All B/R update speculation.

[DragoFireheart]

HARHARHAR seriously i laughed my ass out! I was expecting it from the beginning at least for Jace and way too many didn't even see it coming and kept buying this crap like there was no tomorrow! I am so pleased that they got what they deserved for driving its price sky high. Serves them right i guess. For how long would wizards continue their mistake of printing this card in standard... hehehehe half its price in just a day ZOMG!

"He who laughs last, laughs best".

[dontbiteitholmes]

HARHARHAR seriously i laughed my ass out! I was expecting it from the beginning at least for Jace and way too many didn't even see it coming and kept buying this crap like there was no tomorrow! I am so pleased that they got what they deserved for driving its price sky high. Serves them right i guess. For how long would wizards continue their mistake of printing this card in standard... hehehehe half its price in just a day ZOMG!

LOL, spoken like a true noob. Hating on people for owning cards you don't, give me a break. I had no plans to sell Jaces anyways since I play more Legacy than Standard, but this pretty much ended me for Standard at least until next big rotation at next block. So I'll just play the waiting game and by the time I'm looking to liquidate he'll be back to $70+ easily as long as they don't reprint. At least now I can get those SFM's rock bottom.

[DragoFireheart]

At least now I can get those SFM's rock bottom.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardd...product=171669

50% off at SCG already. I bet one could get them for $5 a piece if they looked hard enough.

[dontbiteitholmes]

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardd...product=171669

50% off at SCG already. I bet one could get them for $5 a piece if they looked hard enough.

Yeah they are around $6-7 on Ebay. Ban isn't official till the 1st then everyone will sell then everyone will realize there are thousands and thousands of unopened event decks with 2 each in them. I'm expecting bottom out at under 20 a playset.

[Koby]

LOL, spoken like a true noob. Hating on people for owning cards you don't, give me a break. I had no plans to sell Jaces anyways since I play more Legacy than Standard, but this pretty much ended me for Standard at least until next big rotation at next block. So I'll just play the waiting game and by the time I'm looking to liquidate he'll be back to $70+ easily as long as they don't reprint. At least now I can get those SFM's rock bottom.

Precisely - There's always Extended, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage. Stocking up on Jace is definitely a wise investment, especially now that he's in oversupply relative to the demand from Standard. He will reach back to epic values in no time.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Precisely - There's always Extended, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage. Stocking up on Jace is definitely a wise investment, especially now that he's in oversupply relative to the demand from Standard. He will reach back to epic values in no time.

Yeah Jace is a little under $50 now, he went from under 50 back up to high 50's now back to about 50 solid. I think if you want Jace now is the time. This is about the lowest he's probably ever going to get, once Extended season rolls around it's CawBlade time again and he's back to at least $60.

[dahcmai]

Yeah, I'll be picking up my foils finally. I want a set just for BUG if anything. Plus I want to find a nice Russian one for EDH, though he's a little crappy for EDH.


Quick question though. Has anyone actually played with Land Tax in a modern deck? I played it back when it was allowed in 1.5, but not since it got banned. I was wondering if it's really as time consuming with Tops as Wizards seems to think it would be. I can see how it would make a turn take forever, but it still seems like a joke to me to have that card on the list.

[Iron Buddha]

Is there any chance that they unban Mind Twist? I'm just asking, because it's one of my most favourite cards ever.

[dahcmai]

Most people agree there's a pretty good chance of it since it's fairly underpowered in Legacy anymore. Great card, but a little slow by today's standards.


As long as they don't let Hermit Druid off, I'm happy. Screw that card, I don't like having to add cards to decks just for stupid bad combos that can go off turn 2 easily.

[(nameless one)]

Quick question though. Has anyone actually played with Land Tax in a modern deck? I played it back when it was allowed in 1.5, but not since it got banned. I was wondering if it's really as time consuming with Tops as Wizards seems to think it would be. I can see how it would make a turn take forever, but it still seems like a joke to me to have that card on the list.

Land Tax only works with decks that are time consuming (Enchantress and other W-splashed control decks). It might work with a weenie-based deck. I myself have a semi-tuned "Legacy" Parfait deck. Playing the deck is like playing Lands. It's really slow. But not because of Land Tax but what you could do with the deck. I mean any control deck can be slow from conventional Landstill to Enchantress right?

Also, setting up a new Scroll Rack stack every turn could take a while on the hands of a Saito-like player.

Is there any chance that they unban Mind Twist? I'm just asking, because it's one of my favourite cards ever.

Maybe in the near future when Wizards fuck something up.

When Flash got banned, they unbanned Replenish and Mind Over Matter.

Mystical Tutor - Grim Monolith and Illusionary Mask

Survival of the Fittest - Time Spiral

Time will tell when these will get unbanned.

[hyperchord24]

I was going to post this in the "show and tell" thread, but I don't really want to get caught up in that discussion. I have no real experience with hivemind (with or against), but I know how powerful show and tell is. I'm not going to whine, but I'd like to comment that the last time people did complain about a deck, the main card in that deck got banned. I am sure that show and tell will be banned.

