[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[K1w1]

Hey Philip,
nice to see you here (instead of mtg-forum.de) Im actually there too, but i recommend to you, this is better here.

Ok, to your deck..

Lands: I would cut godless shrine. You should add 2 Swamps and 2 Fetchies, because you need more then 4 fetchies.
Why 2 swamps? I explain it later.

Creatures: 4 confidants = good. 2 and 3 gatekeeper + vampire = bad, my recommend is to play them as playset. Because you get with 4 gatekeeper a really good card advantage.(removal) And 4 vampires are just nice too. Especially if you're running dark rituals.

Why are you playing serra avanger? You dont play vials and wanna play 4 of them? I mean they are worthless without vial or you should play 2 of them. But for me, just for me, i would cut them all.

You are playing 21 white cards with 1 plains? I would say you should play more black.
With cc1 discard cards!!! It's nice to have them in your start hand or a ritual with nighthawk, or discard + bob (<- best imo )

Revoker isnt a mainboard card. Btw, i wouldnt play Mom without vials, because you can play her EoT with a vial and without summoning sickness.

Planeswalker: 1 elspeth? Play 2 or cut them. 1 Elspeth in your deck isnt worth. Just a place stealer.

Artifacts: Cut a Jitte! Play 1 more Sword. Like SoLaS.

Question to you...
1) How long are you reading this thread?


Pls! Just MY 2 cents.

[Einherjer]

Read the last 5-10 pages i guess - so... i have tested phyrexian revoker and i gotta say:hes great
Im playing mothers and Avengers - and I always have 1st turn mother and 4th turn avenger - never had any manaproblems (though im running a diff list = -4 wastes +2 plains +2 swamps) ok, i will cut 2 gatekeepers and add 1 nighthawk and 1....elsepth...
In the Meta im playing so many ppl using jitte..so its nice to have 2 - so i got a second one once they faded - I will test your suggestions - but as i dont like The Gate (Which is very similar to this deadguy then - once i run rituals and gatekeeprs ) Im not sure if ill keep this list
I cant afford Duals - got em from my friend so i use shockduals and instead of duals i run 2 swamps 2 plains once i play a tournament

so changes (which i would take to a tournament)
-4 Wasteland
-4 Scrubland
+4 Swamp
+4 Plains
-2 Gatekeeper
+ 1 Elsepeth
+1 Nighthawk

Why am I not playing Wastes? I prefer having a stable Manabase which can support a 4 T Avenger and a 1st Turn Mother
How do you like this improvements(if they are any^^)

And i have got a new name for Deadguy Ale - Mother of Dark Avenger :) oder Mother of Serra Confidant^^

Ok guys, thanks for answers - see ya Later

edit: I prefer this forum so much over the mtg forum ^^

[K1w1]

Why am I not playing Wastes? I prefer having a stable Manabase which can support a 4 T Avenger and a 1st Turn Mother

I recommend it to you. Because you will see some ( or all) decks are running nonbasic lands

Yeah you are right, its like the gate, but fact is, its LIKE gate. Its a completely different deck!

Think about it.

Btw, still too much white!

P.S.: sry that i have to say that, but you are doing the same like in german forum!
You see the changes and directly change your deck. Or you think, because 1 is commenting your decklist you have to trust him and think its right.
My deck isnt perfect too (no deck is it) . You just have to test your deck ( especially with different choices of cards ) and report us your results ( and go to tournaments and report us your games)

K1w1

[Leto]

1. if you want to stick to Avenger and Mom, you should add Vial or you won't play your deck to full potential. Without Vial they are "fair", and you don't want to be fair, esspecially in a mostly "fair" Deck like Deadguy.
2. I wouldn't play Shockduals, even if i don't have Scrublands. If you fetch on them and want them untapped, its 3 dmg for you = free Lightningbolt from your opponent. Thats simply to much, you need to adjust your manabase (play Scrublands), adjust your deck (only a light Splash on B or W) or play Vial to smooth the colours out
3. I would recommend you look into Death an Taxes as well, as it is really similar to your approach on Deadguy

[Leto]

three days between doubleposting should be ok, so here's my new deck list


Lands
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Plains (3)
5 Swamp (APAC)

Creatures
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk

Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Ghastly Demise
4 Hymn to Tourach (3)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Vindicate
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Engineered Plague
4 Extirpate


I think the deck is kind of Oldschool with its Maintheme being Discard+Hatebears.

