I'm not going to make a very strong statement, because honestly, I mostly netdeck. When I'm trying out a new deck, I find a list that's done well recently and adjust it my card card availability, or I proxy. Occasionally I'll make a minor change. I think Mental Misstep seems great in a lot of (blue) decks I want to play (if I don't need it, at least I can brainstorm it away or pitch it to force, right?), and I can imagine it being really good for nonblue decks as well, but I understand reluctance to put it in these decks. Goblins isn't supposed to run non-goblins, unless they're lands or vials! This is like a hard and fast rule, right? Well...except for lightning bolts, which cleared a way for my lackeys in a number of spots, and gave me some reach. Hell, they're not terrible against ad nauseum either. Sure, it sucks when you see them off a ringleader, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth playing them sometimes (maindeck, no less). MM does some of the same things (make way for a lackey by countering first turn blockers, do something semi-relevant vs. storm), only for no mana.
Just to be explicit: I think MM could be run profitably in the vast majority of decks. There are times when it shouldn't be run, but I think probably every deck that runs force and brainstorm should run MM, and probably many (that is, more than half?) of the decks that don't.
I think the Tour de Force thought experiment is telling, because at first thought, I DON'T want to run it in every deck. While clearly I should.
but zoo goldfishes on turn 4 while merfolk goldfishes on turn 5( and pitching lords to FOW and being set back a land drop from daze hinders this speed a decent amount too). not saying misstep is enough to beat combo but zoo fundamentally needs less disruption to get the winOriginally Posted by SlopeeJ
NO. Top isn't a threat in and of itself, it's just card quality with an activation cost. Bob and CB (the most common cards used with it) are the bigger threats...for what they can do. I'd rather have Krosan Grip...it's out of CounterTop range (usually) and will take care of EITHER. Hell, I'd rather play Ancient Gruge than Mental Misstep! You at least get 2 effects for 1 card.
MM is sideboard tech for aggro decks in it's BEST application, and that would only be to shore up the combo matchup, and as I've stated before, I STILL feel Canonist + Traps is still better.
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Wow 56 card decks now ... or every non Chalice of the Void deck.
Wait, didn't you say how awesome Mental Misstep is in blue decks a few hours ago? Because actually blue based decks with few threats are the decks that want this card the most. I'm totally psyched about playing New Horizons again with these babies. Daze always sucked in that deck.
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You aren't comparing like cards at all, just jumping off the observation that it counters SDT on the Draw. You are are also bringing up cards with colored mana, which means you really fail to grasp the ubiquity that this card will have in the format.
im pretty sure lots of decks will be running mm. if zoo too, im not sure. ofc its nuts on the first turns, later its an awful topdeck. imagine the opp is on low life and cleared the board. every thread or burn might kill him and all you got is an useless counter. in pure aggro, mm is a worse card, in aggrocontrol it shines the most.
I'd advocate MM in a REALLY quick Zoo list. I probably will not play it in a Slower Big Zoo list as you want to Max out your threats and you are playing the midrange role anyway. But have a look at this example:
Cat Slight
4 Necatl
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Figure of Destiny
4 Bolt
4 Chain
4 Path
4 Misstep
2 Fireblast
2 Price of Progress
20 lands
In decks like this which are absolutely balls to the wall, MM plays a huge role in out-tempoing the opponent. This list can sure as hell race Storm, especially with the help of MM.
You guys realize you're talking about using Mental Misstep the way, like, Angel Stompy used to use Mother of Runes, right? Please stop being excited about putting MM in your aggro deck :(
Ur, mother of runes was one of the best cards in Angel Stompy? What about a mother of runes that counters Aether Vial/Sensei's Divining top for 0 mana? I'm not getting what point you are making here.
I'm just pointing out that a tempo centric, super quick zoo list or catsligh would want Missteps. If you are playing a bigger-midgame Zoo list, Misstep probably isn't as great because you want to have as many bombs as possible for threat overload. Also, even with misstep, Big Zoo still has no chance of racing combo, so why bother?
Thats the whole point, why does zoo give a shit about countering vial? They play creatures and burn, they don't want to counter shit
This card is so good it makes my penis tingle. There.. end of discussion.
