[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

[Dark Ritual]

Probe is almost strictly better than street wraith (it can be countered by mental misstep). If anyone still runs wraith they should just switch it to probe IMO since it contributes to storm which I find to be very key in this deck.

A tourney report from me playing Nemavera's list with maybe a handful of manabase changes otherwise very close to Nemavera's 75.

Round 1 v. Zenith Rock
I open with duress and see GSZ x2, terravore, and KotR. Take a GSZ. His turn one he goes bayou into dryad arbor off of GSZ. Turn 2 I sculpt and turn 3 I win with a standard meditate stack.
Game 2 he thoughtseize's me and takes my sensei's top. I play land and pass for a few turns while he gets some non hate bear creatures down one of them a confidant along with some goyfs and stuff. I get down to 2 life and IGG loop him out of the game or do the standard meditate stack I didn't take notes and my memory is foggy on this.

1-0 (2-0)

Round 2 v. ????
I can't remember what happened this round I think I faced a very favorable MU or something but I won 2-0. I didn't take notes at the event so yeah I'm doing this off of just memory but I remember I didn't drop a game against this opponent either.

2-0 (4-0)

Round 3 v. Merfolk
I know what he's playing when we sit down since he played next to me during the 1st round or 2nd round again my memory is foggy. Game 1 is kind of dragged out with myself cantripping and him not getting a massive force of blue men on the board I think he just had a cursecatcher and a silvergill adept or something. I run an excess SDT into daze rather than duress him after I brainstorm into the nuts and win the next turn due to him being out of cards in hand/countermagic with my life total relatively high.
Game 2 bring in 4 xantid's and 3 carpet of flowers for 3 duress, 1 rain of filth, 2 cabal rit's, and a ponder or something. He's on the play. I attempt turn 1 top which gets dazed after he landed a turn 1 vial. Turn 2 he drops double cursecatcher. I cantrip on my turn with brainstorm and fetch. He beats for 2 and drops a land and passes I think. I cast infernal tutor with a dark rit in hand with no mana open and he sacks a catcher to counter it. Next turn I do the same thing with infernal and he is again forced to counter it. Instead of running out xantid swarm with my one land I drop an excess SDT which gets dazed as I thought. Next turn I untap and cast xantid swarm which gets forced. I'm thinking he doesn't have any countermagic left so I go off via tutor chain into tendrils since my hand was pretty stacked at this point. Never saw a carpet of flowers. But who cares when you can just tutor chain into the win.

3-0 (6-0)

Round 4 v. the Mighty Quinn.
Game 1 is the grindiest game of magic ever. He mulled due to lack of mana and was stuck on 2 lands for a few turns while I opened on top and was topping away. When I duressed him I saw abeyance x2 and chant along with an enlightened tutor or something and took the chant. He tutored for top and cast top and passed it back. At this point I settle in for a very long 35 minute game due to him holding double abeyance and with that top he is able to find a grand total of 6! chant effects/abeyances and he gets a runed halo out naming tendrils during this time. So I doomsday after casting 3 LED's and one dark rit, draw with top, meditate, and get chanted which is fine with me since I included a doomsday in the pile for this very reason. He takes another turn due to meditate and while he has 2 runed halo's total in play I EoT chain of vapor one of them and he is finally tapped out due to him casting elspeth and using scrying sheets along with casting another runed halo so I say "Finally you're tapped out which is what I've wanted this entire game lol." So I EoT chain one of his halo's on my turn I untap with boatloads of mana because I have accumulated 6 lands this entire time. I drop an SDT, Doomsday again, chain of vapor my petal and pair of LED's for storm before bouncing his runed halo to win the game with tendrils. Sigh of relief after that one long game.

Here I misboard though and bring in 4 xantid swarm's for the duress's and a cantrip or something. I should have boarded in the 2 echoing truth's and 2 hurkyl's because he got scepter chant on turn 2 and I couldn't win on turn 3 with him tapped out so the rest of the game he kept upkeep chanting me and I couldn't find the chain of vapor even with sensei's top and a lot of fetchland activations. He ends up winning just as we go to time with elspeth. So we draw unintentionally since we can't play a game 3.

