[Deck] Painter-Stone

[TheProfessor]

@sloshthedark -- Oh! right you are absolutely correct there. I'll list some down now and you guys tell me what type of meta it should be prepared for :D That way first time people using this deck can have a general idea on what to bring along as SB options i guess?

Jace is the worst card in landstill? Really? Always thought that card was the main kill condition?

PS. What is the difference between Czech and Russian? Please excuse my ignorance I'm not trying to be racist or anything. I am just curious.. and that usually comes out wrong :p

@PanderAlexander -- OOHH thank you for that. Learned something today. Did you still play MD misdirections?

@Raviv -- I agree with sloshthedark. Personally I feel that this deck does so well in tournaments is because of the "surprise factor". In many cases when I play people always assumed i was playing Sneakshow or Hivemind in the first 2-3 turns when you have just an island and a tomb in play. However I am not saying that the deck is weak in anyway. It is a powerful deck that is consistent, efficient, and flexible (or i would not write its primer lol). As a testament to its flexibility look at Di's deck, same idea but different "body".

@Di -- I really really want to call your deck the "Painted Die" lol Transmuting for 1-6 costing items :D Sorry just something in the back of my head i wanted to say :p

@Namelessone-- Hi nameless!! Saw your name alot in the Quinn boards. Welcome man :D Yeah we can discuss MUD type hybrids. I'm sure everyone here can suggest stuff. But Di would have the most experience in that particular field :D His list (personally I have not yet tried it) based on the theoretical interactions of each card with one another seems like the best build so far. (as he has extensively used it in tourneys and tweaked it according to his meta)


Hey Guys please provide me your opinions on various SB possible cards (+ optimal # of pcs) given the meta decks below:
*I took these decks in reference to the last few big tourneys. Of course there will be decks we cannot prepare for but these below are some of the decks that have done significantly well in the past few months.
*You may also include "tips" on how to combat that particular deck.

Example:

Merfolk:
Red/Pyro Blasts -- Great against everything blue
Llwan Cephalid Empress -- Once this one drops there is nothing fish can do to you.


Affinity:

Team America:

Dredge:

Junk:

Counter Top
Var1: Stifle Naught
Var2: BUG
Var3: Thopters
Var4: U/W/R

Land Still
Var1: U/W (Forge Still)
Var2: BUG

NO Bant
Var1: Bant only

Deadguy Ale:

Supreme Blue/Blue Skies (MonoBlue control):

Sneak/Show:

Hive Mind:

Eldrazi Post:

Ad Nauseum:

Belcher:

BANT/ANT:


Care to suggest guys? :D

[Whippoorwill]

Hey Guys please provide me your opinions on various SB possible cards (+ optimal # of pcs) given the meta decks below:

Based on what others have listed and some personal ideas:

Merfolk:
Red/Pyro Blasts -- Great against everything blue
Llawan Cephalid Empress -- Once this one drops there is nothing fish can do to you.
Ensnaring Bridge - Same as Llawan. Echoing Truth is generally their only out. Can also be Welded in if countered.

Affinity:
Energy Flux -- Game over for them. Hurts us as well, but we can still survive and go off with it on board.

Team America:
Blood Moon -- Most lists aren't running any basics.
Pithing Needle -- Main way to stop Pernicious Deed
Spellskite -- Helps to screw up their removal and protect your combo pieces.
Misdirection/Divert -- Redirect their Hymns/Thoughtseizes/Counters/Removal to benefit you.

Dredge:
Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus/Nihil Spellbomb -- Usual graveyard hard.

Junk:
Spellskite -- Helps to screw up their removal and protect your combo pieces.

Sneak/Show:
Ensnaring Bridge

Ad Nauseum:
Ethersworn Canonist

Belcher:
Ethersworn Canonist

[kingtk3]

...
Belcher:
Ethersworn Canonist

I'd say that against Goblin CharBelcher spellskite can redirect the activation on itself, or Am I wrong?
If it works it should be a complement to Canonist, which is good against the Empty the warren plan.

