't the best of uses for your life total.

[Lejay]

As was mentioned before in this thread, MM does nothing to stop Burn, since paying 2 life to save 1 life isn't the best of uses for your life total.

Now you can reread mental misstep and particularly the part about phyrexian mana.

[ivanpei]

Well this is nightmare's thoughts on Mental Misstep. I think it's a good summary and I pretty much agree with the points:

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...ie-howser-m-d/

The juicy excerpts:

"I’m intentionally limiting my wording here, and trying not to be sensationalist. In reality, I think most Legacy decks just became 56 cards."

"This card is not Spell Snare. This card isn’t even Mindbreak Trap. This card is Force of Will, and it doesn’t force you to run 18 blue cards to use it. This unassuming uncommon has the potential, and likelihood, to significantly alter the way that Grand Prix Providence will play out."

Pretty strong opinion here.

[menace13]

The card is teh titz. Free counter to most turn 1 plays is hawt.

[mossivo1986]

you're misevaluating the format. Blue isn't the best color because it crushes everything, it's the best color because the tools it offers you also work against combo. In a straight heads-up, blue-based aggro decks based mostly around beats and 1-for-1 cards have no particular advantage over those that don't run blue, with some variance for specific decklists. Their statistical advantage is in breaking combo, which non-blue decks tend to be overwhelmingly disfavored against. Even discard isn't particularly good against high tide these days, since they only really need two cards, high tide and time spiral, to have a 95% shot at comboing off.

If combo takes a hit it reduces the incentive to play brainstorm. There are just better cards to play in a format where the average swing turn is 4.5 and critters on the ground are the main wincons.

Of course, those decks still require duals, even if they're the cheaper ones, which gets back to your other point which seems to be a non-sequitur. Dual-based decks with expensive legacy staples like force, wasteland, mazes, mox diamonds, aether vials, etc., etc.. Haven't gotten any less common recently. Affinity, elves, and ichorid have all gotten a bit of tournament showing lately, but in addition to being budget decks they also share in common that they're laughably fragile glass cannons, completely hosed by some very commonly played main or side cards. Elves can't deal with lavamancer or jitte effectively, in addition to having problems with any deck that packs more than six or so removal spells, affinity gets hosed by maindeck deeds or sideboard null roads, the latter of which lets anyone completely shut down their deck for two mana, and there's a dozen or so ways for any deck to beat ichorid for one mana or less, sometimes even drawing a card in the process.

Legacy is expensive and that's a separate problem, but i don't see how mental misstep adds to this, and it may even help a bit. As the format slows mana bases become more important, and the incentives to go three colors should diminish.




That's just silly. Everyone knows the correct build is 14 island, 44 mental misstep, 2 brain freeze.

qft.

[troopatroop]

I think Nightmare is spot on, and he only made conservative estimations. 56 card Legacy, imo as well.

[Angelfire]

I think Nightmare is spot on, and he only made conservative estimations. 56 card Legacy, imo as well.

There are a number of decks that won't be running this and shouldn't be. Small list: Most Combo, Chalice Aggro, Burn, Dredge and more.

[Mr. Safety]

I think fringe decks like Faeries will jump on this spell for sure...it basically allows them to play Daze #5-8, controlling the front end of the game in an incredibly strong way while filling their yard even faster for quick Tombstalker beats.

I for one will be testing out Mental Misstep in my faeries deck.

[Doomsday]

This makes most of Legacy into 56 card decks??? I'm pretty sure that this topic has just surpassed Lorescale Coatl level.

[Pippin]

This makes most of Legacy into 56 card decks??? I'm pretty sure that this topic has just surpassed Lorescale Coatl level.

Yup, I completely agree.
Even though I was strong proponent of how strong this card is, I simply cannot see this going into maindeck of most non-blue decks. Even in blue decks, I wouldn't constrain decks with 4 of Missteps as a must in maindeck...

[catmint]

There is a SCG article from Drew Levin about mental misstep:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...l_Misstep.html

Interesting analysis about using the card for defensive / offensive strategy and metagame predictions.

[Forbiddian]

[Discussing how Mental Misstep does not help the combo matchup against Zoo]In the actual storm matchup, if you have one Mental Misstep in hand (a common scenario, given you can only run four), you lose to any of the following resolving: Chant, Silence, Duress, Thoughtseize.

It's like if somebody said Force of Will does nothing because Chant/Silence/Duress/Thoughtseize is game. Combo can always trump any answer by getting Chant/Thoughtseize off, and a Zoo deck (naturally an extremely fast clock) suddenly forcing a combo player to grab answers before trying to go off? Win.

It poses a bigger problem to Spiral Tide variants than Ad Nauseam, since Ad Nauseam can much more easily play through a MM and still win turn 3, but if people like you think that you need to use Orim's Chant to protect your combo against Zoo, then all the power to the Zoo players.

What Misstep does do, however, is make Counterbalance and tempo stronger, both of which have broadly positive storm matchups. Those two can act as a suppressing force on combo, letting Zoo back into the metagame if it dedicates sideboard slots specifically to beating blue. I'm not sure those slots involve Missteps, though.

Interesting theory. I don't see MM as being a huge improvement over Daze, Spell Pierce, or Spell Snare at doing anything for these decks. It's almost certainly going into those decks, but one drop cards were answerable before to Counterbalance decks anyway.

Because most decks are going to be running this (or at least a tumultuous metagame shift will favor different lines of play), the decks that benefit the most are the decks that could benefit from trading down, benefit from being able to stop key spells they couldn't stop before, and (in a pinch) benefit from the life loss.

[kilukru]

A curious thing about MM is that one of the archetype it will affect the less is actully combo. Control deck that will play MM will either remove daze, spell pierce of spell snare for it, so the disruption density remain the same and that disruption density is the main thing you worry about when playing combo.

For non-blue deck non black deck, if the play 4 MM, fine, thats really thin protection against combo, if they run nothing else against it (Teg, etc...) it wont matter

For black deck, chance are that black deck that will run MM will cut some kind of hand disruption for it, so once again, the disruption density remain the same. If they do run the fulll suit of hand disruption and MM, then the rest of the deck will be real thin, so a slow clock, unless they get that Tombstalker real fast!

This is from a TES player