3-0-1 (7-1)

Round 5 v. New Horizons

Game one he wins because I can't assemble a winning hand through his stifles and wastes.

Game 2 he brings in meddling mage which is unexpected on my half (didn't board in slaughter pact). He names doomsday because he's a good player and has been playing legacy for years now. When I duressed him he didn't have force just a spell pierce and stifle or something. I took pierce. He draws off of canopy at one point and I don't have a white source but I do have an uncracked fetch. When I try to go for it I fetch which resolves I try to chant him he forces. I cast a dark rit and he forces again. Very good draws sir. I only had a basic island after the second force so I couldn't go off and he killed me next turn.

3-1-1 (7-3)

Top 8

I face RGb Aggro Loam with thoughtseize instead of chalice. Not sure if he's splashing white for swords or not I didn't see swords at all both games though. Game 1 he thoughtseizes me and takes doomsday which was my only business. I lead with top and pass. Turn 2 he plays confidant or something. I win with a meditate stack on turn 3 or something.

Game 2 he thoughtseizes me on turns 1 and 2 taking my business and leaving me with a boatload of mana. I brainstorm into the nuts though and IGG loop him out followed by a short tutor chain.

Top 4 splits so I get a savannah/$40 in cash since I sell it back. Overall I'm very pleased with the list though it's a really good list and the deck overall was phenomenal. Not once during the day did I feel like I could lose with the deck and that I always had a chance to win. Well done Nemavera the list is a beast. I also did play a basic swamp for those who think it's bad they may be right but I like for my lands to stick around and I really like 2 basic lands for this reason since they stay the entire game and it isn't hard to win with 2 lands in play with this monster of a deck. Overall I'm very satisfied with the list though. I never once brought in hurkyl's or reverent silence though I should have brought in hurkyl's against quinn so get out of the stupid scepter lock he assembled turn 2.

[GGoober]

I think probe fits better in the versions that ran street wraith / Idea's Unbound.

Mental Misstep still has a pretty strong effect vs. this deck. Almost every pile requires a 1cc spell to get to tendrils...

How so? I can think of multiple piles without 1cc to get to tendrils, even those assuming you have no brainstorm/top in play/hand (this is the most difficult scenario)

Using pulp's list:

You can cast Doomsday and if you have Burning Wish in hand, set up a pile of:
LED
LED
Infernal Tutor
IGG
Tendrils

Cast Burning Wish (1R) tutor Ideas Unbound, cast Ideas Unbound (UU), draw LED LED IT, play LED LED IT (1B) in response crack LEDs, tutor for IGG. Play IGG (2BB) replay LED LED IT, tutor for Tendrils, play Tendrils

Requires a startup mana of 1R+UU+1B, Burning Wish, Ideas Unbound, Infernal Tutor. Dodges 1cmc spells all day and a grand total storm of:
10.

The point is, this deck has the option, and there's definitely the option to play ENTIRELY around Misstep. This pile also beats CBTop if they only have 1cmc on top and are tapped out (e.g. if you duressed them while they're tapped out and they countered the Duress). It is probably the most difficult pile but it still beats the Misstep scenario because I assumed you are setting up piles without brainstorm/Top. If they do have a misstep, then you can also setup piles that bait the misstep with SDT and continue to chain off with IGG.


BTW, this deck is fucking beautiful. I'm going to start learning and practicing it seriously, because I think the deck can really win-through a lot of tough matchups, and when it can't, you know that you had the option to, and you're actually playing a game of thinking, instead of other combo decks that just storm off whenever they can and lose to itself. The deck's so beautiful because the power of Doomsday is really dependent on the list. E.g. If you choose to play 1 Street Wraith or Probe, which is otherwise terrible in other combo decks, the deck turns that random Street Wraith/Probe into a pile that actually uses it to win games rather than cycling cards for the sake of cycling. The deck makes every card look good, it makes every card feel like it's worth something in the deck.

