[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[ThoSha]

I like the synergy in this deck but without Chalice @ 1 aren't you susceptible to...the entire format? The original point of the deck was for the mana curve to not be affected by Trinisphere and Chalice @ 1/2. It works in a lot of ways but without a reliable LD (being that there's only a playset in the MB) is it more consistent than the Hellbent versions?

The point of my ponza attempt was to make TriSphere a good card again in this kind of deck. That was only possible with Lodestone Golem+Land Destruction. So Chalice at 1 still wouldn't affect us, but i like the Ankh in this slot much better, as it puts a lot of pressure on the opponent right away. When you have a sick start, you can go for Ankh 1st turn, trinisphere 2nd turn, stone rain or lodestone golem 3rd turn which screws a LOT of people. As for consistency, i think thats one of the biggest advantages against regular DS. Lodestone Golem and Etched Champion are just way better than Gathan/RPD, because of consistency + screw effects.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

The thing is, Trinisphere has always been a good card in this deck. The fact that people think otherwise boggles my mind.

[Mr Pirakos]

How does the Golem stack with the Sphere?

[Tacosnape]

The neat thing about Trinisphere is that against some decks, it just wins. Against others, it's like a 4-5 turn timewalk. And then sometimes you'd draw it on turn three and it'd just be terrible and you'd lose from having to spend your resources playing a card that wasn't helping you in order to get Hellbent and keep your tempo up. And Trinisphere is crap on the draw. Like even moreso than the rest of the deck, which says a lot.

And FWIW, Trinisphere and Lodestone Golem don't stack up at all. Trinisphere's always last. Meaning there's no way to get them to pay 4 for a 2CMC or less spell out of the deal.

[guidogulp]

Actually if you have a 2cmc you'll just pay 3, as golem increases the cmc and then the trini effect applies...

[Koby]

Actually if you have a 2cmc you'll just pay 3, as golem increases the cmc and then the trini effect applies...

Trinisphere checks to see if you've paid at least 3. Golem increases it by 1. So a 2 cmc spells gets 1 added from Lodestone, then Trinisphere checks (and does nothing).

Trinisphere + Lodestone Golem for spells that cost:
1) 1 cmc raises it by 2 (Golem does nothing)
2) 2 cmc raises it by 1 (Golem does nothing)
3) 3 cmc raises it by 1 (Trinisphere does nothing)

The two cards have poor synergy.

[ThoSha]

What you guys somehow not get is that an early Trinisphere delays their hierarch, and lodestone golem fucks up their natural order. Against any other deck, we win anyway :P (except merfolk ofc)

[NecroYawgmoth]

After a lot of testing, I feel like Dragon Stompy needs to go one way or the other. Either go Red, go Chrome Mox, go Hellbent, and stay away from artifacts that don't auto-win...

The question for me in this case is: "Is Trinisphere a card to stay away from in this approach, or is it an auto-win card?"

[Shawon]

Here's what I think about Trinisphere vs. Lodestone Golem:

Against Blue, Trinisphere makes Force of Will cost three mana. Lodestone Golem makes Force of Will cost one mana.

Which would you rather have against Blue?

[NecroYawgmoth]

...

Against Zoo, Trinisphere makes Knight cost 3 and Lodsestone makes Knight cost 4. Also Golem can attack.
Against Folk, Trinisphere makes Reejerey cost 3 and Lodestone makes Reejerey cost 4. AND Golem can attack here also!!!!

Which would you rather have against Zoo / Folk?

-_- what an argument...

come on... We all know that Trini is the better card for DS, but Trini is that card what leads to the most constance-problems besides Slogger...

[Shawon]

Well, against Merfolk, they still run Force of Will and Daze so Trinisphere still does some good here game 1 at least. Game 2/3 on the draw I would never keep 3Ball.

Against Zoo, if you can drop a turn 1 3Ball, you have a pretty strong advantage as they have to wait until turn 3 to cast a 1-drop, or a burn spell. Plus, if you run equipment, you reduce the possibility of Zoo burning or exiling your creature in response to equipping.

I didn't think it was that bad an argument :/

[NecroYawgmoth]

Well, I don't wanted to sound harsh or stuff, so sry about that =/...

I just don't think that FoW is the card which is saying: "play Trini because of me"


But every 3rd person here is asking for Lodestone... I mean... I really <3 Lodestone, but at 4 Mana he seems so wrong in DS.

He is totally OK in Moon-Mud, but not in DS... I also don't know if I'd fit Trini in the main or in the side as it is an lovehated card =P

[ThoSha]

...

