Solid list. You can always go -2 Pierce (yes play a singleton pierce) for +2 flex slots (Kira or whatever else you need to play).Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Decks that I care about:
Steel Stompy
UWx Landstill
Dreadstalker
DDFT (10% practice)
Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
Mental Misstep hasn't been as good as I would have hoped in testing, but still pretty good. Stopping Bolt/StP on my Lord-stacking and stopping opposing Vials have been game winning plays. Being able to stop turn 1 Thoughtseize has been important (1-land Vial hands, for example). Additionally, stopping certain 1cc creature plays has been very useful, particularly Lackey, Mom and Lavamancer. Unfortunately, outside of these circumstance, most other uses have been, 'meh'.
Not being forced to lose a land drop (Daze), leave 1 mana open and lose tempo (Spell Pierce), or pitch a blue card (FoW) is pretty sweet, but this card becomes far less valuable when you aren't stopping a big turn 1 play. As previously pointed out by SlopeeJ, if it isn't in your opening hand, then it isn't nearly as good. The fact that it is a hardcounter is nothing to sneeze at though, and it has a sort of staying power that Daze eventually doesn't have. On the play, I prefer Daze to MM (especially because there isn't always a turn 1 play I think is worth stopping, and Daze is used then on turn 2 or 3), and the draw, MM to Daze. Together, having both in the opening hand, is pretty cool. You don't lose your tempo stopping a good turn 1 play with MM, and then you make a turn 2 play, and have Daze to stop their turn 2 play -- MM makes Daze better, in some ways. In some matches I absolutely prefer Spell pierce, and others MM; the matches I'm worried about the most, however, are where MM is better than Spell pierce.
peace,
4eak
Have you had a misstep war with a non-blue deck yet? There will be decks for quite some time to come that will try to use this card when they really shouldn't, and I suspect Merfolk wielding this card will prey on them.
That being said, I think there will be new archetypes built upon abusing this card, and we may need to shift focus to them as well. Oh, joy!
Really i have beaten merfolk after cracking there standstill on multiple occasions. Granted i was playing a version of zoo where i could just ignore a pretty large protion of the deck and kill every lord played. I also play merfolk and have won past a resolved standsitll in the mirror too. net gain of two cards is nice but its not like its always going to win you the game.
Test this out:
12 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Kira the Glass Spinner
4 AEther Vial
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Mental Misstep
Calls for banning are almost always the scrubs way out. Real men view a challenge as something to overcome, a puzzle to solve, an opportunity to be had, and the source of evolution.
I think I've come to the conclusion that Mental Misstep actually makes Standstill worse, not better.
Mental Misstep firmly sets Merfolk's role in that of an aggro tempo deck. It cares less than ever about the cards. It wants to drop a ton of lords down, fast, and disrupt you a bit on the way there with 12 free counters. Standstill doesn't fit this scheme.
And FWIW, I pretty much agree completely with 4eak's assessment of Mental Misstep. The card can sometimes just be the blows midgame, but it's still a hard counter, and just having it in your hand to shut off that removal spell is a thing of beauty.
Basically, why I don't like Standstill these days is that it requires so much mini-comboing, fenagling, and general bullshit that I'd rather just play creatures, counter their best cards, hopefully mana screw them, and -> win? Standstill is an ok card, but I really feel that the deck plays tighter without it, and its shittiness in matchups that I'm trying to improve tends to outweigh its benefits against the decks it's still good against.
As far as further +1ery, I also think 4eak's assessment of Mental Misstep sounds pretty accurate for this deck. I think it's kind of tempting to sneak in 1 Misdirection into the main, to supplement the counter strategy and have one more card for which to pitch Missteps once they've worn out their welcome and I'm no longer concerned about most of my opponent's one mana spells... I think mostly I just want to find a use for my one copy of Misdirection that's been sitting around for forevah in my 'extended sideboard' for this deck.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Another day/night of testing I am standing by what I said and agree with 4eak. Mental misstep has been good sometimes, but I still want to kill myself when it isn't in my starting 7. StarScream to answer some of your questions, yes it is good on the draw to hit vial/duress etc. It is good if they have 1 swords/bolt etc but sucks if it is a deck that has swords/path bolts etc. I still want kira, even had a game where dude went double path on kira then I ripped the misstep haha (wanted to smash my laptop) Misstep would have been a blow out....
DukeDemonKnight I agree with what your saying, but I think standstill is so good vs storm/control/discard and without it they are not as good. It basically comes down to running 1-2 more lands and 1-2 lords/sower or spell pierce what ever and I think the broken standstill hands or just drawing 3 is worth it. I hate running more than 20 lands and you have to without standstill, esp if you want to support sower. Another thing I really don't think the no standstill versions have that much better zoo matchup or at least enough to justify hurting the good matchups. Maybe misstep will help this but they do have more bolts/cats then we have missteps and if everyone is correct zoo will have 4 missteps also.