[leegoo]

I wasn't saying EVERY pile imaginable was nulled by MM... just that a very large portion (and especially the cheaper piles) require a 1cc spell. I believe 99% of Cheezeburger's sheet has a 1cc spell in it.

and your example pile also requires BBB bringing it to BBBBUUR2 - with 9 mana I can sculpt some piles that beat a LOT of stuff, especially since (in this example) we're taking for granted they don't mmstep your dark ritual to get started (or you use cabal / just have a sh*tton of mana).

Again, I'm not saying MM is the end of the world... just that it's not something you want to see spoiled.

[GGoober]

But MM coming into the format is not something we can avoid. Basically, it's going to be a thorn for all combo decks, and a little more annoying for DDFT to mulligan more aggressively where they could have kept a mediocore hand with Top and sculpt (you can no longer do this unless you have a Duress + Top in opening hands).

To be fair, the deal with MM is that fundamentally it's still a 1-1. As long as you recognize this and pack enough 1-1 yourself e.g. Duress/Thoughtseize, you will be able to play around it.

I wasn't saying EVERY pile imaginable was nulled by MM... just that a very large portion (and especially the cheaper piles) require a 1cc spell. I believe 99% of Cheezeburger's sheet has a 1cc spell in it.

Then to be fair, most combo decks do need to resolve 1cmc spells to go off (TES/ANT/High Tide). No other storm deck has the ability to win through without 1cmc spells unless they luckily draw hands with LEDs and IGG/IT. This is the strength that I think DDFT has over other storm decks when MM is in Legacy. You do get your tops countered but you will probably lead with turn 1 Duress more often instead of turn 1 Tops. Every other storm deck has less chance to play against MM than DDFT does.

[leegoo]

I agree with that totally

[Pulp_Fiction]

I don't think your opponent looking through your deck is a bad thing. Once you play against them or someone sees what your playing they know you kill with Tendrils and Emrakul. But here is the thing, even though they get to look through your deck .. very few people can play this deck correctly, especially someone who is playing CB. So the fact that they look through your deck really will not help them since this is the level most are at: resolve Tendrils and play Shelldock to get Emrakul into play. Thats what everyone sees, knowing your protection spells doesn't help. They can count them .... so. But knowing I have Wipe Away in my deck will not change what card they name with Meddling Mage or what they name with Cabal Therapy.

I think it may actually work to my advantage, because they see cards they view as threats and board in a lot of things to handle JUST Emrakul and then they lose to storm, or they hate out Tendrils and forget I have access to Empty the Warrens. Most of my opponents know me at this point and don't look through my deck anymore. And when they do, they just sift through till they see SI and Emrakul and put it down. The fact that my opponent gets to look through my deck I find has little relevance.

@Mental Misstep: I think it is getting WAY overhyped. Time will tell, the card seems annoying at best and will snap some Tops off but ... hey I love that this may replace better cards like Spell Pierce and Stifle or even EE making EtW a LOT more effective. I think the card will punish people who are less thoughtful of their play (like having 2x Top in hand and leading with a Duress) that kind of thing but I am not 2 worried about it. Annoying yes, but good .... we will see.

[GGoober]

Pulp, especially with your lists with Burning Wishes, even if they started counting and trying to deduce your line of play, Burning Wish makes it hard for them to deduce if you're opting for a Tendrils/EtW/IGG path. I can even imagine yourself bluffing a Shelldock Pile and only to kill them off with lethal storm with BW and LEDs in your hand. I'm going to piece this up and test it out this weekend.

[Deviruchi]

After first 60 matches vs. decks playing MM I can say: we are not doomed at all (and I'm not in the same league as emidln, nemavera or Pulp_Fiction and probably never will). I hope people will start testing and stop writing about their feelings about MM.

[flrn]

After first 60 matches vs. decks playing MM I can say: we are not doomed at all (and I'm not in the same league as emidln, nemavera or Pulp_Fiction and probably never will). I hope people will start testing and stop writing about their feelings about MM.