Manabase is pretty Standard with Scrub and Wastelands, 8 Fetches for supporting Top and Ghastly Demise.

Creatures are the Staples of BW, with Bob and Stoneforge for Draw, Nighthawk and Percy for the beats and Gatekeeper as an Maindeck-Option for Pro/Emmy/Mongoose. Until now I am really happy about the Numbers, but I need to test this further.

Equipment-Package is obvious, at the moment I'm trying out, which Sword (BW or BG) is more advantage for my Deck.

For the Removal, I had the feeling that I needed a bit more CC1-Removal in the last time, maybe cause I am facing more tribal the last weeks (Gobbos and Combo-Elves, bit Merfolk) and CC2-Removal is to late in most games. So I looked at the Options I had:
Ghastly Demise is played in Dark-Thresh with sucess and my favorite in the field. All kind of Utility-Critters are only 1 in Toughness, for Example Lakay, Noble Hierarch, Confi. So if you are on the Draw you fetch and kill it, on the Play you can TS and have the option to kill them next turn. But the interesting Part on the Card is, it is not dead in lategame. If you draw it on later Turns, shooting down a Goyf is no problem at all.
Disfigure best card for me after demise. On Turn 1 its better, on following Turns its worse. Only relevant card on turn 1 it hits, that demise can't handle is Wild Nacatl
Innocent Blood Really good card, but only in the right Setup, and Deadguy has it not. I am playing not enough Critters to throw away one of mine to kill one of his.
Path to Exile Really good too, but again only in the right Decks, and I don't think, Deadguy can compensate a additional Landdrop of your Opponent good.
Lose Hope Same Problem as Disfigure, every turn after the first -1/-1 is not enough, even if the Scry is pretty cool.

Maybe I am dropping the demise again, if everyone and his mom are playing Mental Missstep, but time will show that.

Deck runs smooth in my testing, but would be cool, if someone in a different Meta would test it too. For suggestions I would be thankful too, sometimes I am a bit narrow, not seeing obvious things ;)

[Rizso]

Got a question for thoes that run more then 4 fetch without top. Whats your reason for running more then 4 fetches without top?

I feel that more then 4 fetch causes unnecessary self dealt damage. ATM i rather play with Caves of Koilos wich has great in my testing. Making the mana base stable. Able to cast both BBB cards and WW cards consistently.

[Einherjer]

Your deck looks quite good - even though i dont like the persecutor in any way - but ok thats my opinion - but Ritzso...why do you use caves of koilos.... try out the godless shrine - shockdual - i prefer it over painlaids - to be honest.

And... Leto, hows your equippackage working? 3 sfm and 3 equips ok? In my testing 2 were enough aswell - with 3 equipments + already found out which swords suits better?
Did you have alot of situations where you boarded Thorn of Amethyst successfuly? Id replace it with anything else.

Greetings

[Mr. Safety]

Has anyone been looking at Leonin Arbiter as a potential hatebear? You would have to be careful with fetchlands and search effects (Mystic) but it seems like a solid option.

[Leto]

You need to adjust both, Manabase and Creatures to cripple your Opponent more than yourself

Some quick thoughts about the changes
Manabase:
-Fetches (obvious)
+Shockduals

Maindeck:
-SFM
-Swords of
+Jitte
+Vial

BW-TempoVial with big Manadenial-Plan would be his best Place I think

@Philipp

Equips are very important in my deck, cause when they connect once, the opponent is in big trouble. He needs answers to them, and they need them fast. On the other Side I need equips to apply pressure fast enough, so that my Opponent can't recover. 3/3 is working good for me atm, if I would need a spot really bad, it would be a SFM.