Against Zoo, Trinisphere makes Knight cost 3 and Lodsestone makes Knight cost 4. Also Golem can attack.
Against Folk, Trinisphere makes Reejerey cost 3 and Lodestone makes Reejerey cost 4. AND Golem can attack here also!!!!

Which would you rather have against Zoo / Folk?

-_- what an argument...

come on... We all know that Trini is the better card for DS, but Trini is that card what leads to the most constance-problems besides Slogger...

See Necro.. thats exactly what i ment before i got flamed from all sides for trading Lodestone Golem for Sphere :D

Nevertheless, i think DS as it once was played is somewhat outdated.. Lets see how the new lists with Priest/Moltensteel/Metamorph work out and if we still need something like Trinisphere or Lodestone at all.

[Shawon]

I think what could be a helpful exercise in determining what direction to go in is answering this question:

What decks does Dragon Stompy NEED to beat?

By knowing what matchups DS needs to address, we can move forward to creating a build that is optimal for the metagame it is targeting.

[NecroYawgmoth]

Well... The high-tier meta...

AdN-Combo / Dredge / Merfolk / Zoo / Team Amercia Thresh and Countertop variants...

Or what do you think?

[guidogulp]

For me, DS should be modeled according to your meta... But in any case we'll almost always see a Dark Horizon / The Rock, Folk, Goblin, Countertop variants (correct me if I'm wrong, but those decks are always getting tops)

But, as I see it, we should get to a DS version that is, in the overall, good in any meta... For me the thing is to reach a good version and then model it to your specific meta

So... should we go equipments or bomby creatures? (I don't see any other viable option) As for the equipment version, the pitfall in it is playing little creatures that can't stand the fight without equipments, so I'm going bomby right now

[Clark Kant]

Without trying to flame here, but what does the LD direction actually do for the deck that the traditional Dragon Stompy (or Equip-based) can't do? So far all I see are people running decks with bad cards as an effort to make them "appear good."

Everyone's trying to push Dragon Stompy in many different directions that it's hard for me to keep track or interest on what direction is worth considering. People want Ponza, people want Equipment, people want Metalcraft. I'm not opposed to change in this thread, but can we have a sensible, if not feasible, reason to push the deck in a different direction? I can understand people wanting to add more Equipment to the deck. That's not even really a push, technically, but it is and it's understandable because the deck wants to win against tribal and other creature wars. But Ponza??? Forget Dragon Stompy, when has that strategy EVER been a successful strategy in Legacy?

There's a ton of synergy with the decks current strategy and Ponza.

Dragon Stompy's mana disruption fails when the opponent manages to fetch up a basic land before you're able to get out a Moon effect. Cards like Stone Rain and Goblin Settler take out that basic land and screw your opponent.

Lodestone Golem is already a solid card in Dragon Stompy, but it's made even more powerful by LD.

Trinisphere (I only play 3 copies), is hindered once the opponent manages to play a third land, but again, this is diminished by LD.

Ankh of Mishra forces your opponent to take 5 damage everytime they play a fetchland. That effect is greatly amplified by LD.

Moltensteel Dragon and Covetous Dragon are both very powerful cards that supplement the high artifact count.

And by playing so many artifacts, the deck can get away with playing Mox Opal in place of Chrome Mox, greatly diminishing the card disadvantage the deck suffers from.

As a long time Pox player, I understand just how devastatingly powerful a strategy land destruction is. Unfortunately, Pox never had a great clock to captialize on the LD. And it never had cards like Trinisphere and Lodestone Golem to supplement the LD. Dragon Stompy has both.

[guidogulp]

By playing stone rain or that other creature you just continue adding cards that suck being topdecked (which is why trini is somewhat a lovehated card)

You should have some balance between messing with your opponent's strategy and having one of your own that can actually win easily, by making DS into ponza you just break that balance... but it's just me guessing

[ThoSha]

The point why Trinisphere can be a bad card is that it does nothing on its own except buying you some time on the 1st or 2nd turn. As soon as your opponent hits his 3rd land you can say goodbye to trinispheres usefulness, as playing only one permanent per turn in a format full of Knights, Goyfs, Natural Order and Show an Tell isn't quite a burden.
There were times when i beat TES with Turn 1 Trinisphere and there were times when 3ball just lost me a game because it wasn't a beater and i was just not drawing into others except my first 2 who got handled. Lodestone Golem is just the better card for regular Dragon Stompy atm, and i only returned Trinisphere because it had good synergy with landdestruction. But whatever, i dont think we're gonna see lots of combo in the upcoming meta, so its usefulness stays in boarders.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

The question for me in this case is: "Is Trinisphere a card to stay away from in this approach, or is it an auto-win card?"

Trinisphere is THE auto-win card.