The point about Mental Misstep is, that our tempo matchup sucks donkeyballs now. Nonblue decks playing that card aren't a concern. The way we play the Counterbalance Matchup postboard won't change either. Even Merfolk with Misstep should be still 50/50, since we were favored before. But against tempo decks our whole game plan is broken due to the printing of that card. Up until now we layed down lands in order to make their Daze's and Spell Pierce worse. We played Meditate over Ideas Unbound and boardet out most of our cc2 cards to blank their Spell Snare's. We played Chant's to drag out their Force of Will's. Now we can't do that anymore. All of the spells which are great against tempo decks are cc1 spells (Carpet of Flowers, Orim's Chant, Sensei's Divining Top). We can now either accept the fact that our tempo matchup has become way worse or we can come up with a new concept to fight that archetype.

[Dark Ritual]

Defense grid helps a lot. At least it was suggested in the SI thread as a way to beat MM. And defense grid isn't just limited to MM it stops a lot of countermagic as long as the opponent has less than 6 mana available we can win. We can also threaten with it on turn 2 before they drop a threat so we can have ample time to set up. MM is not the end of storm combo people it's decent against us but it isn't the nuts. Our tempo MU just got weaker sure but it isn't the worst if we SB properly. We could also maybe try city of solitude to stop control. Also nice about city of solitude is that it's good against CB. They have to proactively top on their turn to shut off only one type of CMC and we can fight through that if we know what CMC it is. If it's zero then we can sculpt a hand full of non artifact accel. If it's at one we just have to calculate that when we go off via doomsday since we can't recast a SDT we'll simply have to plan out how to properly reach 9 storm before casting tendrils or 8 storm if they have fetched twice. There is plenty of hate available for blue decks out there and even with stock lists we can still beat MM if we play around it right.

[leegoo]

@ FLRN - I think that may be a bit exaggerated... I think simply having so many 1 drops that thresh needs to answer is fine vs. MM. They do still have to draw the card which is a 4 of (if that many). Other than getting top/ponder countered on the play (which is bad, no doubt) I don't see it just throwing the matchup hugely in their favor. A large portion of the time it's going to be just like playing against daze (honestly, a good part of the time having to pay 1 more is pretty much effectively countering us going off that turn anyways, as very often I use every mana available going off)

Defense grid seems fine, City of solitude seems just a hair expensive, but might be ok as well. I think Abeyance is a passable replacement for chant/silence if MM is a huge problem. The card is good, and it's new, but after playing games against it, it doesn't dramatically change the way the matchup works beyond the fact that you need to be careful keeping hands that hinge on resolving a t1 cantrip (like 1land + top hands)

Also, the Emrakul + Show & Tell package isn't a terrible sb option against MM packing decks.

But again, I'm not saying MM isn't a good card against combo (and everything else)

[Pulp_Fiction]

Went 3-1-1 tonight with my regular list posted above. Made it 2 a top 8 out of .. 26-30ish people. Here is a brief description of the matchups and the piles I used.

Round 1: W/x Affinity (2-0)
g1: this guy never plays the same deck twice and since he played Blue control last week I assume aggro something this week. I am on the play and go turn 1 rit, DD. I build this pile: Brainstorm, Top, LED, IGG, Tendrils. I have Petal, Petal, LED, IT in hand ... simple IGG loop wins.

g2: He keeps a hand and slowly realizes he can't cast stuff (he is a good player and top 15rd the Atlanta SCG but he was already in a defeated mindframe at this point and didn't care). Turn 3 Meditate stack: Meditate, Petal, LED, LED, BW.

Round 2: RGb Zoo (2-1)
g1: I mull to 6 and keep an awkward hand. Stall after a Brainstorm whiffs and lose shortly after. Probably should have gone to 5 but I put him on Belcher (after seeing Tinder Wall and Taiga as he was basically showing me his deck while shuffling) and kept a hand w Duress. Player error on this one but I also just couldn't draw what i needed.