[Sloshthedark]

@Professor - Jace certainly is not, but the BoM version has more Counterspells instead of Spellsnares, so the Landstill player as to have at least 2 free counterspells when he taps out as lot of times he is dead to the combo next turn so the Jace ends up in FoW most time =D

geographical, cultural and historical; its OK, its the same like Philippines and Thailand may appear the same to me but may have certain differences which I'm not aware of, living on the other side of the planet, lets say Czechs don't like them



Affinity:
REB
Ensnaring Bridge

-counter or destroy something - than weld
-be faster, don't let Plating hit the board
-watch out for Galvanic blast


Team America
Show and tell - Emrakul, Inkwell Leviathan
Divert
Misdirection
Bloodmoon
Pithing Needle (Deeds, EE)

-name black
-watch out for Extirpate, Deeds and EE


Dredge:
REB
Tormod's Crypt
Nihil Spellbomb

-counter outlets, good matchup anyway
-watch out for leyline of sanctity


Junk
Show and tell - Emrakul
Divert
Misdirection
Bloodmoon
Spellskite
Pithing Needle (Deeds, EE)


Counter Top
REB
not enough experience with variants, generally Welder is essential

Land Still
Var1: U/W (Forge Still)
Var2: BUG
Pithing Needle (deeds)
REB
Bloodmoon

NO Bant
Var1: Bant only
both - pithing Needle (pridemage)
Spellskite


Deadguy Ale:
Show and tell - Emrakul
REB
Divert
Misdirection


Supreme Blue/Blue Skies (MonoBlue control):
REB
Pithing Needle (jace)

Sneak/Show:
Pithing Needle
Ensnaring Bridge
Phyrexian Metamorph
Emrakul

-my tech is to establish Ensnaring Bridge and kill them with Leviathan =), otherwise multi-welder action may make it


Hive Mind:
never played against one

Eldrazi Post:
never played against one

Ad Nauseum:
REB
Tormod's Crypt

- depending on hand, counter cantrips or develop position, but definitely you are the Control in the game, Intuition and Top is excellent


Belcher:
counter key spells - mana generators
Pithing Needle - Charbelcher


Merfolk:
REB
Ensnaring Bridge

- watch out for Dismember and always save a blast for Energy flux, otherwise its easy
- do not name blue unless you 100% benefit from it


Enchantress
REB
Pithing Needle (sterling grove)

be fast, blasts are essential

[Patrunkenphat7]

@Sloshthedark: I just wanted to note that naming blue against Merfolk can actually be very important post-sideboard. A lot of them are running Pithing Needles and Revokers, and it would unfortunate to die to those cards with Red Blasts in hand. In this matchup in it better to be safe than sorry in most stages of the game.

[ivanpei]

I play this board and it's working well for me so far:

2 Pyro (Already have 3 REB MD)
3 Spellskite (Need this vs Zoo/Burn/Heavy Removal)
3 Llawan (Superb with Painter, an alternate wincon that dodges Emrakul/Needle)
3 Pithing Needle (As pander said, you need this card)
1 Tormod's Crypt (Blasts and Needles handle dredge well enough, I'm playing light Gravehate only)
3 Ensnaring Bridge- This card is another awesome anti Zoo card. Buys you a ton of time against them if you can keep it on the table. Also useful against all sorts of Aggro/Creature Strategies. There are some things like Affinity/dredge, that you hard a hard time racing so you need these.

2 Bridges could be Misdirection if you see alot of discard. The Professor suggested it to me and it seems very effective against Hymm to tourach/Thoughtseize/Opposing counterspells. Sorry dude, I can't even get my own transmutes. I only have 1 so far. That card is deceptively hard to find!

[TheProfessor]

Thanks for the info guys. Please keep them coming. All your inputs WILL be taken into account and put together :D I'll summarize and come up with a more comprehensive "SB" option section in the Primer to help people pick their SB choices. Using the newest U/R Painter variant by Wilson Hunter (Patrunkenphat7), and probably make a "mini" version of SB list (pocket handy? lol)

@sloshthedark -- Oh sorry i just re-read your post you had UBG landstill I interpreted it as U/W. Missed that info when i gleaned over your post. But yes, you are absolutely correct on the jace thing. Totally understand the Czech and Russian differentiation now thank you!! (learned something new today again). I will also apologize for my generalization. By the way I was chatting with a Czech guy on e-bay and he told me that their legacy staples are much cheaper? any truth to this? By the way have you tested your deck with Transmute artifact?

