[Deck] Reanimator

[Sturtzilla]

@ Clark Kant

I would love to test it out with one small modification... I would cut a Mental Misstep (or Daze) to go down to 11 permission spells, and play a 11/11/11/11 configuration. And not just because that sounds so neat.

I have been really impressed at how good Animate Dead has been for me. I actually have been considering adding another (this would bring me to 3 in the main and 11 reanimation spells) to improve the chance of drawing it. On the permission package, I am only running 3 Daze and this has been working great. I hated (and still do) getting double Daze hands, especially if there was no Force of Will to be found. It can hurt tempo and mid to late game is nearly useless; whereas both FoW and Mental Misstep can still hard counter relevant spells. I think I will stick with 3 Daze, 4 FoW, and 4 MM.

I think running less than 11 reanimates is a mistake for the following reasons. Many (most) players seem to counter the second part of the combo, the actual reanimate effect, rather than the discard outlet. They are not threatened by a creature going into the yard, since they don't know if you can bring it out yet, but the second they see that you can, they FoW the Reanimate. Having spares of the second part of the combo is helpful.

This has been my experience as well. Players that know the deck will save counter magic for the real game winning spell, which is the deck's namesake, the reanimation spell. I think going +1 reanimate effect for my build is the right thing for now. Again that would bring me to 11 reanimate effects.

It's not a bad play to animate/reanimate your opponents Tarmogoyf or Confidant or Nighthawk or some other creature in a pinch. You can do that if you have spares. I've won games thanks to Dazing my opponents Confidant, then Reanimating it over to my side.

I totally agree. I like stealing Goyfs and KotR, but I am not sure if I would go for a Confidant. That seems pretty ballsy man.

Creatures do get killed by things other than Swords effects. If you have a spare reanimate effect, you're set.

I like MM here because it helps to keep StP and PtE from occurring.


@ Garobidou

I apologize for this long post. I agree with Clark Kant (although I am a firm supporter of MM over Daze for a 4 of), I think an 11/11/11/11 build could be pretty good. I will probably make a mod or two to my list and start testing this out. Thanks for the logic on the land and the creatures you use. I have been a bit under impressed with Inky as of late and a consistent turn 2-3 Jin seems better than an Iona almost all of the time. I guess they could both go to the board. I have been tending to go to Sphinx much of the time as it stands to seal the game. I think I might try the following creatures:

3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon

1 Flex Slot (JGCA or maybe Elesh Norn)

[Clark Kant]

Iona completely hoses random monocolored decks. There is literally nothing that a monocolored deck can do against Iona. I think it warrants atleast one slot for that reason alone (perhaps in your flex slot).

I'm still hoping that Garobidou posts his list, so I can test out the viability of the 16 land configuration myself. It sounds very risky going that low with the manabase in a meta filled with Wasteland.

[Garobidou]

Here is my latest list :

MD :
4 Jin Gitaxias, Core Augur
2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
3 Hapless Researcher
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Sclading Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Island
1 Swamp

SB :
2 Null Rod
1 Dispel
1 Misdirection
3 Show and tell
2 Thoughtseize
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Terastodon
1 Blazing Archon

I agree about Iona's wrecking monocolor decks. However it's far less efficient if they're running Vial.

About SBing, usually I remove the 2 Animate Dead + 3 Hapless Researcher and the 3 Show and Tell + 2 Thoughtseize come in.
The large SB creatures number has 2 reasons :
- Be able to have the best creatures in G2/G3
- Be consistent with the more controllish road yo take by running 3 Show and Tell (Jin is quite a poor SnT target, except against control)

[Clark Kant]

The monocolored decks that Iona destroys that happen to run vial also happen to be the same decks that don't run either StP or Thoughtseize. Your Mental Missteps are best used to stop their vial. Iona is as such still awesome in that scenario. I think I would always play one Iona to entomb for against burn and a whole slew of annoying monocolored decks.