EDIT: I am typing this on my tiny notebook in my basement so I apoligize for the spelling errors. I am regretably not drunk posting this because most people on here know how much I like posting drunk. Sadly I am sober typing this, contrary to like 30% of my posts here :)

EDIT: I apologize for the spelling errors but I typed this on my notebook in my basement and the keys are tiny as hell. Regretably I am not drunk, and everyone on here knows how much I love updating this site drunk, but unfortunately I am quite sober, contrary to 30% of my other posts on this site :)

g2: I mull to 5 ecause I apparently don't play lands. This game needs some strange description and is a weird combination of luck and skill. Everytime I look with Top I can't find a shuffle effect or an action spell. So on turn 3 after missing on a BS, I drop Shelldock to look at a fresh set of cards and stick Emrakul under it (knew it was there after BS showed me Emrakul, DD, Tendrils). I CAN NOT FIND ANOTHER BLACK SOURCE TO CAST DD. I have in play: Top, Shelldock, Island, Sea, and Volcanic Island .... end of turn 6 he has 8 permanents and I am at 3, he is tapped out. A quick look with Top reveals a fetchland .... god damn, 1/3 of the deck wins at this point and I couldn't find my 3rd black source (Petal in hand). Play fetch and go into the think tank. I have never encountered this situation before but .... I realized I can build a pass the turn Meditate stack w Emrakul! I have 4 lands in play and enough 2 win. Play DD and build: Meditate, Petal, Rit, Rit, Tendrils and activate Shelldock with my hindering Island. Take my next turn, draw Meditate, swing for 15, and cast Meditate into a lethal Tendrils. This was just strange but it worked.

g3: I open: Brainstorm, LED, DRit, Petal, Island, Infernal Tutor, Cabal Ritual .... not sure if he boarded in Mindbreaks so I decide to Brainstorm and see: LED, Duress, land .... yep, turn 1 win with protection, turns out he didn't board in Traps. This is why you play combo; its strong most of the time and sometimes it just broken.

Round 3 - Bant Aggro (Thor) (2-1)
g1: Duress shows its clear and a turn 3-5 Meditate stack takes it easily.

g2: He rips like a pro!!!!! I get to a point where I try and combo off with a lot of rituals and BW for EtW (after Snare and Force) and he shows me a Spelll Pierce taking me to RRR floating ... eh, well played and drawn sir :)

g3: Similar to the first. Duress gets forced on like turn 5-7 and he has 2 cards in hand and is tapped out. I decide to go for it and say "alright Thor, show me Force and I scoop" .... he can't and I build a standard Meditate stack without BW and a few extra mana just in case of Daze or something weird (Meditate, Petal, Rit, Rit, Tendrils).

Round 4 Merfolk (1-2)
I get paired down since there were 3 people who were 3-0 and get my worst matchup. This right here is a good example of why I can't play TES, I don't have enought luck. I have to play a combo deck with Top to fight through the bullshit and force a win out.

g1: Mull to 6. Turn 3 Duress reveals nothing and I build (Meditate, LED, LED, Petal, BW).
g2: Mull to 5. Apparently I don't play lands and don't draw relevant cards.
g3: Mull to 5. Lands again .... wtf. Turn 1 Top reveals NOTHING. Turn 3 Brainstorm whiffs ... everything just went wrong. Naturally my opponents never have to mull and the deck curves out with double Cursecatcher, Lord and Daze, Pierce, and 2 other cards in hand ... I try to combo off but have no chance. He counters the fuck out of my DRit and ... nothing else. This is the level of luck I have, explains why TES does not work for me.

Round 5 - Painter
ID
Another of my buddies and we have a great chance of making top 8 but neither of us much care nor do we want to knock eachother out.

Top 8
Split between everyone, there is a tornado coming in Atlanta and everyone wants to leave. I left, but it is not in my nature to go home in times of crisis, fuck no, I went with a few buddies to the bar for $5 buckets. If a tornado hits, I certainly better be in a place with some damn beers.

