I am not sure if this still fits in this thread, but here is something to think about until new phyrexia is out.
I placed Top4 at a tournament in vienna today with this ponza list, only losing to a NO/S&T deck.
6 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 SSG
4 Stone Rain
2 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Seething Song
3 Arc Slogger
4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Trinisphere
4 Ankh of Mishra
3 Jitte
SB:
3 Anarchy
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Pyroblast/2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blood Moon
The deck just owns where the hellbent crew fails. Instead of discarding your whole hand in 1-3 turns you can keep
board advantage much safer with good creatures for the same cost with some extra tools DS lacks.
Like i said earlier, i was tinkering with etched champion, and he is really great even in non-affinity decks.
I had Metalcraft in every game assured by 4-6 Artifacts per game. He just gets the tokens for jitte like a real champ and
blocks Knight/goyf all day. Lodestone Golem and Trinisphere paired with Stone Rain screwed my opponents big time
and some could not even recover from the lock at all. Ankh of Mishra first turn was > Chalice 1 in this deck, and it did like
6 damage each game and 8-14 if the opponent fetches. This list was created due to boredom about 10 hours ago and i never thought
it would work out so well. But it did, so i share this with you guys and i hope i'll get some feedback on the list.
True strength lies in action. Let the weak react to me! -Kamahl, Pit Fighter
I'm definitely intrigued by your take on the artifact build we've all been scratching our heads, trying to attempt. Out of curiosity, did you find 20 red cards to be a tad light for Chrome? Or were you running it purely because you didn't have the Opals (although I also suppose one could argue you'd be afraid of the "Legendary," rule which, surprisingly, nearly every affinity player seems to forget :P). Ankh of Mishra seems like such an absurd card to win with, but it does get there and is very synergetic with the deck. 3sphere/Golem/Rain means they're required to drop lands if they want to have any chance against us but Ankh punishes them for doing so, then our moon effects negate the usefulness of their land. Etched Champion seems particularly plausibe in the artifact build and tbh I hadn't quite considered him.
Out of curiosity, how big was the tournament? And what were your MU's?
Forlorn Egoist
I thought Chrome mox was the way to go, because we dont run enough lands for Mox Diamond and i really dont like Mox Opal in a deck with explosive starts and only 1/2 containing of artifacts.Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist
The tournament was like 19 people and my matchups were as following:
1.Round Kiki Jiki/Paladin Infinite Combo
This was quite a challange since he played lotus blooms. My only advantage was to rain a color away from him which supposed to be blue or white. I couldn't win this preboard, but postboard i just Revokered Kiki Jiki, got there with damage of Ankh, Golem and anarchy won me both games for removing nasty enchantments. Boarded Champion out on this because i didnt see creatures until turn 4 against him.
2. Round Show and Tell NO
Now this was going to be hard anyway. I went for first turn Magus, resolved. He fetched on a Tundra.
He does nothing and passes. I draw and play a second magus, he goes for Plains, Stp. My turn i stonerain his plains, running into FoW. Next turn he swords my second magus. Then he goes for 2x Chill, screwing my other moon. Doesnt take him long to go for Show and Tell Progenitus.
Next game i boarded Pyroblasts and Anarchy against Show and Tell but this time he goes for manland, natural order Progenitus. Didnt find anarchy so i had no chance at all. Metamorph would improve this matchup very much.
3. Deck with Locus/Candelabra
Didnt really know what hes up to, only that he doesnt run time spiral. I go for 1st turn seething song, slogger.
He plays a locus that triggers a bit of lifegain, followed by vesuvas next time. Slogger gets there alone quite handy, followed by a golem sealing the game. Turn 2 i boarded ratchet bomb and pyroblasts. The match turned out similar, i got there with magus and golem and ratchet bombed his candelabra quite early. He hurkyls recall bounces all of my artifacts, having magus and monkey still beating him down.
4. Elves
Phew, got some headache here, but still quite winable.
I had ankh and trinisphere and champion with jitte ig game1. He was kinda screwed because of mull to 4 and i won pretty easy. Game 2 i boarded revoker and ratchet bomb to disable those nasty combat elves. He krosan grips my jitte with 4 counters(OUCH!) and gets the combo of at 1 life remaining, going into emrakul. Game3 he mulls to 6 and i keep my hand, containing a mox, ssg, stone rain, trinisphere, tomb, great furnace and etchet champion. I drop trinisphere turn 1. he goes forest. I go etchet champion while topdecking a jitte. He doesnt play a second forest. I equip jitte and beat. he goes for a second forest he just drawed. I go stonerain on his second forest. Next turn i put revoker on priest of titania and it was winmore, as trinisphere paired with stone rain already was gg.