[K1w1]

Hey guys,

i wanna take my chance to play my deck at a tournament in 10 days.

Current list:

//Lands
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
1 Plains

//Creatures
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant

//Sorceries
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
3 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek

//Instants
3 Diabolic Edict
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Dark Ritual

//Artifacts
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

//Sideboard
3 Extirpate
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Damnation
3 Null Rod

The only thing i'm thinking about is to cut this 2 Catacombs, because i dont play Tops and these are 2 more dmg i dont need.

Some issues?
I think my cardchoices are standardexplanations.
If you have some questions, ask me.

[Rizso]

Hey guys,

i wanna take my chance to play my deck at a tournament in 10 days.

Current list:

//Lands
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
1 Plains

//Creatures
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant

//Sorceries
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
3 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek

//Instants
3 Diabolic Edict
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Dark Ritual

//Artifacts
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

//Sideboard
3 Extirpate
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Damnation
3 Null Rod

The only thing i'm thinking about is to cut this 2 Catacombs, because i dont play Tops and these are 2 more dmg i dont need.

Some issues?
I think my cardchoices are standardexplanations.
If you have some questions, ask me.

Could you board evaluate your board choices. Whats the reason for Thorn of Ametyst instead of Ethersworn cannonist? No elf storm decks or?

Whats the reason for Damnation instead of Perish? And what you use Extirpate against?

Do you really need 15 maindecked removal? :P

[Einherjer]

I would play Ghastly Demise instead of Diabolic Edict - cause Demise actually worked well for me - at the beginning it can kill T1 creatures once you fetched, wasted or discarded and later on - theres enough stuff in the graveyard to deal with creatures like goyf.

[K1w1]

Could you board evaluate your board choices. Whats the reason for Thorn of Ametyst instead of Ethersworn cannonist? No elf storm decks or?

Thorn of Amethyst:
First - it's colorless.
Second - I wanna play more than 1 spell in a Turn ( Dark ritual or discard + creature )

Whats the reason for Damnation instead of Perish? And what you use Extirpate against?

I play Damnation > Perish because i can hit some other things like Goblins, Merfolks or other decks with many creatures. Some guys are thinking - why dont you play Engineered Plague instead of Damnation?
It's because in my testing phase are Plagues too slow!!
Elves + Merfolk = Lords/Druids +1 +1
Goblins = Krosan Grip

Do you really need 15 maindecked removal?

Definitly yes!
Gatekeeper = Creature Advantage
Vindicate = can hit everything
Swords = epic removal
Edict = Progenitus/Emrakul killer ( like Gatekeeper )

I play 15 because:
I wanna discard the opponents hands. And the creatures are coming out will be destroyed. So i can play my creatues easily ( except of counter ) and my opponents can smoke a cigarette :)

I would play Ghastly Demise instead of Diabolic Edict

Ghastly Demise costs 1 mana and targets a creature.
Diabolic Edict costs 2 mana and there is no target except the opponent has 1 creature.

Sure, nice advantages with ghastly demise, but the disadvantage is that you cant kill a black creature.
And you cant kill a creature with it in your first turn. ( no graveyard )

Maybe Go for the Throat can help for it?

K1w1

[Leto]

Ghastly Demise costs 1 mana and targets a creature.
Diabolic Edict costs 2 mana and there is no target except the opponent has 1 creature.

Huge Difference against Gobbos and Creaturebased Acceleration (ManaElves and Noble Hierarch), to slow em down. In my games this is important, cause my deck aims for the mid- to lategame. You are playing dark Ritual so this may not be a big issue for you.

Sacc or Target depends much on our local Meta. If you have a ton of Sneakshow and Thresh, Edicts are better, against the other Aggro-Decks and Tribals, targeted Removal is better.