@Patrunkenphat7-- Dude just saw your "premium" article on SCG nice work man :D We can discuss the SB choices here? :D Also I apologize for the late replies, I have been quite busy these past few days and have not really had time to look at my mails @source. Apologies man :(

@Ivanpei -- I actually got myself some bridges while I was looking around the GP (good think we talked about a little painter tech while i met you or else i would have totally forgotten about getting them) :D I also found a Transmute artifact but the guy was TOTALLY ripping me off... the card looked like it came out of a crapper and he was still selling it to me at 32dollars (singapore). I wanted to grab a pencil and stab the fool with it.... ~.~

By the way guys Ivanpei's alterations are beautiful, i've seen it myself and I can honestly tell you that they are truly pieces you can appreciate. Oh question man. You write articles? and do you do comissions (ART)? (lol)

Maybe a little off topic but does anybody do commander here? :D (sorta liking the concept and might branch myself into that haha) Sadly painter is banned in commander :*(

[Sloshthedark]

@Patrunkenphat7 - haven't met those yet just dismember and all the other stuff is blue anyway

@TheProfessor - sometimes cheaper sometimes not, it depends on the exchange ratio and such, maybe a bit in general ,you still can get most of the older cards cheaper on the ebay;
I have only 1 TA, prox tested 1 and 2 and found the card disadvantage crippling and CC too demanding, late game its all-star for sure but however I really love the card my decklist is more combo-speed oriented and it simply does not fit

[deadlock]

For those of you who enjoy Needle in the main and want to go without Trinket Mage: Isnt it always a possibility to Intuition up 2 Welder and the Needle or 1 Needle, 1 Welder and 1 Academy ruins if you run it? This is slower and more vulnerable than Trinket Mage, but Inution is stronger in general. Just a thought.

Also I like how people adapt to running Spellkite, I play it currently in by Blue MUD board.

[(nameless one)]

@ Di

How does you list look like post MMisstep?

[keys]

@ Di

How does you list look like post MMisstep?

This is the second time you've posted a question that you could easily answer by reading a few pages back. This thread isn't very long.

[(nameless one)]

This is the second time you've posted a question that you could easily answer by reading a few pages back. This thread isn't very long.

Yup, I definitely missed it. Found it now though.

[ivanpei]

Thanks man. :) I'm weird, as in I like very different things In Magic. The competitive part of me brews evil, ultra competitive decklists. I write articles when I feel like I have some new tech or have some thoughts on the meta. I got into altering because of Jason chan honestly. He came to gp kl and doodled on my foil jaces. I thought they were awesome so I started with a 5 dollar set of acryllics for fun. They turned out well so I bought myself some Better paints and thinner brushes. Took off from there. :)

As for edh, it's an awesome format. I advise building 2 decks, one multiplayer casual and one for competitive. If you want to win in edh 1vs1 check out my zur deck on the source's edh forum. Oh and I ended up buying the mishra's workshop for my sharuum edh deck instead of the jap foil brainstorm. Haha, casual format my ass.


Please save this kind of content for PM's please. It's completely off topic. Thanks. -Di

[Zefa]

Hive Mind is starting to get very popular not just around my area but in major legacy tournaments (scg 5ks etc) as well. Whats our best way to combat this deck? A bunch of REBs?

[lorddotm]

Hive Mind is starting to get very popular not just around my area but in major legacy tournaments (scg 5ks etc) as well. Whats our best way to combat this deck? A bunch of REBs?

SCG 5ks? Please explain where. Also they are trying to resolve a blue spell. Counter it with your infinite number of blasts or Force.

[Zefa]

Since gp providence and ellyet's 2nd place finish its been showing up more often at the 5ks. It got a 4th place finish in the 5k in indie and in the coverage today in denver I'm pretty sure there's at least 1 hive mind in the top 8 and another one in the top 16 if not more.

First game seems just unwinnable since they run 3 emrakuls and the next 2 games should be better for us but I guess I run a similar list to Di's where I cut more REBs in favor of spellskites so I don't have that red hate as available to me.