5. So here i got a bye technically since my opponent didnt show up. So for fun we remaining dudes without opponent startet to play a 3 on 3. I was up against goblins and enchantress. Ok first turn i go with lodestone golem. Second turn i equip jitte and bash enchantress, goblin gets out a aether vial and enchantress, well, enchants a forest for 2nd mana. In my next turn i stone rain enchantress' enchanted land lol and bash him with jitte again. Goblin went for enchantress too and my next turn killed enchantress with 6 jitte counters remaining on my golem. I stonerained rishadan port from goblin and killed all his important goblins with my jitte + golem. Kinda funny winning against Enchantress and Goblins with a ponza deck, but i think its worth mentioning. :D
True strength lies in action. Let the weak react to me! -Kamahl, Pit Fighter
ThoSha I'm really intrigued by this approach.
Thanks for posting.
I've been looking for a solid non-hellbent version for a while so I may mess around with this.
I'm like to see the full 4/4 moon effects, revoker, hmmmm... Maybe Covetous Dragon could work after all.
To be honest, I've been thinking about stone rain for a while. I never considered ankh here even though I used to play a Pirates! deck.
Time to grab Goblin Settler before their price skyrockets? ;)
Interesting approach. I had tried a pseudo LD package before with Aftershock and Dwarven Blastminer, but I never had the balls to actually MD Ankh. It didn't work out, but that was before Lodestone and Etched Champion were played. I'll have to try this.
Red Wizard needs food badly!
Oh my sweet lord, it's Neo Ankh Sligh. I am in love.
I lol-ed at the Ankh deck! But stone rain + Trini + Moons + other land screw do have their merits! I'm tingling all over to make the ultimate land screw deck! On topic though, I dislike Ankh, simply because we are not really in a hurry to hurt opponents early game. I want to be casting my screw card early. Here's a converted stompy list I plan to try:
4 Chalice
4 Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Magus
4 Stone Rain
4 Revoker
4 Avalanche Rider (Carries a Jitte, so what the heck?)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Jitte
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Chrome
4 Tomb
4 City
10 Mountains
Let the Screw begin!
In theory your list might be better, but in reality you just want that stupid chumpblocker with jitte that just lasts forever :D The reason why many LD builds suck is because they insist on running Avalanche or goblin ruinblaster. And without ankh it just takes forever to kill someone, except your drawing luckily into multiple golems and/or jitte.
Oh and nvm on the goblin settler. He seems like an awesome addition to the deck :D this dude seems so good that it might be worth to cut the champion for him, but thats personal taste i guess.
True strength lies in action. Let the weak react to me! -Kamahl, Pit Fighter
I like Etched Champion but if I cut anymore red cards, I'll drop below 20 red! I really like Chalice and Revoker since testing has shown them to be insane. The list you posted loses to Aether Vial, period. Chalice and Revoker give you some outs to that card. Cheers.
I don't know why, but this new take on DS makes me giddy all over. ~oo~
I'm not sure whether or not I want Etched Champion he's conveinant because he can take on any opposing creature while still punching through with Jitte/Swords to finish the game, but I am also finding that he and Revoker are trying to occupy the same spot. Revoker is amazing MD, but I may consider downgrading him to SB. LD game 1 should be a sufficient lock on the opponent then I can rely on SB games 2/3 based on the MU. Then again my meta has recently seen 2 UR Painter, 1 Cephalid Breakfast, and a Dredger so MD Revoker might be a necessity. o.O
Anyway, hopefully I can test the list next week at the local Legacy.
Forlorn Egoist
My list contains 18 red cards for chrome mox and i was quite satisfied with it. If you cant pitch to mox then just play it without imprint or dont play it at all, period. So many decks with FoW would be bad if they kept 22+ blue cards only for force, so i dont get the difference here.
I agree with the Aether Vial problem. Of course we lose to that issue, but thats what dragon stompy does at all.
The only answer you have to vial is jitte, and postboard you can add up revokers and ratchet bombs which help a lot.
Im not fond of MD revoker. Never was, never will be. But if you know what you are doing you can switch MD/SB Champion for Revoker. In such a case you would side Champion in if you see big animals preboard like Goyf or Knight.
