ebay/Paypal/shipping fees won't let you get away with it just saying. The card has a virtually unlimited supply being a crap rare (compared to Splinter Twin). Unless half the Legacy meta plays it (Hive Mind), only then it may cap out at $5. I don't see it happening anytime soon. If it does, Show and Tell will be banned.If you got them for $0.50 and then do cap out at $5, and you bought 50 ($25 investment) you now just gained $225 in value
(I got my foil set for $3.25 shipping included btw)
In other news:
Near Mint English The Abyss has been selling at 95+ previously 75+. Played ones still at 65+. It's reserved, definitely playable and splashable 3. 4 Jace + 2 The Abyss = total domination.
edit: It will only take one deck to top 8 in SCG for it to increase another $25. It may settle at $150 (Mint Condition).
Originally Posted by GoblinSettler
The first post of this thread bemoaned the fact that Legacy prices were swiftly rising and it cried, "Why is this happening?" Well, speculation is one of the reasons why. Speculation introduces artificial demand into the market. If you bought 50 cards you don't need -- and I'm not just referring to DTC -- you've permanently given up your right to complain about the expense of any Magic card, because speculation influences prices (even though Hive Mind, for numerous reasons mentioned above, is unlikely to provide much of profit). If anyone in this thread is TRULY concerned about rising Legacy prices, then don't buy stuff you don't need just hoping to score. If only a few people were speculating, the effect wouldn't be felt, but LOTS of people are speculating. Realize that your actions have consequences.
It only works with old cards really. Ones that are actually limited supply in the first place. Hive mind can still be bought for around 30 cents each at several stores and I doubt it will change much with the thousands that are out there.
Now if you're doing that with a limited print older card, that's just crappy. It does affect the price quite a bit doing that, though you tend to defeat it somewhat when selling as you re-flood the market.
Agree on not investing in Hive Minds. Look at what fuels that type of deck and you will see that Show and Tell, Intuition, and friends are the culprits.
Delver enthusiast and avid practitioner of blind flipsmanship.
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Price of Dark Confidant currently ranging from $30-$40.
Fixed that for you.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Flusterstorm is arguably better than Pierce.
Not as long as Jace, artifacts, and enchantments still see play. Flusterstorm will be SB material like Mindbreak Trap.
Pierce isn't really played main anymore.
I can agree with this statement when regarding Spiral Tide. I don't agree with the statement for the general case however, as keys has stated, it does nothing to stop non-instant, non-creature spells.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
I personally do not speculate and always only get a playset of what i need. At most i might pick up 8 copies of something i know for sure so i have a set to trade out for value, merely stating that people who are speculating on them aren't really doing anything else. Who else wishes they picked up more tarmogoyfs back when they were $3? If someone wants to buy 100 hive minds, that's their business. To be more realistic from my last post if they did somehow manage to sell them ALL for value without flooding the market power to them. I know some financial experts are already buying out commander singles in numbers like 25-50 a card. Geez. When they all decide to pull the trigger it feels like it'll backfire anyway, which is why 8 will always be my cap on cards. A playset to play, and one to trade or use for things like EDH/Cubes/whatever.
Not to mention a bulk rare from a little over a year ago isn't as bad as the dudes hoarding 100s of force of wills in a fireproof safe over the past decade, if you're worried about speculation damaging the legacy market. And yes there are a few people who do have playsets and playsets of dual lands/force of wills just sitting in a binder. In comparison hoarding hive minds almost seems silly.
It doesn't change people from doing it. Everyone would like to make a buck. Are you saying had you had the chance to pick up an extra playset of candelabras when they were still $40, you would not have done it?
Why did Confidant spike?
-Matt
Not entirely sure, but it's been stable at $15 for a while. When the Team America/BUG Control decks had an uprising it went up to $20.
Recently the card the was valued at $25 and didn't hit $30 until a couple days ago.
SCG has it listed out of stock at $30, while other retailers (TCGPlayer, ChannelFireball, etc.) are selling it for $40.
On a sidenote I'm surprised Pernicious Deed hasn't spiked yet. IHMO it's been sitting at $15 for too long.
Dark Confidant spiked because 'trusted' MtG financial wizards went around saying the card was going to hit 30-40$ soon. Those wizards have so much clout in the community, that their fans and the sheeple that follow everything they have to say, went up and bought unnecessary amounts of that card.
