[Deck] Non-LED Based Dredge/Ichorid Combo

[Mojeh]

By the way, are we allowed to change the order of the cards in Graveyard?

[Sims]

By the way, are we allowed to change the order of the cards in Graveyard?

No. Only in formats where graveyard order does not matter. Since cards that care about graveyard order exist in Legacy, we are not allowed to alter graveyard order.

[Mojeh]

No. Only in formats where graveyard order does not matter. Since cards that care about graveyard order exist in Legacy, we are not allowed to alter graveyard order.

Thx Bro.

[KevinTrudeau]

What's the general consensus on Elesh Norn as a sideboard Return target? I was thinking about buying one and testing her out in place of Ancestor's Chosen in my LGS's weekly Legacy tourney today, since she seems not only good against classic beatdown archetypes like Zoo and Goblins, but Merfolk and the mirror as well.

Current list for reference:

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Tarnished Citadel
15 land

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
1 Darkblast
13 dredgers

4 Tireless Tribe
4 Putrid Imp
3 Careful Study
11 discard outlets

4 Breakthrough
4 Bridge from Below
4 Narcomoeba
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Ichorid
2 Dread Return
21 other

4 Ancient Grudge
4 Chain of Vapor
2 Darkblast
1 Dread Return
1 Terastodon
1 Flame-kin Zealot
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
1 Ancestor's Chosen (Elesh Norn if I can acquire one)
15 sideboard

If Mental Misstep becomes as popular as Brainstorm in the format, would it be too ridiculous of an idea to just cut Careful Study altogether and replace them with Darkblasts, with the intent of DDDing almost every game one against an unknown opponent?

[Litorers]

If Mental Misstep becomes as popular as Brainstorm in the format, would it be too ridiculous of an idea to just cut Careful Study altogether and replace them with Darkblasts, with the intent of DDDing almost every game one against an unknown opponent?

In the other thread, people were discussing just running firestorms in the main if your meta becomes infested with MM. So, no, not ridiculous, although darkblast hasn't received as much discussion.

[MoonDark]

Hey guys, I'm thinking about playing Dredge again, I've been trying to find the list proposed by HokusSchmokus but can't seem to find it. Could anyone re-post it ?

[1maarten1]

Hey guys, I'm thinking about playing Dredge again, I've been trying to find the list proposed by HokusSchmokus but can't seem to find it. Could anyone re-post it ?

better check the normal Ichorid thread, its much more used!

[David-]

Hey guys, I'm thinking about playing Dredge again, I've been trying to find the list proposed by HokusSchmokus but can't seem to find it. Could anyone re-post it ?

http://www.trader-online.de/turniere...10-12-T15.html

[HokusSchmokus]

Hey guys, I'm thinking about playing Dredge again, I've been trying to find the list proposed by HokusSchmokus but can't seem to find it. Could anyone re-post it ?

The updated list :
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Studies
4 Narcomoeba
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
1 Darkblast
2 Dread Return
3 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Tarnished Citadel


SB: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sadistic hypnotist
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria or Flame-kin Zealot
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Nature's Claim
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Darkblast
1 Realm Razer

[Feenix]

I've been looking at a possible sideboard slot for the m12 vengeful pharaoh. Does anybody think this would be worth it over something like Terastadon? I thought it had some potential because it does not need to be dread returned and seems to be useful against something like dreadnaught or any aggroy deck. The problems I see though is that the creature still has to do the damage to you, it gets returned to the top of the deck (a benefit and a plus but I cant determine if the -1 dredge card is worth it), and it seems more of protection or stall in a clearly fast deck.

[MRmtg]

ok guys i need your help..i've never played dredge before but i need a deck for a big tournament next week and i need to test it before i go...i have bloodghasts but it seems like bloodghast isnt as good as straight up ichorid...so i've been lurking on these forums and this is what i've come up with for the tournament im going to..its going to be a very developed metagame a lot of tier one decks and a lot of mental missteps going around...should i DDD every game one?
4 golgari grave troll
4 stinkweed imp
2 golgari thug
1 darkblast
4 tireless tribe
4 putrid imp
4 careful study
4 breakthrough
4 ichorid
4 narcomoeba
4 bridge from below
4 cabal therapy
2 dread return
4 city of brass
4 gemstone mine
4 cephalid colliseum
3 tarnished citadel

sideboard
4 leyline of sanctity
4 natures claim
3 ancient grudge
1 terrastadon
1 elesh norn
1 realm razer
1 dread return

also how do you get your ichorids off if you DDD your game one...is that a bad thing to do even with the number of mental missteps going around?

