Thoughts on this: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...r_Lapping.html ?
Its a mana-less dredge list! Im pretty sure its worse then the normal dredge lists, but I the short ammount of testing I did with it it was very fun! :P
Indeed it is worse, but chancellor of the forge as a DR target seems interesting.Originally Posted by 1maarten1
I feel like he should have made room for LED in that list, would make him able to mulligan and still discard dredgers.
Yeah, LED + Darkblast would have been a nice choice :P
But those Chancellors are pretty fun, haha.
The list is probably inferior to current LED or Non-LED lists, but it's funny never the less. I've been playing Chancellor-Hypergenesis for funsies the past few weeks and it's amazing how good they reall can be. Forge in this deck not only gives you a lot of other hastey dudes when he gets DR'd, but in an opening hand he gives you the not insignificant 1/1 goblin token that can flash back turn 1 therapies or serve as an extra critter if forced into an early DR.
I might have to do some testing with the list, but I'd probably end up trying to make LED find it's way into the list.
Team Albany: What's Legacy?
You cannot know the sweetness of Victory, without first dwelling in the agony of Defeat.
I agree very much on the LED part. After like 2 hours of testing I came to the following conclusions:
- LED would be great
- The deck is incredibly fun! Against merfolk I Dread returned 3 times in 1 turn, giving me 14 hasty goblins, a 6/6 flying lifelink, and a Iona :P
- The deck is pretty great against tormod's, but then again DDD is.
- I dislike the fact that the deck rolls over and dies to relic of progenitus on turn 1, and I dont think we have alot of outs to that. A risk you would have to take.
What would come out for LED's? =)
Probably those awful Gigapedes. Dunno what else to cut.
Tbh the gigapedes were freakin' amazin during my testing :P! I think I'll try LED's in the board instead of those Chalices!
I like that list but i actually think it should have basking rootwalla. If you are all in on the DDD, then you want a mix of things to can do with your endstep besides discarding a dredger. Once you dredge up another dredger, you might be better served by an extra creature.
They are not amazing, but I think they're necessary. You can only have so many dredgers.
Jason's 9th place list from that event seems really good.
But in this case, you'd probably have a Bridge/DR/Therapy or something you want to discart, right?
My attempts at manaless ichorid have benefited from Phantasmagorian. I think it is a mistake not to play Gitaxian Probe as well (despite the fact that it can be countered).
peace,
4eak
This Phantasmagorian seems really better than Gigapede, it can make this deck playable. The problem is: the deck still loses to a Leyline of the Void.
Uh, 90% of Dredge decks lose to Leyline of the Void. It's pretty hard to fight it (we only have Chain of Vapor/Nature's Claim/Wispmare for it) without mulligan aggresively, which can really slow us down (unless your opening 7 is: City of Brass, Nature's Claim, LED, Deep Analysis, Golgari Grave-Troll, Bridge from Below, Bridge from Below lol).
And Leyline of the Void isn't played so heavily because it demands 4 slots in the sideboard to be used effectively (I'd say 5% of the general meta uses LotV?). The most common non-mirror decks would be: Pox and Rb Goblins... that aren't really played in this new Mental Misstep enviroment.
This no-land Dredge is a very nice tech. Hope is better than Hate in cases of LotV.
There are interesting ideas in the manaless Dredge deck, but the deck gets owned by so many things. Leyline of the Void? The deck can't even answer Relic of Progenitus, which is one of the most commonly played hate cards. The deck is also slower than other versions of Dredge, which negates one of the advantages of playing Dredge in the first place. It's also much less flexible. You have to keep your opening seven every time. And if you don't have dredgers, what then? Cross your fingers and draw? I like that people are experimenting, but land serves an important function in any deck and opens up many more options. Until you can answer some number of hate cards without land (or equivalent mana-producing sources), it would be prudent to run some number of lands.
Alright after some time of testing I came to the following conclusions:
- Phantasmagorian is better then gigapede.
- Although fun, I do not think the Chancellor's are that good in this deck. I am going to try to replace them with all the free draw spells I can find: Probe, Mishra's bauble and Urza's bauble.
- As DR targets I am more likely to run something like River Kelpie, which can help us speed up really quick into a FKZ or smthn.
- For the sideboard: I definately want to run 4 unmask in there. I will test out 4 Mental Misstep even, just to have some sort of out to t1 relic.
The list im testing:
Draw:
4 Street Wraith
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mishra's bauble
2 Urza's bauble
Dredgers:
4 GGT
4 Stinkweed imp
4 Golgari thug
4 Shambling shell
3 Phantasmagorian
Free Creatures:
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
3 Nether Shadow
Graveyard Spells:
4 Bridge from below
4 Cabal therapy
4 Dread return
Dread Return Targets:
2 River Kelpie
1 FKZ
1 Angel of Despair
some stuff Im tinkering on: 4 DR might be a little too much because I cut down on 'free creatures' testing will show that I guess.
Sideboard I will test:
4 unmask
4 mental misstep
4 leyline of the void (Looking for a replacement for this one)
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Iona
1 Elesh norn
Thoughts?
That deck just looks so much fun :D. Is there anyway we could abuse Kobolds?
Uhmm...
How do you actually want to use Kobolds in Dredge?
And what's all that enthusiasm for a manaless Build about? I know that there was one such deck at SCG but it didn't place well after all.
I don't like that idea at all. And while you test it, I'll stay with my mana build and watch out for manaless builds in Top8s. I doubt that I'll see any.
I never said it was better then a mana build. Its not. Its just alot of fun to play around with!
The real advantage of the Manaless list isn't the power to play around counters?
I think that's why the original author didn't put any non CT/DR spells.
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