Thanks Grabidou. If you had to cut one copy of one card, either Daze or Mental Misstep, which would you rather cut?

Strutzilla, if not Iona, do you see any value to Terastodon dealing with opponents Ensnaring Bridges, Jaces and other annoying permanents as well as turning your excess lands into elephants?

[theBloody]

I'm playing reanimator too. What you think about this new card? Will it hurt us much in the way of (almost) uncounterable counter?

Flusterstorm U
Instant - Rare
Counter target instant or sorcery spell unless it's controller pays 1.
Storm

[Sturtzilla]

@ Garobidou

I agree about Iona's wrecking monocolor decks. However it's far less efficient if they're running Vial.

I think nearly everyone would agree. The minor problem is that as you have listed many monocolor builds run vial and can keep playing. The major problem in my mind would be that there are numerous multicolor builds that are competitive now with multiple means to remove a reanimated Iona. So you spent 2 (or more) cards and maybe 9 life to bring her into play just to get axed.

Quick example, playing against Zoo, you are forced to get an Iona (I know poor decision first off). There is no clear cut call. Do you say white for protection from StP and Path, red for not getting burned out or Iona killed, or green to prevent further Goyf and KotR beats? I think that both the white and red routes offer more net benefit, but this would all depend on what is in your hand and therefore what you can counter. I just don't think she really shines as much as she used to.

About SBing, usually I remove the 2 Animate Dead + 3 Hapless Researcher and the 3 Show and Tell + 2 Thoughtseize come in.

I have been running 3 Show and Tell in my board for quite some time and my results/opinion on whether or not is good to go to it game 2-3 is a bit uncertain. Sometimes it is exactly what the deck requires and allows you to bypass the siding in of graveyard hate (which we all expect). Yet other times it clogs up fast hands that would have blown out the opposition anyways. I do like the idea of going to to both Thoughtseize and SnT for added protection. I may have to try this idea a bit.

The large SB creatures number has 2 reasons :
- Be able to have the best creatures in G2/G3
- Be consistent with the more controllish road you take by running 3 Show and Tell (Jin is quite a poor SnT target, except against control)

I have to agree here. Some amount of the board I would say 3-5 slots depending on build should be devoted to creatures that allow you the best advantages in games 2-3. These slots should also be somewhat tailored to your meta. For example, before Elesh Norn, I ran a Triskelion (I know it sounds bad; hold on for a second) in my board to deal with Peacekeepers.

I have more thoughts to add in here but will edit the post in a bit.

[Clark Kant]

Anyone is welcome to answer my previous question. If you had to cut one copy of one card, either Daze or Mental Misstep, which would you rather cut?

Zoo was always a deck that Iona sucked/did little vs. Most other decks there is an easy color choice. I think it's too good in some matchups not to play as a one of.

As for Inkwell, it owns control and most aggro control decks.

[dameus]

If you had to cut one copy of one card, either Daze or Mental Misstep, which would you rather cut?

I'd keep Mental Misstep and cut Daze any day. It's not even close!

[Sturtzilla]

@ Clark Kant

If you had to cut one copy of one card, either Daze or Mental Misstep, which would you rather cut?

Anyone is welcome to answer my previous question. If you had to cut one copy of one card, either Daze or Mental Misstep, which would you rather cut?

I believe you already know my personal feelings on this issue. I believe that currently Mental Misstep has a slight edge over Daze. Both Mental Misstep and Daze allow you to counter early game spells. Both can be really devastating to your opponent's early game tempo. Mental Misstep does not cause you to lose tempo, while Daze does (if played for the alternate cost). I think that while Mental Misstep is slightly more narrow in what it can target, it counters many of the dangerous spells we will see in the early game (Duress, Thoughtseize, Inquisition, Aether Vial, and other Mental Missteps). Let's face it we really want to have a fatty by turn 2 or 3, which means our opponents are playing mostly 1-2 (we are on the play) or 1-3 (we are on the draw) converted mana cost spells. Mental Misstep also has costs that are easier to pay but normally and alternate. Also a hand with 2 Mental Missteps is not necessarily bad depending what you are playing against. A hand with 2 Dazes is by no means ideal. So as you can guess I will be playing 4 Mental Misstep and 3 Daze.