[Shawon]

I'm pretty sure that Vengevine-Survival got banned because it kept winning and Scars of Mirrodin made it even more broken with the Necrotic Ooze combo, not because people complained hard enough.

I highly doubt the same thing will happen to Show and Tell. I think people are simply just going to adapt to it, like they have already.

[Gheizen64]

I was going to post this in the "show and tell" thread, but I don't really want to get caught up in that discussion. I have no real experience with hivemind (with or against), but I know how powerful show and tell is. I'm not going to whine, but I'd like to comment that the last time people did complain about a deck, the main card in that deck got banned. I am sure that show and tell will be banned.

Survine was an absurd deck, it didn't get banned because of whine, but because of numbers.

[sroncor1]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks Show and Tell is so broken. Sure it is strong but it does not win the game when cast and can be easily answered. Removing it would only really slow hive mind decks down by a turn. There are so many ways to do degenerate things in legacy. Sure the card isn't symmetrical, but neither is LED. The difference between a two mana spell one card combo and a three mana spell two card combo is huge. SotF was incredibly strong and yet I think Wizards made he wrong choice in banning the engine. Legacy is getting to a point where it will have it's pillars much like vintage. There they keep the pillars and move around the support cards. The amount of deck design that cards like SotF and Show and Tell allow are amazing. They are much less narrow than a card like LED which is still the single strongest card in legacy.

Seth

[Admiral_Arzar]

The amount of deck design that cards like SotF and Show and Tell allow are amazing. They are much less narrow than a card like LED which is still the single strongest card in legacy.

Seth

I love how people still make veiled allusions to LED being broken even when nobody plays storm combo anymore.

I'm not going to whine, but I'd like to comment that the last time people did complain about a deck, the main card in that deck got banned. I am sure that show and tell will be banned.

I wouldn't say that was the reason Survival was banned, although it was certainly part of it. More like the reason why MYSTICAL TUTOR was banned.

[alderon666]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks Show and Tell is so broken. Sure it is strong but it does not win the game when cast and can be easily answered. Removing it would only really slow hive mind decks down by a turn. There are so many ways to do degenerate things in legacy. Sure the card isn't symmetrical, but neither is LED. The difference between a two mana spell one card combo and a three mana spell two card combo is huge. SotF was incredibly strong and yet I think Wizards made he wrong choice in banning the engine. Legacy is getting to a point where it will have it's pillars much like vintage. There they keep the pillars and move around the support cards. The amount of deck design that cards like SotF and Show and Tell allow are amazing. They are much less narrow than a card like LED which is still the single strongest card in legacy.

Seth

Removing Show and Tell slow the combo down and make it much weaker against counters. Turns out that actually losing the spell when you cast hurts instead of just losing a Show and Tell.

But the main point would be that the deck would have just one angle again. You could side in Angel's Grace and just not lose against a random 15/15 coming out of a class exercise.

[Shawon]

But the main point would be that the deck would have just one angle again. You could side in Angel's Grace and just not lose against a random 15/15 coming out of a class exercise.

You overrate Emrakul. Please tell me how any deck that can fight the Hive Mind strategy can't fight Emrakul. SnT -> Emrakul is not random. It was random in 2010, in GP Columbus. Now, it's vulnerable. Any blue deck facing Hive Mind will focus on Hive Mind and not need to care about Emrakul, because they're not going to be stupid enough to take out their Jaces for more counters.

[sroncor1]

Just bc the current meta is very hostile to combo doesn't make LED any less powerful. When I made my comparison I was talking about the raw power of the card.

I really don't understand why people think that it is terrible having a combo deck with two paths to victory. Do people complain when control decks win with goyf or Jace. There really are a lot of ways to handle the hive mind decks. It just takes time for people to adapt. Banning a card like Show and Tell would be short sighted to say the least. I still miss SotF and I enjoy a format where deck designs are wide open. I vaguely remember people calling for the banning of Lackey some years back. Just bc a card is strong doesn't mean it needs to be banned. And you do realize if the drop an Emrakul you get a chance to untapped and respond. Ask anyone who plays Doomsday list how much it sucks passing the turn after resolving your Doomsday.

Seth

[Hof]

Hive Mind is a fair and fun strategy, but even before that deck showed up Show and Tell was a broken enabler that just about any deck packing 6+ manacost spells must use. Any deck with blue can pack 4 Show and Tell and 3 of the latest, biggest spaghetti monster in the sideboard as a backup plan.

I admit that I find Show and Tell strategies with FoW backup difficult to defend against, and somewhat unfun. I know it can be interpreted as whining, but that's just my opinion. Show and Tell is like the Yawgmoth's Will or Tinker of Vintage some years ago - a three mana sorcery that must be answered.

[Greenpoe]

Playing against TES or ANT is a lot more fun than S&T->you lose. At least with real combo, you can choose your favorite hate and it's an actual battle, because cards you'd be playing anyway have relevance, like needle effects, artifact destruction, Null Rod, lifelink, Moat/Deed (vs. ETW), etc. It doesn't need a ban, just new cards to make the fight manageable. Enlightened Tutor into Sundial helps. Or just unban Mystical Tutor, since Mental Misstep is running around.