Sure, nice advantages with ghastly demise, but the disadvantage is that you cant kill a black creature.
And you cant kill a creature with it in your first turn. ( no graveyard )

You can kill the usual One-Drops by fetching first (something I do most of the time anyway)

Maybe Go for the Throat can help for it?

Metacall, as said above

[Tim the Enchanter]

I'm strongly considering playing my list from Charlotte at the SCG Invitational.

I'm going to swap out The Karakas for a Volrath's Stronghold. Karakas rarely ever matters and being able to bring back key pieces of hate or Bob/Avenger seems really good.

I still want a single SDT and I had cut a Vial for one, but with all the blue junk running around I think 4 Vials is the right answer. I'm not sure what to cut to put one in. I know I said I wouldn't ever get rid of a Revoker, but I may eat my words and go to three for a Top.

I think a second Null Rod in the board is probably a good idea considering the number of MUD decks making T16.

A single Savannah plus Choke in board may not be a terrible thing either, I'll have to ponder on it though. It would certainly help the Merfolk match to have a Choke and Ghostly Prison on the board. I don't like that they can counter my STPs for free though. I tried Go for the Throat a while back when I wasn't playing Vial and hated it, it might be the right move though, or at least a split, if Merfolk continues to go up in numbers.

[Rizso]

I'm strongly considering playing my list from Charlotte at the SCG Invitational.

I'm going to swap out The Karakas for a Volrath's Stronghold. Karakas rarely ever matters and being able to bring back key pieces of hate or Bob/Avenger seems really good.

I still want a single SDT and I had cut a Vial for one, but with all the blue junk running around I think 4 Vials is the right answer. I'm not sure what to cut to put one in. I know I said I wouldn't ever get rid of a Revoker, but I may eat my words and go to three for a Top.

I think a second Null Rod in the board is probably a good idea considering the number of MUD decks making T16.

A single Savannah plus Choke in board may not be a terrible thing either, I'll have to ponder on it though. It would certainly help the Merfolk match to have a Choke and Ghostly Prison on the board. I don't like that they can counter my STPs for free though. I tried Go for the Throat a while back when I wasn't playing Vial and hated it, it might be the right move though, or at least a split, if Merfolk continues to go up in numbers.

I wouldnt cut a creature. If i remember your list, your list had 3 vindicate and a Oblivion ring in the main. I would cut 1 of the Vindicates for a top if its even needed.

In the vial version with Mother of Runes im thinking of going up to 4 Stoneforge and adding a Batterskull in the main and maybe 1 or 2 extra in the board.

Also if Landstill gets more populare sword of war and peace for the board. Geting an active sowap or aka black vise and ivory tower. Should give them very little time to recover when they are running as many as 15 counters.

[Einherjer]

Idk how you play but the last time i played it was like: marshflat, fetch, scrubland, dark ritual, dark confi, ghastly demise to his mum and go...
OFc its not always like this but you can just run 6-8 fetches to actually have something in your graveyard soon - try it - it works wonder - good thing for me - in my meta im kinda the only one playing black^^ just a dnt with confi there but hell kick out black so its..great :P

what i was wondering - are you guys playing mother of runes and vial? I dont run vials but moms...



EDIT: Ok guys i need your support at my list - first of all Ill post my List
4 Wastelands
4 Scrublands
4 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Swamp
1 Ebene

4 Mother of Runes
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk

2 Senseis Divining Top
4 Ghastly Demise
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Dark Ritual
4 Vindicate
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

2 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

Ok, I like this list pretty much but I wanna change something - but I dont know how to do it.
1) Id like to play 4 Gatekeepers but I dont find a spot where i could put them... which spots would you guys advise to cut?
2) Are 2 Stoneforge Mystics enough? Wouldnt 3 be better? or 4?
Things i considered cutting:
1)Mother of Runes: I thought it would be good but she is so nice at soo many matchups.... cant bring it over me...
2) Senseis Divining Top: Can i risk it playing without this Top? Wouldnt Confi be too hard then?