Strutzilla, if not Iona, do you see any value to Terastodon dealing with opponents Ensnaring Bridges, Jaces and other annoying permanents as well as turning your excess lands into elephants?

First and foremost you spelled my name wrong. That's no biggie tho... I will let you slide this time ; ). I do like Terastodon. However since I am on the Jin bandwagon he is my go to creature. I think Terastodon can be really good; however, he doesn't make my main deck for a few reasons.

First I am playing 11 counter spells and my deck has been really consistent as of late. Therefore, I don't let permanents like Ensnaring Bridge or Jace (turn 4 plays) resolve (I do have him in the board to deal to improve how many outs I have in these situations though). I will move him in in games 2-3 to help out if needed.

The second reason is that using him to nuke your own lands is a very "all in" kind of move. Sure it can get you a quick 18 points of potential damage on the board, but 3/3s aren't really all that scary if they don't happen turn 2 or at latest 3. Plus this plan keeps you off land and commits you to this kamikaze plan. You then need to swing for the fences and hope you can out race your opponent. Overall I don't like this strategy, but in some match ups it can be really devastating to your opponent.

[Sturtzilla]

I'm playing reanimator too. What you think about this new card? Will it hurt us much in the way of (almost) uncounterable counter?

Flusterstorm U
Instant - Rare
Counter target instant or sorcery spell unless it's controller pays 1.
Storm

I apologize for getting post happy here but I am living in a hotel until I can get my summer housing at the National Lab at which I am working this summer. That doesn't leave me much to do. This is relevant because the internet here is a bit shady... so I have been double posting and having a rough time getting the forum to load at times.

Anyway, I think that this spell has some major promise. It could be very bad for us, but on the flip side the answer for it is itself. If you play it after your opponent you get a storm of their X+1. This means you could for one mana effectively counter all of the various counter spells, providing they have little or no open mana. I think it will be interesting to see if/how this spell will be used. We could main deck it for graveyard hate and opposing counter spells, worse case scenario it is still a Spell Pierce. It would have the benefit of improving or storm combo match ups a lot too.

Ultimately, I think that skilled players will figure out how to make this deck survive. We have gotten past free counter spells like Daze, Force of Will, and Mental Misstep. I think that while this spell isn't free, it has the potential to affect the game like one. That however may not necessarily be a bad thing though.

[Garobidou]

@ Clark Kant : If I were to run 11 counterspells, I would cut 1 Daze. I can understand the fact you want a 11/11/11/11 setup, I think these are minor modifications up to personal preference

@ Flusterstorm : this card is great against us. However I don't think it will see MD play as it is too narrow.
But the card is also great for us. It fits perfectly a more controlish gameplan where we prepare for a counter-war. Please note that it is Mental Misstep's proof. I'll play it as a 2-of in my SB instead of Dispel.

[Mr.Dieth]

flutterstorm is WAY worse then spell pierce is.

Flutterstorm doesn't catch a lot of hate against us. It doesn't catch: relic, wheel, crypt,
It also doesn't catch: jace, ensnaring bridge, sdt, chalice, trinisphere, ...

So I would take spell pierce over flutterstorm any day.

Spell pierce is often in a counterwar good to .. So I do not see the added bennefit of flutterstorm..

Versatility is key !

[Sturtzilla]

flutterstorm is WAY worse then spell pierce is.