Here has what it has been like for me haha. And to be fair standstill isn't that great in the picture either, even though he broke one drawing me the missteps haha
List is work in progress but here is what I have been testing, went down to 3 misstep
// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
13 [ZEN] Island (3)
3 [MOR] Mutavault
// Creatures
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [TSB] Lord of Atlantis
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
2 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [NE] Daze
3 [NH] Mental Misstep
4 [OD] Standstill
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [NE] Submerge
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 4 [NH] Surgical Extraction
I am wondering how necessary Kira is while this deck us using Mental Misstep. I am going over the circumstances around losing lord, and they almost all look like a 1-mana spell.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
This makes sense, but Kira counters a spell/effect every turn. They need to run a second at a lord/Kira in order to nail our guys. Seems like misstep in tandem with Kira is the best option to help against zoo, which is one of the worst matchups. This is what I'm thinking when misstep is legal
12 island
4 wasteland
4 mutavault
1 mishra's factory
4 force of will
3 standstill
4 daze
3 mental misstep
4 aether vial
2 Kira
4 cursecatcher
4 lord of atlantis
4 merrow rejeery
4 silvergill adept
4 coralhelm commander
I know it is 61 cards.. I think the deck can turn a little more to the control side with misstep in the mix. At least with standstill you can bury them in card advantage, and in matchups where it is not feasible, you can just take them out for your board cards
TEAM AWESOME
Well, at least we smell better
In the last days i was wandering if run jitte or kira main deck...kira is great against removal spell even against `maze of ith at worst is a blue card to pitch to fow but jitte gives the deck that vesatility against some resolved anoying creatures. Which do you think is better? Is it just a meta call??
Hey everyone,
So I went to the GPT in syracuse yesterday placing first in the swiss (5-1-0) and 5th overall with the following fish list. I would have loved to run 2x kira but I just couldn't get my hands on one
Vicious Fishes by Swindy
[creatures 25]
4x Cursecatcher
4x silvergill adept
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x coralhelm commander
4x merrow reejery
2x merfolk sovereig
1x kira, great glass spinner
2x sower of temptation
[spells 13]
4x force of will
4x daze
1x spell pierce
4x aether vial
[land 22]
14x island
4x mutavault
1x mishra's factory
3x wasteland
[sideboard 15]
3x spell pierce
2x umezawa's jitte
2x back to basics
2x relic of progenitus
2x llawan, cephalid empress
2x mindbreak trap
1x hydroblast
1x blue elemental blast
ROUNDS:
round one vs ANT
game 1: He never did much of anything, I kill him turn 5 and all he has done is play lands and a few cantrips, I know its ANT at this point because I recognize some of the cards are those of someone i know who runs ANT
game 2: he goes off turn 3 through a daze, spell pierce and force of will, I never had a chance
game 3: He does a lot of crafting work and hits an ad nauseum once I got him to about 7 life. he flips ad nauseum and tendrils of agony as the 3rd and 4th cards, killing himself
1-0
Round two vs Some crazy deck with kiln fiend
This one was a bit strange as it was a deck i had never seen.
game 1: he drops kiln fiend once I have a few fish in play and then proceeds to kill them all with burn spells and the smack me for like 30+ in 2 turns
game 2: in comes all the counter spells, I never let him hit the board except for a single kiln fiend which dies to a lord, Kira keeps my fishes strong and the lords keep them swinging
game 3: its a close game but he bobs into a tombstalker when i have him at 7 life
2-0
round three vs mono B discard
game 1: I mull to five, he keeps, he empties my hand after I drop a vial, keeps me off board all game. at this point, I'm scared to death
game 2: I drop vial and pass turn, he thoughtsiezes and takes a long time to decide as I have the nuts draw. I drop merfolk after merfolk playing 3 silversills off 2 rejjery triggers and then 2 lords and 2 curses follow, over run with fish
game 3: slaughter. turn 5, swing for 40+
3-0
round four vs BR goblins
I dont really remember these games well. I know game one I countered a ton of shit and won but games two and three all i really know is a bunch of angry green men beat the crap outta me. I was out classed and out played.