[ivanpei]

Painter top 16ed with heavy md protection, 0 LEDs. Very similar to my build that I posted a few pages back. Like 1 card different (-1 land, + 1 bridge). I wonder if these people read the source. Anyway I still believe heavy protection, zero LEDs are the way to go.

As for beating hive mind, blasts and the llawan plan works best for me. If you have painter in play you can llawan their emrakul back into their hand. IMO the best way to beat this mu is to board in llawans and go beat down. You have 4 tops so you should be favored in the long game.

[Wanderlust]

I'm the Painted Stone player who Top 16ed today at SCG Denver. @ivanpei, The Source is awesome, I read it all the time!

Regarding LED - Going for the sheer speed it provides didn't seem like the right call for the meta. I only missed the LEDs against Dredge round 5 - otherwise, I was much happier with the heavier protection.

My list today was:

1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Grindstone
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Painter's Servant
4 Goblin Welder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Intuition
4 Mental Misstep
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Mox Opal
3 Great Furnace
3 Seat of the Synod
1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast

My matches were:

Round 1: 2-0 against Chalice/Crucible/Jace/Tezz Control (Josh Bingaman)
Round 2: 2-1 against Zoo (Jakson Gardner)
Round 3: 0-2 against UW Control (Nick Spagnolo)
Round 4: 2-0 against Affinity (Gregory Gale)
Round 5: 2-0 against MUC (Dustin Gault)
Round 6: 0-2 against Dredge (Jason Bulkowski)
Round 7: 2-1 against NO RUG (Feature match)

There was a lot of Dredge there today and many of the lists had Darksteel Colossus or Guile postboard, specifically for us. Going forward, I would be careful milling a dredge player game 2 without Tormod's Crypt at the ready to remove the shuffler (otherwise you are giving them a turn with their whole library in their graveyard.... yikes.) I was disappointed with my loss to Dredge - I thought it was a favorable matchup. Game one I kept a slow but protection-heavy hand (I didn't know what he was playing) and got rolled the turn before I would have gone off. Game two he dropped Leyline of Sanctity turn 0, nullifying both Tormod's Crypt and Grindstone, and despite digging forever with Welder/Top engine, I couldn't find a Blast. I actually punted this game: he would have been in serious danger of naturally decking himself if I had Weldered out a Painter's Servant to kill 2 of his Bridge from Belows instead of trying to dig for Blasts that turn. I died with him at 3 cards in his library.

The basic mountain main actually mattered a couple times today, as I faced Back to Basics out of MUC and Crucible/Waste lock out of UW Control. The second basic makes it possible to still have three mana active (mountain, island, Mox Opal) under those locks.

Maindeck Ensnaring Bridge didn't matter much today, but I still stand behind it. There are a lot of decks that are cold to that card game 1 (esp. Merfolk) and I love that it adds versatility to Intuition w/ active Welder.

With tighter play, I think every match was in reach today. Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast were MVPs all day. I'm convinced Force of Will is the worst card in the main.

[TheProfessor]

@ Wanderlust -- Congratulations Wanderlust! You do us grinder boys proud :D lol In a format filled with Hivemind, i wouldnt blame your choice of a MD ensnaring. Although I was a tad surprised at the loss to Dredge, but i guess the Meta is evolving to handle our tricks (i'll read up on the dredge forums later to check up on whats cookin in their kitchen lol).

As for your match with Nick.. well i think he used to be a Painter player too :P soooo i'm pretty sure he did extensive match testing against painter.

Thanks so much for your additions to our forum man :D We'll count on you to keep giving up details :D You think FOW count be reduced? :D

Does this mean we should place 3 diff types of GY hate? Relic, Nihil, Crypt (one each)?

@Ivanpei -- Thank you for the advice. I'll check your EDH deck man :D uh.. pm me the link (sorry DI). Come on man :D Everybody whose tuning their decks HAS to read the source lol Or they'll miss out on wonderful inputs from you and everybody else in this forum :D

[PanderAlexander]

Congrats Wanderlust, nice work, but as surprised as you about your loss to Dredge.

I'm convinced Force of Will is the worst card in the main.

I agree, but still a necessary evil since we're playing a combo deck and need to force it through.