Ty for you ideas :)
Greetings

[MoonDark]

Been observing this thread for a while,

I'm not an expert on this deck, but this is my current list:

Lands:
4 Marsh Flats
6 Swamp
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta

Artifacts:
4 Æther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Creature base:
2 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Squadron Hawk

Spells
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sideboard
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Perish
1 extirpate


Some explanations:

Aether Vial: I really enjoy this card, I know it's not an awesome late-game top deck, but it's not that bad either, it can totally transform those Tidehollow Scullers into a better disruptive card ( has been great so far ). It's also quite good to be able to dodge countermagic and opens my mana to disrupt my oponent early in the game, which I consider critical.

Vampire nighthawk: Ok, this guy should be batterskull, period. I feel that this deck does need a beater, an endstep batterskull seems really good, I'm not sure if I need two, but I would test 1x and 2x.

Hymn: Mixed feelings here, I feel I still need more testing, I've thought about going 4 Kozilek 4 Thoughtseize 2 Dures.

Hawk: It has been quite good, this card blocks Vendilion Clique, which is being run a lot ( at least in MTGO which is my meta ). It can also be equiped for the win. I agree that it's not a beater, that can suck from time to time, but more often, I've managed to turn games to my favor with this card.

I'm open to suggestions, critique, etc. I still need to test something in the lines of -4 Hymn +2 Kozilek +2 Beaters, ( more aggressive), but I don't really feel we have an abusive beater yet. I hope batterskull changes that in our favor.

[Rizso]

Idk how you play but the last time i played it was like: marshflat, fetch, scrubland, dark ritual, dark confi, ghastly demise to his mum and go...
OFc its not always like this but you can just run 6-8 fetches to actually have something in your graveyard soon - try it - it works wonder - good thing for me - in my meta im kinda the only one playing black^^ just a dnt with confi there but hell kick out black so its..great :P

what i was wondering - are you guys playing mother of runes and vial? I dont run vials but moms...



EDIT: Ok guys i need your support at my list - first of all Ill post my List
4 Wastelands
4 Scrublands
4 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Swamp
1 Ebene

4 Mother of Runes
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk

2 Senseis Divining Top
4 Ghastly Demise
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Dark Ritual
4 Vindicate
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

2 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

Ok, I like this list pretty much but I wanna change something - but I dont know how to do it.
1) Id like to play 4 Gatekeepers but I dont find a spot where i could put them... which spots would you guys advise to cut?
2) Are 2 Stoneforge Mystics enough? Wouldnt 3 be better? or 4?
Things i considered cutting:
1)Mother of Runes: I thought it would be good but she is so nice at soo many matchups.... cant bring it over me...
2) Senseis Divining Top: Can i risk it playing without this Top? Wouldnt Confi be too hard then?

Ty for you ideas :)
Greetings

I feel that list with stoneforge needs Sword of Fire and Ice. IMO its alot stronger then SOLAS, its as strong as jitte against some matchups and in some even better then Jitte, for myself i like geting a sword of fire and ice active when i dont have a BOB active.

Looking over your Deck fast, Confidant is gonna give you less then 1 damage average per turn. You arent in that much need for the tops. Your Condidants are quite safe on them self.

Quite currious how your deck is gonna look like after board against a creatureless deck like combo. Mean you have 8 1CC creature removal, 4 vindicates, 2 Gatekeep, wich all are not that great against combo. Are you gonna have 8+ cards to bring in for the removal against such decks?

[Einherjer]

its just dredgecombo mostly in my meta so my sideboard has 8 gravehate 4 combohate and 3 cards i change from tournament to tournament^^

and how do you like the mother?
I think youre right - ill change 2 Tops with 2 Gatekeeper
Sorry I have proxed SoFaI and i dont like it thaaaaat much - i prefer having SoLaS but thanks anyways....
And hows it with Stoneforges? 2 really enough?

Thanks for your Answers :)