I just picked up a playset for $80 on ebay.
I don't think it will go much below that. But I think there is a chance it could go quite a bit higher than that.
Just because there isn't a monoblack aggro deck and/or a monoblack control deck in standard at this precise moment doesn't mean there won't be.
Between this, Go for the Throat, the new Duress, Geth's Verdict, Lashwrithe, that 1/1 lifelinking flyer, and all the vampires, black has all the tools it needs to have a strong format defining monoblack aggro deck akin to Vampires an year ago.
Also, Obliterator makes sui black/the gate a very viable budget deck in legacy, so it will see demand from that format as well.
Monoblack Aggro is a very popular deck among casual players, and Obliterator seems like the type of card that casuals would eat up.
Last edited by Clark Kant; 05-15-2011 at 01:57 PM.
@slypher: I would take that obliterator/persecutor statement as a matter of opinion, not fact. I personally do not like the BBBB casting cost, since I think its a pretty big mistake not to run wasteland in this deck(but I get how some are opposed and it can really be a meta call in some respects). Running dark ritual is something I personally don't want to do, as you can run more effective cards in it's place
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If we are playing more equipment, I much prefer Lashwrithe to any of the Swords equipment.
4 mana for a 4/4 or 5/5 or 6/6 that is also rather difficult to get rid of, and free to equip onto something else, is pretty damn strong.
Perhaps something like this...
20 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Dark Ritual
2 Duress
2 Inqusition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Mental Misstep
2 Go for the Throat
2 Doom Blade
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Lashwrithe
Look what this deck has become :/
Its like:
"Well i got a mono-black deck here. I'm just gonna post it in TheGate, i will get some attention until the next one posts some random pile of mono-black'ness"
Seriously, where has TheGate gone?
I assume its D E A D ....
They printed Nightmare Lash back in Mirrodin and we weren't running it and the equip cost is 1 life less for nightmare lash. I would assume you would almost always want to cast and equip the same turn so paying 3 life for lash is "better" unless you wanted to swap it between creatures and then the cost would become bothersome
Edit: didn't notice at first that lashwrithe was a living equipment. Still same cost, but nightmare lash can come down on a better creature is suppose. Both seem kind of lackluster.
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Fundamentally, The Gate is an Aggro Control deck. That hasn't changed, just some of the core cards have.
Because yes, Obliterator is better than Persecutor. Obliterator is a card that your opponent will pretty much never attack into, no matter how big their attacker. Plus, you don't have to find a way to kill it before you can win the game.
The deck looked considerably different before Obliterator. The Lashes don't work well with Wasteland. Neither does Obliterator. Even Gatekeeper can have poor synergy with Wasteland. Wasteland, while strong, just isn't that helpful when you're not playing any Sinkholes or Stifles or Ports to supplement it. You also open yourself up to getting your own Wastelands wasted when you are the one that is short on mana. You also give your opponent's Stifles a relevent target.
And the New Lash is definately better than Nightmare Lash. Being a Living Weapon is VERY relevent. Swarm aggro plays considerably more creatures than this deck, so effectively having more creatures to work as blockers until you can stabilize is relevent. Not being forced to pay life to equip it is also relevent.
Apology for the double post, but I'd like to address this.Originally Posted by sporenfrosch1411
I think some are taking a more aggro approach with the deck. A lot of these newer builds are more mono black aggro(suicide-esque). I think the deck in the form as it was on page 1 of this thread is still very playable, it just takes a more methodical playstyle and the discipline to keep hands that are going to disupt the opponent during the first few turns then drop a threat. This deck "wins small".
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The newer builds are slightly more aggressive, but they are retaining the bulk of the control elements at the same time.
They still play the slow methodical role of disrupting your opponent and then dropping a threat perfectly well. They can switch up to a more aggressive role when warranted. But fundamentally, they are still an Aggro Control decks. There is nothing all that suicidal about them. I don't see the lists playing Carnophages, Sarcomancies or Flesh Reavers. The creatures the deck plays are still played because of their disruptive roles, and their flexibility.
I see several people dropping cabal therapy, this is a very powerful card especially if you educate yourself with decks that you will be facing. I may be more partial to the card than some since inplay dredge as well, but therapy is a beast.
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cabal therapy is a MUST in the gate. no questions asked.
Lol, no it's not. Discard is a MUST in the gate, since the Gate is an aggro control deck. But no particular discard spell is a MUST.
Cabal Therapy is just yet another discard spell, in a deck that also has access to Hymn, Duress, Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek.
Also, even if you know your opponent is playing 4 copies of a card, the odds of a blind Cabal Therapy on that card fizzling are 60%.
Yeah, it can fizzle. But the big upside of therapy is you can whiff once and then rip multiple copies from their hand afterwards.
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Not to mention you don't necessarily need to name what you know is in their hand; a good play (often employed by Dredge) is to just name whatever you don't want them to land (sometimes even if you're not playing blind). The recursive nature of Therapy means you'll be able to hit something later.
It only recurs if you sac a creature to it. And there's nothing you want to sac. Even Gatekeeper is awesome with a Jitte on it. And aside from Gatekeeper, nothing of the other creatures are things you want to sacrifice.
Taking that some of the lists I see here are dropping bitterblossom. I could see therapy becoming much weaker without bitterblossom. I still see bitterblossom as a very strong card for this deck
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It doesn't work in your list because you're simply trying to lump together around 40 black cards which you believe to be the strongest. In more traditional (and I'd argue more successful) versions of the list, there is a high level of synergy present to take advantage of cards like Innocent Blood and Cabal Therapy.
You've cut some of the strongest cards in the deck, and indeed the game, to make room for a 4-drop that is on par with one we already have.
Since Zenikar, MBC in standard has had a good amount of finishers: Persecutor, Grave Titan, Wurmcoil Engine (not black, but it's effective), Massacre Wurm and a few I'm missing, and it has yet to be effective. I hardly see how Obliterator is going to make it viable. It doesn't solve any of MBC's current problems.
I've noticed this about testing both versions of The Gate (with Persecutor and with Obliterator) on Cockatrice:
The games are often decided due with the Nighthawk + Disruption + Attrition more than anything. I've won a lot of games where my Nighthawk and Confidant survived, but the Obliterator and Persecutor ate removal immediately. And honestly, the amount of times I've died with my opponent at a life lower than 0 is pretty negligeable (out of 30-40 games.......maybe once or twice). That drawback isn't a drawback with the original build of The Gate.
Taking out Bitterblossom is a HUGE mistake. That thing is pure card advantage, and it will win you the game against Control decks.
Without Bitterblossom, the gate isn't the gate. Go look at Deadguy, it may aswell be the gate without Bitterblossom and Percy, and instead of percy they have Goyf. Can we please stop removing Bitterblossom in this thread? It's what sets the deck apart from other decks, it's what makes the deck work. If you drop bitterblossom, you should drop Innocent Blood, Cabal Therapy, Jitte. All the sudden the deck is different. If you still run any of those cards without Bitterblossom. your a fool.
@Hot Soup:
You're getting it confused with Eva. But yes, Bitterblossom is what sets The Gate aside from other MBC or MBA lists by providing a level of synergy that no other card can provide.
Maybe. I mean the BW deck. It's basically the same deck with vindicate and goyfs. Bitterblossom sets The Gate apart from other Dark Confidant/Duress/Hymm decks.
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