[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[ivanpei]

I don't think you will be seeing a batterskull on a pit dragon gaining you a crap ton of life very often as RPD will most probably be sent farming, but it's possible. I don't like the 5cc, at 4cc it would be ideal (but that would be broken @ 4 mana). As the last card in your hand, a 4/4 vigilance lifelink is nothing to laugh at. It's like a colourless baneslayer, that doesn't fly. It will most probably be sent farming as well. But Even if it does, ANY topdeck Simian spirit guide, priest, revoker or magus of the moon becomes a huge threat. 6/6 vigilance lifelinkers win games. Just ask wurmcoil engine.

But right now it's fighting slogger and Moltensteel for slots. I still prefer moltensteel because that 1 mana difference is huge. But if tribal/midrange is the way decks are heading with less combo, Batterskull might be a better choice. BTW, batterskull 25 USD sold out on SCG? Man they have to stop printing stuff for caw blade, it's annoying. Can you imagine this with stoneforge? You ninja it into play with SFM and then bounce, repeat when the germ dies.

[mercs]

Batterskull? really?

20 ---------- 95,?% ---------- 75%
21 ---------- 96,2% ---------- 78%
22 ---------- 96,7% ---------- 81%
23 ---------- 97,2% ---------- 83%
24 ---------- 97,8% ---------- 85,7%
25 ---------- 98,2% ---------- 87,7%
26 ---------- 98,6% ---------- 89,5%

I definitely think 20 red sources should be ok. For Fow users, their rule for blue count is >16, so we should be ok if the cut is warranted.

[AmokPL]

hmm nobody didnt even mention Volt Charge despite the fact few pages ago we have been considering Char as our removal. VC is pretty good - 3 hits creature or player lets you play that card even if you dont have any threat on the table to enter into hellbent. Also that means Sloggers and Songs may go and if you play level up dudes it might give you a surprising counter for your Lord of Shatterskull Pass especially when they dont expect that.

[Jelmerz77]

hmm nobody didnt even mention Volt Charge despite the fact few pages ago we have been considering Char as our removal. VC is pretty good - 3 hits creature or player lets you play that card even if you dont have any threat on the table to enter into hellbent. Also that means Sloggers and Songs may go and if you play level up dudes it might give you a surprising counter for your Lord of Shatterskull Pass especially when they dont expect that.

I don't think I will ever consider playing removal maindeck in DS. If it's not a lock piece than it has to have legs to walk and hands to hold an equipment. If the deck would need this to proper work, then I would probably play another deck. And for SB I would prefer other options, but that might be just me

[NecroYawgmoth]

Did anyone tested/proxed/MWSed with that clumsy Batterskull what actually could be good?

Also, I wanted to ask you how your Post-New Phyrexia decklists would look like?

My actual list looks like this:

Creatures:
4 Gathan Raiders ----> Priest of Urabrask
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Kargan Dragonlord ----> Moltensteel Dragon

Other:
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere
2 Sword of Body & Mind
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Snow-Covered Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Anarchy
3 Shattering Spree
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage


I really feel I need something against Zoo or bigger Creatures/Aggro in my board, but I don't know what...
Maybe more Swords?


oh and btw: Taco, do you want to post your Mox Opal / Jeweled Amulet / 8 Moon / Oops I win / whatever it is - list =P ?

[Tivon]

What is T crypt for? If its dredge you can probably cut it for x4 pyrokinesis.

Ratchet bomb is house against dredge (and pyrokinesis can come in too). We already have one of the strongest maindecks against them. I would also probably bump ratchet up to 4 and drop anarchy to 2 personally. Ratchet bomb handles most of the problematic permanents in enchantress and staxx and such for us.

[NecroYawgmoth]

mainly against Dredge, yes... =/

I know that this MU is favored for us, and maybe it's just a Paranoia as I am a Dredge-Player myself, and I know how randomly Broken this deck can be... but maybe you are right.

I cutted Ratchet down to 3, because 4 were too many IMO, and I haven't encountered any problems with it, yet. 3/3 Anarchy / Ratchet is fine against Enchantress.

[ivanpei]

Did anyone tested/proxed/MWSed with that clumsy Batterskull what actually could be good?