3-1
round five vs mono R goblins
So round five has me paired against a good friend of mine running goblins. I'm scared, this is not a match that goes well for me most the time
game 1: I out race him with a lot of luck on my side, agro vs agro was all
game 2: he answers my three lords with three piledrivers. when the third drops he doesnt bother continuing his turn, just reaches across to shake hands for a good game. I laugh and shake scooping up my cards
game 3: Kira saved me. just as he was going to kill off my lords with sharpshooter i top deck kira and win the game
4-1
round six vs affinity
So come round six I'm 4th in the standings and my friend playing affinity is 6th. I die a little inside as I lose 70% of my games with him and i really wanted to win some dual lands. at this point i think i'm done but i go play it
game 1: he mulls to 4, taking away his speed, thats all i need to win
game 2: I mull to 5, he eats me alive, doing what affinity does to merfolk
game 3: I don't really remember I was shaking so bad XD all i know is I won
5-1
so with a 5-1 record and AMAZING tie breakers (2 people I played made top 8 and 2 others with in top 10) I get 1st in the swiss when the two 6-0s draw (so really i'm 3rd) I head to top eight
top eight round one vs BW tempo
game one: he destroys my hand but i bounce back taking the game with 2 life left
game two: vampire nighthawk hits the board and gets a sword of fire and ice, i lose
game three: turn one, swamp dark rit, e plague on merfolk, same thing turn two. I lose hard.
This puts me in 5th place with a nice set of NM volcanic islands for my troubles
so that was my experience with my build, I really could have used another elemental blast and another kira. I loved my 2x sowers and going 8 colourless with one less wasteland really helped. I decided to go with 1x factory instead of another waste because late game the factory can be good, a waste is usually dead after about turn 5 or 6.
questions or comments?
I think Mishra's Factory over the fourth Wasteland is absolute malarchy. And Mindbreak Trap seems a little bit like wasted space unless you have a very Stormy meta. Other than that, seems pretty solid. 'Grats on the finish.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Has anyone here tested dismember in the md or sideboard?
So why not just cut Cursecatcher?
Calls for banning are almost always the scrubs way out. Real men view a challenge as something to overcome, a puzzle to solve, an opportunity to be had, and the source of evolution.
well i have 0 idea what malarchy means (cant find it in a dictionary either) but i'm guessing its bad so, justification:
Early game (turns 1-4) wasteland is amazing, it can ruin tempo and shut down decks that run few basics. late game though, it becomes dead unless they are getting mana screwed. so yes, cutting to 3 waste lowers my chances of hitting one early on but i felt that 9 colourless sources was just too many (far to many games hitting a waste or manland when i needed a island) and after a decent bit of testing I found that the 2-4 damage the factory could help put out was more important. also, with a reejery on board i have used it to swing for the win by pumping a mutavault 5 times (kept droping fish but i would die before they could swing). no one expects something like that.
The mind break traps are a bit of a waste of space but they come with a bit of a story. I have a friend who runs ANT that is beyond amazing with the deck. he plays circles around me but almost always goes off unprotected, trap in my board lets me win games against him as it acts as just one more free counter spell. I am however very tempted to trade them out for a set of energy flux as well as dropping 1x spell pierce in the board for another blue elemental blast.
I know what I have isn't perfect but I really do stand by my choice to cut that 4th waste. I really think the deck plays better with one less colourless source
because it has legs
we are for all intents and purposes an agro deck with control elements. Cutting legs for counters is a bad idea most of the time
Not only is cursecatcher legs but he is our only 1 drop creature and serves a utility purpose of being able to apply pressure against combo while slowing them down.
"Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."
Greetings All,
I have been lurking and reading this forum for quite awhile and figured it about time that I chime in to offer some input and ask a question. First I have been playing Merfolk for a couple years, but have been playing various tempo/fish decks for quite a while. At the Grand Prix Columbus last summer, I played merfolk and missed day 2 by one match. At any rate here are my thoughts.
First my question is in regard to Mishra's Factory. Why are we playing this card? I understand that in combination with Merrow Reejerey we can get multiple pump effects onto a Mutavault, but this deck has limited space. Cutting Wasteland seems like a poor call as it wrecks many decks in the format. Moreover it significantly contributes to our tempo package, making Dazes and Spell Pierces more effective. And I wouldn't want to cut one of my 12 Islands for a Factory becuse then I would be getting low on blue mana source production. I guess I would just like some more explaination. Perhaps I will try it out and see for myself.
As for cutting Cursecatcher... bad plan. He is a selective counter with legs and as such gets pumped by all of your lords. He can save you by countering a key spell or beat for the win in concert with your lords. This makes him strictly better than another selective counterspell. Think about what would happen if you start cutting creatures, you wont have the aggro power you need to win.
Legacy
Grixis Delver
Vintage
Mono Mentor
Team Leovold
It's simply a singleton replacing a basic island, a deckbuilder's quirk used by Bertoncini (and others).
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