[MRmtg]

The updated list :
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Studies
4 Narcomoeba
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
1 Darkblast
2 Dread Return
3 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Tarnished Citadel


SB: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sadistic hypnotist
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria or Flame-kin Zealot
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Nature's Claim
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Darkblast
1 Realm Razer

can you please explain your sideboard choices and what you bring them in against...im trying to learn this deck and its frustrating....also how do you play around the hate? or i guess any tips on playing are appreciated...thnx your list seems to be the most consistent and least flashy so im going to play it this saturday

[HokusSchmokus]

can you please explain your sideboard choices and what you bring them in against...im trying to learn this deck and its frustrating....also how do you play around the hate? or i guess any tips on playing are appreciated...thnx your list seems to be the most consistent and least flashy so im going to play it this saturday

Do you own Firestorms? If so, don't use this list, the updated list is a bit different.
Also you really might want to use the normal Ichorid Thread as it is much more frequented.
Personally I don't play as much Ichorid anymore.
But if I were to play it today the list would be:

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
3 Tarnished Citadel
1 Dread Return
3 Ichorid
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Putrid Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Thug
2 Darkblast
3 Tireless Tribe
3 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
4 Bridge from Below
4 Narcamoeba
3 Firestorm

SB:
3 Winds of Change
1 Breakthrough
1 Dread Return
1 Elesh Norn, Great Cenobite
4 Nature's Claim
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Tireless Tribe
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sideboard is hugely debateble of course , still I would advice to run at least the Winds of Change, Nature's Claim and Elesh Norn. Some ppl I know play 2 Elesh Norn, no other Target, some play Angel of Despair.I think most of the time the Angel wil be the best choice tbh.

[MRmtg]

Do you own Firestorms? If so, don't use this list, the updated list is a bit different.
Also you really might want to use the normal Ichorid Thread as it is much more frequented.
Personally I don't play as much Ichorid anymore.
But if I were to play it today the list would be:

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
3 Tarnished Citadel
1 Dread Return
3 Ichorid
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Putrid Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Thug
2 Darkblast
3 Tireless Tribe
3 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
4 Bridge from Below
4 Narcamoeba
3 Firestorm

SB:
3 Winds of Change
1 Breakthrough
1 Dread Return
1 Elesh Norn, Great Cenobite
4 Nature's Claim
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Tireless Tribe
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sideboard is hugely debateble of course , still I would advice to run at least the Winds of Change, Nature's Claim and Elesh Norn. Some ppl I know play 2 Elesh Norn, no other Target, some play Angel of Despair.I think most of the time the Angel wil be the best choice tbh.

thnx for the list and the advice....i didnt realize there was another dredge thread, i found this thread off of google but heres my new list im bringing to a tournament saturday
i wanted the maindeck as reliable as possible and the sb hopefully is pretty stable too

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Bridge from Below
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
2 Dread Return
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Tarnished Citadel
sideboard
4 natures claim
4 firestorm
1 elesh norn
1 iona
1 dread return
3 winds of change
1 terrastadon

what do you think? i still need to learn the ins and outs of the deck..especially mulliganing and sideboarding. but so far i usually go of turn 2-4 game one and game 2 i can get a dread return target by turn 3 usually

[HokusSchmokus]

Put Firestorm MD. Really.

[Final Fortune]

I agree, Firestorm has been an MVP in LED Dredge for me, favorable match ups vs. Zoo and Goblins become guaranteed match ups and odd ball decks like Elves fold to it while being immune to Mental Misstep. I think it makes a lot more sense to MD Firestorm and SB Tireless Tribe fwiw because they're more or less equal in their discard abilities game 1, while Firestorm is more effective vs. aggro and aggro-control and Tireless Tribe is more useful vs. Tormod's Crypt etc.

[FullMetal824]

So I just joined up, but I'd like to add my current decklist into the mix here

Dredge (60)

Creatures (25)
Golgari Grave-Troll x4
Stinkweed Imp x4
Golgari Thug x1
Putrid Imp x4
Ichorid x3
Narcomoeba x4
Phantasmagorian x1
Iona, Shield of Emeria x1
Woodfall Primus x1
River Kelpie x1
Flame-kin Zealot x1

Spells (18)
Cabal Therapy x4
Breakthrough x4
Careful Study x3
Dread Return x3
Entomb x4

Enchantment (4)
Bridge from Below x4

Land (13)
City of Brass x4
Gemstone Mine x4
Cephalid Coliseum x4
Dakmoor Salvage x1

Sideboard:
Ancestor's Chosen x1
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite x1
Phyrexian Metamorph x1
Nature's Claim x4
Ray of Revelation x1
Ancient Grudge x1
Dark Blast x1
Chain of Vapor x2
Pithing Needle x3

So a few weeks ago, me and a friend were looking at my dredge deck, that used to frequently 4-0 my local (difference being -4 entomb, -1 Phantasmagorian -1 dakmoor Salvage, +1 Undiscovered Paradise, +1 Ichorid, + 1 Golgari Thug, +1 Careful study, +2 Tireless tribe), until the advent of Delver and ANT variants. He brought up a good point, in that a very powerful spell for LED-less could be Entomb. We playtested it against a slew of different decks that are popular in our meta, and its amazing what kind of difference Entomb was.

With fear that someone has possibly posted this before (in this case i'll either contradict or reiterate), Entomb is a godsend for this deck! It's a tutor that doesn't put you off a draw, it gives you just about whatever you need to win, and it's instant! The variety of utility that this one spell provides is insanely good. If you need a discard outlet, grab yourself a Phantasmagorian, and dredge forever. If you have a breakthrough/careful study, grab yourself a troll, and get the party rolling. And it grabs your dread return targets in very unlucky situations, or the dread return vice versa. It effectively acts +4 Dreadgers or +4 Putrid imps in the same deck, which provides invaluable consistency for a deck that can punt very easily.

I will post a tourney report sometime very soon (once my job allows me to play my local tourney that is )

Creative comments and questions are very welcome!

[Anusien]

Firestorm is a fine card, but I wouldn't replace Imp or Tribe with it.