Also, I wanted to ask you how your Post-New Phyrexia decklists would look like?

My actual list looks like this:

Creatures:
4 Gathan Raiders ----> Priest of Urabrask
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Kargan Dragonlord ----> Moltensteel Dragon

Other:
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere
2 Sword of Body & Mind
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Snow-Covered Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Anarchy
3 Shattering Spree
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage


I really feel I need something against Zoo or bigger Creatures/Aggro in my board, but I don't know what...
Maybe more Swords?


oh and btw: Taco, do you want to post your Mox Opal / Jeweled Amulet / 8 Moon / Oops I win / whatever it is - list =P ?

I'm gonna be playing that exact MD except I'll have Gathan instead of Trini (I hate Trini MD and I want to up my Red count). I generally find Zoo a good MU though. Moon/Chalice is usually GG against them. SOBM/Jittes also wreck them.

[NecroYawgmoth]

I'm gonna be playing that exact MD except I'll have Gathan instead of Trini (I hate Trini MD and I want to up my Red count). I generally find Zoo a good MU though. Moon/Chalice is usually GG against them. SOBM/Jittes also wreck them.

Qasali Pridemage wants to talk with you.

[LostButSeeking]

Qasali Pridemage wants to talk with you.

This might be true . . . if Qasili Pridemage cost RR. Blood Moon is really good against a deck with >3 basics in it.

[NecroYawgmoth]

This might be true . . . if Qasili Pridemage cost RR. Blood Moon is really good against a deck with >3 basics in it.

Of course Moon is good...

But when they win the dieroll and start with fetch on Forest it looks a lot worse... They can lead with Noble Hierarch, or just Green Sun Zenith for Qasali and stuff... If we Revoke the Hierarch then, they might be happy and play that !$=" Pridemage. Magus can be Bolted so only Moon on opening is really good. We also don't have always that 3 mana first turn. =(

[Tivon]

I've been blown out by zoo because of quasali... so I have an abnormal fear of it - that being said, I haven't had to play it in forever and I currently don't care as much, Tyrgon predator on the other hand... that flying piece of crap cost me a top 8 last month...

I was thinking a 4/2 split purely because ratchet can help cover up the dredge matchup if you remove Tormod's crypt. Ratchet bomb and pyrokinesis are both quite good against them - though I usually board in the ratchet bombs only (I've done pyrokinesis as well, but start to feel too threat light. usually equipment goes first, and I just can't find enough room to remove other things for pyrokinesis)

If you have more enchantress and stax in your meta, than the three anarchy is understandable. I personally don't see them much.

[guidogulp]

Just can't see how Priest of ubarask is better than Gathan's...

Btw my SB looks like this:

1 Trini
1 Ratchet (3 in MD)
1 Flametongue Kavu (3 in MD, mainly couse in my meta there are lots of merfolks/goblins)
3 Firespout
2 Blood moon (just 2 in MD)
3 Act of treason / Grab the reins / Traitorous instinct (against big creatures decks, tarmos and so)
4 Fortune Thief (for any decks that doesn't have removal such as merfolk, dark depths probably, countertop, affinity, ANT, high tide, dredge, show and tell, etc)


So, wht do u think about fortune thief ??
Also, could Act of treason or the others work in the deck??

[ivanpei]

Perhaps I have better draws against zoo then. If I open chalice/blood moon, that's usually very strong. Agreed opening with a magus is pretty weak, but we also have revokers to mess with Pridemage and Noble. So far I'm above 50% against zoo. SOBM and Revoker have really improved this MU.

[NecroYawgmoth]

Perhaps I have better draws against zoo then. If I open chalice/blood moon, that's usually very strong. Agreed opening with a magus is pretty weak, but we also have revokers to mess with Pridemage and Noble. So far I'm above 50% against zoo. SOBM and Revoker have really improved this MU.

ofc we have Revokers, but not that often we have 2 of them =(

Sword of B&M was the best thing that could happen for this deck, and I tested it only because of you [I think you told me I should test], and I will never look back to other swords, or cutting them. =)

Also: I knew your list, as you posted them a few sites ago... That list is a real Monster... I never achieved Hellbent faster with such a constance =) -> Bad thing is that I am too much in love with Trinisphere to ever cut them entirely from the main. =(