True strength lies in action. Let the weak react to me! -Kamahl, Pit Fighter
...and what do you think about the combination of goblin settler + lodestone golem + phyrexian metamorph?
I would go for Etched Champion, Revoker OR Goblin Settler in this slot. I mean you could cut sloggers too for more land destruction, but wouldnt that suck? =/ Needs some further testings i guess, but i am going for steel stompy next week. Still interested in seeing other results with this deck.
True strength lies in action. Let the weak react to me! -Kamahl, Pit Fighter
I like the synergy in this deck but without Chalice @ 1 aren't you susceptible to...the entire format? The original point of the deck was for the mana curve to not be affected by Trinisphere and Chalice @ 1/2. It works in a lot of ways but without a reliable LD (being that there's only a playset in the MB) is it more consistent than the Hellbent versions?
I would run:
6 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Seething Song
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Urabrask the Hidden
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Wurmcoil Engine
I'm sorry Rakdos but haste is awesome!
Urabask is the blows. Seriously. There are a TON of better 5-drops that already are barely if at all making the cut. Slogger wins more games than this guy. Forgemaster in Moon Mud wins more games than this guy. Hell, Chandra Nalaar would win more games than this guy.
After a lot of testing, I feel like Dragon Stompy needs to go one way or the other. Either go Red, go Chrome Mox, go Hellbent, and stay away from artifacts that don't auto-win, or run Moon MUD with Monolith/Opal for acceleration and pretty much your only red guys are Magus, Blood Moon, and maybe Moltensteel Dragon or a couple other random goofy bits of tech.
The artifact version with 8 Moons is probably stronger in a vacuum. But with artifact hate on the rise, the edge is probably more questionable.
Could you post a list like that?
The Ponza Stompy variants just seem to be oozing with potential.
Ankh of Mishra is an incredible card.
Making your opponent take five damage per fetchland is devastating, especially combined with LD.
Goblin Settler is an awesome find too. LD + equipment carrier/chump blocker in one card is a good deal even at four mana.
Without trying to flame here, but what does the LD direction actually do for the deck that the traditional Dragon Stompy (or Equip-based) can't do? So far all I see are people running decks with bad cards as an effort to make them "appear good."
Everyone's trying to push Dragon Stompy in many different directions that it's hard for me to keep track or interest on what direction is worth considering. People want Ponza, people want Equipment, people want Metalcraft. I'm not opposed to change in this thread, but can we have a sensible, if not feasible, reason to push the deck in a different direction? I can understand people wanting to add more Equipment to the deck. That's not even really a push, technically, but it is and it's understandable because the deck wants to win against tribal and other creature wars. But Ponza??? Forget Dragon Stompy, when has that strategy EVER been a successful strategy in Legacy?
@ Shawon
I understand what your talking about. I've notice DS in particular to be a deck that has thousands of different tangents people want to take it. I think what people are trying to do with DS is take it in directions that aren't considered "good,' mainstream. DS at its core is a meta-dependant deck but many people, including myself, enjoy playing the deck to such an extent we want to make it viable in metas which contain decks beyond Landstill/Lands/Thresh which are essentially auto-wins. Naturally this means testing ideas which in todays metas might be somewhat uncouth. Ponza, although far less viable currently, still offers us a LD aspect that hasn't been tested thoroughly. Just because it hasn't been used successfully in Legacy up to this point (aside from Stax players using 'Geddon) doesn't mean its a junk strategy. As of right now, DS's current lists aren't posting results, so I think revisiting some old ideas is sound.
Ankh of Mishra especially could find value for us. For a 2 mana investment you slow an opponents tempo as their less willing to make their land drops; You have now turned 3 fetchlands into near-lethal damage. Combining this with 3sphere/Lodestone essentially requires them to make land drops if they want to cast anything, and Moon effects negate their ability to color fix. It's not a build I'll say will auto-win for us nor will I say the idea is completely subpar. However, I for one would like to see DS evolve beyond a deck that might show up at a tournament, luck out and get paired up against ideal MU's before crapping out to "good," decks. If a Ponza-list can get us into some higher tier results, I'm willing to test it. Although that having been said, I don't think I'm quite ready to pull my Fire Diamond's and Tectonic Break's from my box yet. :P
Speaking of Ponza, why, oh why, was I ever running 'Clasm/Fallout when Cave-In exists? XD
Forlorn Egoist
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