Vial lets Goblins accelerate its gameplan and drop a bunch of guys to stall the ground game against Zoo; I'm going to guess that countering a turn 1 vial probably averages out to three entire creatures that don't hit the board by turn 5. Against Merfolk it stops Standstill from drawing cards if they run that, and certainly stops the main plan of "get a bunch of lords into play by turn 4-5 so all my guys are too big to burn out."
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
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If you are saying that countering a T1 play for FREE is not a huge tempo advantage for an aggro deck like Zoo and is unimportant, I have nothing else to say. Obviously the concepts of tempo are blurry for you. Would you trade your Pridemage for a Vial? Definitely, that's one of the most common targets for pridemage. Would you trade 1 card for a vial with no mana investment on your side? HELL YES.
Protection for your T1 drop is also bloody important. If your Necatl/Steppe Lynx is connecting on T2, you are way ahead of the damage race. Saying that it doesn't matter is just ridiculous.
Top is way more frightening by itself than CB. Bob is much easier to kill than Top as well. If I were playing a blue tempo deck, I'd much rather counter a card that invalidates my mana-denial plan and have them have a card in play that can randomly counter a spell here and there over countering CB.
Similarly, If I am playing a control deck, I am much more concerned about Top. Not to mention Misstep conveniently stops an artifact that single-handedly shuts off large portions of blue cards control decks are based around: Counterbalance, FoW/Snare/Counterspell/etc., and Standstill.
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I'm sorry zoo doesn't beat merfolk by killing vial, they win by having burn for all the creatures. Talk about tempo.... I pay 2 or 3 mana for a 2/2 creature and you pay 1 mana for a burn spell while you pay 1/2 mana for 3/3 5/6s. I would say the same thing for goblins, you win by burning their creatures and playing bigger ones. Sure having vial helps but the same problem is still there and having 4 less burn spells hurts zoo. Merfolk/goblins do run some lands I'm pretty sure and can cast their creatures.
What I think is a good tempo boost for merfolk is zoo running 4 counterspells instead of burn/creatures. I have 4 daze, 4 force, 4 mental misstep, along with cursecatcher and spell pierce. Good call on your 4 counterspells, I'm sure the life loss and fetches will also help the race
And no sacing your Pridemage for vial is not an auto in the matchup, exalted cats are hard to beat
No it is clear to me. That is why I run 4 force, 4 daze and now 4 mental misstep in a tempo deck.... Along with wasteland and vial. Trying to insult me doesn't make your point any less ignorantObviously the concepts of tempo are blurry for you
This alone supports my argument. If you won't trade 1 exalted for killing a vial, I can't really say much more to convince you.
This alone supports my argument. If you won't trade 1 exalted for killing a vial, I can't really say much more to convince you.
Instead of burning all their creatures, I would rather spend one card and zero mana killing Vial, zap the one, two creatures they'll get out in time to matter, and then burn their face. Spending burn on creatures, giving them spare mana to use Wastelands or Mutavaults or to pump up Coralhelm Commander seems bad.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Misstep on Vial is great against Merfolk. Aether Vial is your best card. It can punish draws/mulligans that depend on it, makes Daze worse for you, and makes you play fair. Zoo dominates Merfolk when they don't find Jitte or Vial, and his list has plenty of removal and burn.
What race? Wild Nacatl -> Go and you're not racing through removal. 4 Aether Vial, 4 Mental Misstep, Cursecatcher and Spell Pierce?What I think is a good tempo boost for merfolk is zoo running 4 counterspells instead of burn/creatures. I have 4 daze, 4 force, 4 mental misstep, along with cursecatcher and spell pierce. Good call on your 4 counterspells, I'm sure the life loss and fetches will also help the race
Yum. Targets.
Note that his "fast" build cut Pridemage. I'm not saying that this Merfolk configuration you're playing is wrong, but Mental Misstep is good against it.And no sacing your Pridemage for vial is not an auto in the matchup, exalted cats are hard to beat
No it is clear to me. That is why I run 4 force, 4 daze and now 4 mental misstep in a tempo deck.... Along with wasteland and vial. Trying to insult me doesn't make your point any less ignorant
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