[ForlornEgoist]

I'm curious as to how many players here are considering, like me, to just drop RPD entirely for Moltensteel. There's no denying how ubelievably amazing RPD can be with hellbent, but let's face facts that unless we have hellbent he's just a vanilla 3/3. Although our deck run Song/SSP/Mox we still run into times where the RR can be troublesome. Not only this, RPD requires a heavy investment of mana to be useful which isn't always available particularly in the early game where we're trying to establish our lock pieces. Moltensteel can be cast off 2 sol-lands which I've found to be a necessity on more than one ocassion and he retains firebreathing. Really the only loss is hellbent-Double-strike which IMO isn't all that amazing when you consider how often our deck can struggle to reach hellbent when we need it, not to mention how DS is beginning to see an increase in equipment usage.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw in my .02$.

Forlorn Egoist

[ivanpei]

Moltensteel is really bad in multiples though, and I could see him mainly as a 2-off or in some lists, a 3 off if you need the firepower. Ancient tomb + Moltensteel can really halve your life even before your start firebreathing. The 2nd Moltensteel you cast will literally put you under 10 life, making it's firebreathing pretty crappy. My 2 cents.

[Jelmerz77]

I agree with Ivanpei, I will test Moltensteel Dragon in the "weak spot" of the deck instead of what is now filled by 2 Kargan/2 Koth.
But I don't see them replacing RPD.

[ThoSha]

I agree with 3 anarchy A LOT. This card just frigging owns enchantress, which used to be a bad matchup for me before.
It also owns Death & Taxes and other WW. Also had a really good matchup against Stax with it recently, but i was favored with the wolf token from SOBM anyway. I decided to cut SoFF too because there isnt enough black removal at all to really justify it.

Regarding to your new list Yawg, i have to say i really like it.
The priest replacing Gathans seems a good choice as it fixes mana issues to cast the dragon faster.
I was only playing Gathan because of dragon support, but a 5/5 first turn that eats your whole hand was just too bad.
Please let us now how this works out. I dont think you'll miss the Gathans at all, but lets see.

Any thoughts on including Batterskull + Etched Champion to this deck?
I was tinkering around with the Champion a bit and it seemed really strong with Jitte/Sword as it can block Knights all day.
But i needed to run Artefact Lands to really keep the metalcraft constant turn 2-3

[ForlornEgoist]

@ ivanpei:

I very much doubt I'd run Moltensteel as a 4-of, however I also consider RPD to ultimately be a far harder creature to cast and support earlier in the game which is where our deck wants to play at. Of course I won't deny that sometimes our opponents can manage to stall us out, but Moltensteel is a far better card to draw into/topdeck in the beginning as he allows you to cast him and then continue to drop threats. RPD requires you make decisions such as whether to hold mana back to use his abilities or to continue to drop cards on the fields. At bare minimum to make him even useful you require at least RR on the attack to enable flying and/or RRR on the defence if you're looking to take down a 'Goyf. Considering we run 8 sol-lands and are attempting to play a threat every turn I've found I rarely have the conveinance to reserve mana to support creatures unless my gamestate is amazing or it's later in the game.

Yeah, there's no denying that when we look at the average cost for Moltensteel we're seeing 2 Tomb-pain + 4 Phyrexian-pain for a total of 6, but then we have a 4/4 flyer who requires no extra investment to be useful. Also to remember is that more and more builds are upping the equipment count so recouping lifeloss through this means isn't difficult with a static flyer (I myself am currently running 3 Jitte although I may include 1-2 SoLaS or a 1/1 of SoLaS/SoFaF).

Until the set comes out this is all pure speculation. As of right now I'm doing the playtesting method in tournaments of saying, "what would happen if this card I just drew were this card instead." *sighs* If only RPD had static double strike rather than Hellbent. =(

@ ThoSha:

The reason people who opt to run SoFaF do so is because they're looking to enable all of their creatures to handle 'Goyf/KotR/Terravore while at the same time not enabling GY-based strategies via SoBaM. The discard is irrelevant, untap is somewhat viable if you're attacking w/sword in first 5 turns, and I'm pretty sure we're not worried about the random Junk lists that sport Go for the Throat in the SB. :P

Forlorn Egoist