I use my new store credit for 3x Abeyances just because they may spike because everyone is shitting their pants about Mental Misstep and I hope they may spike, but it would also be nice to have some. All things being said, I have seriously been giving City of Solitude some thought. Here is why I like it so much, it turns off counters sure ... BUT it turns off Wasteland and Karakas as well. So if you want to play Cloud of Faeries and build an Emrakul stack, this cards turns BOTH of them off. The problem though is that your opponent can still slow roll the Karakas and you just deck yourself. But, I think it really may have merit since it also answers CB by turning off Top and whatever Brainstorm shenanigans your opponent may do. Now I am not saying its good because I have not tested it .... at all. But I like the concept of Abeyance and City simply because of what they enable.

The more I think about it the more I like it, because you still get in a swing with Emrakul and if you build this pile: SI, Emrakul, Top, LED, Burning Wish and if you have 2ish lands in play ... its an auto win regardless of whether they bounce Emrakul or not. City of Solitude could make Cloud of Faeries good and maybe playing a singleton Stifle/Trickbind in the board could be worth it. I am just trying to throw out some discussion here because, for some reason I totally forgot both these cards turn off activated abilities. If MM turns out to be stupid good against combo (which I highly doubt) then we need to find relevant answers to it. And the more I started to think about City of Solitude the more I liked it. Again, this is all in theory, but I am really intrigued at the possibilities of playing this card. The main problem I see is that I have to go to a UBg build to maintain a semi-positive Stax/Stompy matchup and I am not ready to give up on Burning Wish any time soon ... its just 2 good. City of Solitude and Abeyance are certainly some food for thought though.

[Scopeye]

I have been thinking about city of solitude and chants as well but I don't know if the mana base can handle it because I am also unwilling to drop the burning wishes they are too good.

One way would be to go for more rainbowlands but that would mean less number of fetch lands for suffle effects so it might hurt the deck.

[DerFern]

I have been thinking about city of solitude (...)

seriously?! Most of the time you´re playing 10 fecthlands and 4 SDT. Wouldn´t that slow you down way to much?

[PunkRocker1134]

What do you guys think about relegating the Emrakul-Shelldock combo to the board. I found during my very basic preliminary testing and goldfishing that I only seem to want it against Counterbalance, and is only used in desperate measures elsewise. Am I doing something wrong here? When do you guys find yourselves most using that pile?

[leegoo]

What do you guys think about relegating the Emrakul-Shelldock combo to the board. I found during my very basic preliminary testing and goldfishing that I only seem to want it against Counterbalance, and is only used in desperate measures elsewise. Am I doing something wrong here? When do you guys find yourselves most using that pile?

It's only in my board. Although honestly I'm more in the thought of wanting it main... mainly to free up more SB slots and make g1 vs Cbalance better.

It's understandable not to want it main though... drawing Emrakul is probably the weakest thing the deck can do.

[PunkRocker1134]

Leegoo going from Pulp's list, what would you main over it? I feel like one more Tutor and ponder would be best.

[leegoo]

@ Punk

Mine is the German list with a bit of a changed manabase (still not 100% on whether running the non-blue fetches and basic swamp is worth it or not... it's been relevant a couple of times in testing)

Main Deck:

4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Doomsday
3 Duress
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Meditate
4 Orim's Chant
4 Ponder
1 Rain of Filth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tendrils of Agony

1 Bayou
1 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Echoing Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Wipe Away
4 Xantid Swarm

I'm not necessarily advocating this list over the versions with Burning Wish, as wish makes getting lethal storm a lot easier and gives you plenty of action (although this deck isn't necessarily lacking action cards like U/B ANT is) I do like having a "full" sideboard to work with though... personal preference. Although sometimes just making 10 goblins is REALLY good.

Also been going back and forth on the number of chants/silence. Hasn't really mattered yet in testing so I'd say if you don't have chants there's not much incentive to buy them.

[B.C.]

My current list is almost the same as leegoo, but I'm not playing white, so:

-3 Orim's Chant
-1 Ponder
+4 Thoughtseize
- Bayou, Scrubland, Tundra
+ Island, Swamp, Underground

My sideboard looks like:

4 Xantid Swarm
2 Deathmark
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Bayou
2 Spell Pierce
1 Llawan
1 Shelldock
1 Emrakul

[Namida]

Are there any advantages to keeping the deck UB instead of splashing the third color?