About halfway through my post I forgot that it can only counter instants and soceries. So yes it would be a bit more narrow than Spell Pierce in general. On the other hand you should have copies on Daze, Mental Misstep, and Force of Will to take care of those other pesky spells that hurt us. Lastly I am in agreement with Garobidou. This card can give us a dramatic edge over other decks that are just trying to counter our reanimation route (or sideboard SnT). I think that it can also give us some better tech for storm decks. However I haven't really been having much trouble with ANT or TES lately. A turn 2-3 Jin with a counter spell or two can really foul them up, if you know where to point it. On a side note when and in what will Flutterstorm be released? I am just curious.

[Sims]

Released in the Commander precons later this month.

[Tacosnape]

RE Flusterstorm: Against a Reanimator deck that packs Force, Daze, and Mental Misstep, two "Counter unless you pay 1" spells is WAY better than one "Counter unless you pay 2" spell.

This spell's existence is absolutely terrible for Reanimator. You're better off running Pierce to catch hate. Some decks, however, will board this card and just love it against you.

Solution's pretty easy, though. Run more Animate Dead, which blanks a lot of weird counters in the format, ranging from Cursecatcher to Mental Misstep to now Flusterstorm. The card probably won't show up outside of a few sideboards, and it probably isn't worth much adaptation beyond that.

[theBloody]

@ Tacosnape: next solutions are:
1) run Flusterstorm also
2) run discards

[Mr.Dieth]

Would you really waste sideboard slots just to counteract 1 card, a card that is probably not going to see much play, because for al it's uses, often there is a better alternative to find.

+ if you are really scared of counters, why don't you just splash for green and xantid swarm. Now that I think of it, Isn't that a good idea ? Splashing green for xantid swarm ? I think It would Really Really be good in de the merfolk, control matchup. Even against deck like bant. No they are going to waste their stp on your swarms instead on your jin / sphinx.

No that I think of it, I will probably go and test it out ^^, ( unless someone can now just point out to me, what I am overlooking, why it isn't such a good idea )

[alderon666]

Would you really waste sideboard slots just to counteract 1 card, a card that is probably not going to see much play, because for al it's uses, often there is a better alternative to find.

+ if you are really scared of counters, why don't you just splash for green and xantid swarm. Now that I think of it, Isn't that a good idea ? Splashing green for xantid swarm ? I think It would Really Really be good in de the merfolk, control matchup. Even against deck like bant. No they are going to waste their stp on your swarms instead on your jin / sphinx.

No that I think of it, I will probably go and test it out ^^, ( unless someone can now just point out to me, what I am overlooking, why it isn't such a good idea )

I like how attacking with Xantid and then reanimating Jin garantees you to at least draw 7, as they can't play their removal until the end of the turn.

[alderon666]

Would you really waste sideboard slots just to counteract 1 card, a card that is probably not going to see much play, because for al it's uses, often there is a better alternative to find.

+ if you are really scared of counters, why don't you just splash for green and xantid swarm. Now that I think of it, Isn't that a good idea ? Splashing green for xantid swarm ? I think It would Really Really be good in de the merfolk, control matchup. Even against deck like bant. No they are going to waste their stp on your swarms instead on your jin / sphinx.

No that I think of it, I will probably go and test it out ^^, ( unless someone can now just point out to me, what I am overlooking, why it isn't such a good idea )

I like how attacking with Xantid and then reanimating Jin garantees you to at least draw 7, as they can't play their removal until the end of the turn.

[practical joke]

I'd keep Mental Misstep and cut Daze any day. It's not even close!

I'm completely on the opposite side of that opinion.

I hardly see a reason to run mental misstep, how great it may seem.

However I still run a landlight manabase with lotus petal, cuz the one thing reanimater lacks nowadays is aggression.

Zoo is a very winnable match, but still hard to win. I always won it on iona, but back in the days empyrial archangel really did it's job as well....
when being able to exhume, zoo is easymode...iona white goes all the way, zoo can race, but they cannot race that much without killing themselves, except when steppe lynx zoo. At that point, and one of the very few decks in legacy atm, I want mm above daze.