It's self-fulling prophecy speculation.
Realistically, the card is still about 15-16$ each on eBay. You try to trade with any of those sheeple who listed to those financial gurus and they'll quote online stores like StarCityGames repeatedly for that 30-40$ price range. Then they'll go back to eBay/Apathy House pricing when they try to low-ball you on the value of your cards.
Not surprised that this is the current state of magic prices we're living in. This happens everytime I try to trade for dual lands too. Talk about how much of a "premium" they're at and quoting of prices from online stores, yet eBay/ApathyHouse has them at the same relative price as last year. Then those same ppl quote eBay/ApathyHouse on my stuff to lowball me.
For shame.
I remember SCG was selling Confidants at the GP at 25, but I understand that since if you need it to play, you'll pay. It was $15 for a long time, but again, I think this is just people being afraid it'll go up, so they buy, so it goes up. Ridiculous.
-Matt
I HATE value traders, truely with a vengeance. They go around buying low and try to sell at just slightly below lgs/scg prices. Making a profit is ok, thats not an issue, but the guys ONLY buy when it's a steal. I hate it when they go through my folder and ask prices for like 20 cards and say no to my 20% under scg prices. They will only buy at 35% to 40% under scg.
Dammit, I might as well sell to scg, douchebags! The worse thing is that because they slightly undercut the local game store, they are hurting their income. Considering the lgs has overhead they need to cover and actually provides a place to play for the community, its very bad for players to buy from value traders.
I get very annoyed when I play against a value trader with 10 force of wills he lowballed cheap during the old days, but plays with PROXY Jace TMS (I see this alot because Jace is so liquid, they can never find someone desperate enough to sell it that cheap). This annoys me to hell as if you wanna put priority on trading and lowballing/hoarding, go open a store. /end rant.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. This logic could equally be used to defend looting. Everyone loves high prices when they're selling the cards and taking their profits. Everyone loathes high prices when they really need a card for their deck and that card has quadrupled in price because of speculation. We're all part of the same circle, and one person's gain can be another person's loss.
If anyone is truly concerned about rising Legacy prices, the answer is to not wildly inflate the demand. This applies to dual lands, Force of Will, all the stuff on the reserved list, and basically everything people complain about here. If you're a player, you play with the card you bought. If you're speculator, you sit on the card until you decide to sell it. If you're a collector, you stick the card in a binder and admire it, and either sell it eventually or keep it forever.
How many Candelabras would a player use? Maybe 4. How many Candelabras would a speculator grab? Maybe 400. How many Candelabras would a collector purchase? Maybe more than 400, if he or she could afford them. Most of us play at least one of these roles, and some of us play all three, but we need to consider that each role has an impact (which becomes even greater when the supply of a particular card is very limited). So, to answer your question:
* If I am a player truly concerned about the rising price of Legacy cards, I should not buy the Candelabras unless I want them for a deck. I am buying them primarily to play with them. If I have them, another player cannot have them, unless I am also lending them out.
* If I am being a speculator, I should buy as many Candelabras as I can find at the cheapest price I can find them -- the more profit for me, the better. If I have them, players cannot have them. (And I'm probably not lending them out.)
* If I am a collector, I should fulfill my need to collect, regardless of its impact on the game. I'm focused on my collection, not the game. I should buy as many Candelabras as I can.
We all need to think about this, because we are all affected by it.
Last edited by ESG; 06-16-2011 at 12:28 AM. Reason: accidental double post
It wasn't me doing any of this! I swear! I buy cards to build decks with and lend out to fellow players!
The problem is also the sticky prices... "What goes up must come down" clearly does not apply to cards to the same degree. Each time a card spikes, it rarely drops back down...
@ESG: Well said! The problem is.. even if we all follow the 'buy-4-to-play' ethic, there are always going to be those 'but-everyone-else-is-doing-it' people in the world. We can't do much just have to live with it...(clarification: living with it and living BY it are very different things)
Dude! Come back to Sydney, we need people like you! You can't get anything for a good price for anything here! Even the locals quote SCG price when selling! I post on the local forum to buy at near SCG prices, and I cannot get anything (could be the stock numbers, but still). [/my rant].
Regarding Confidant:
The lowest completed price on one in the last week was an auction for 3 ending @ $60; the majority of them are $24+ each, with several breaking $30. So, no, they aren't $15-16 anymore.
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