i run a list similar to chris' that won the SCG open with (which he also played to a 12th place finish in the indy invitational with + his standard deck) and a sideboard card i have been testing to help deal with thrun and progenitus and emrakul etc. is phyrexian metamorph. kills all the legends we have problems with and can also beocme morphling number two. thoughts?
I actually think it is pretty good. It has a lot of things I like.
+1 I really like how it can help against some deck/creatures like progenitus, emrakul, or thrun like you said ...
But how much phyrexian do you play? do you run only one? or more then one?
if you play only one of it, do you see it enough? or do you run a tutor?
Yea that is the problem. I don't know how many we should run. 3 seems like to many as well as clunky. I also am not really sure what other match up I want him other then show and tell and help fight pro and thrun. I would say that at max we can only run 2, but with out a way to find him when we need him makes him less appealing imo. Thoughts?
i run two. i havent had any problems seeing them because most the time i can stall out with energy field or sit behind a back to basics. ill post my list later no time now.
Hey there!
I was just thinking to something, I'm in the group of person using 1 cunning wish MD and some tools in SB, the only problem I had was sometimes I wanted a firespout but couldn't go and take it cause it's a sorcery ... then came the question, what can do the same, but at instand speed? ... Volcanic fallout of course! now i know it cost RR but I'm running 1 mountain and 1 volcanic island, and if I watch the deck against which I use it, it's most often zoo, elfball or sometimes affinity or dredge, and none of those deck (or in my meta's lists) run wasteland, so with 6 fetches, we're more or less sure to have those 2 reds.
What do you think about putting 1 Volcanic Fallout in the SB in my case? or do you have any other options/solutions that could do the same as firespout but at instant speed?
Llawan already does the trick against Progenitus, and you're a god dammned fool if you don't have this ugly bitch in your sideboard already.
If you run Sower of Temptation, or Jace then those exist as outs to Emrakul, as he only has protection from colored spells, not permanents.
Rest in peace, Grandpa Morphling.
Nemeses Slain:4
who are you speaking to? ^^Originally Posted by TheKingslayer
sure Llawan is a 2 or 3-of in SB it's so sick (i'm btw looking for some in japanese foil ... that's pretty hard to find =/)
for the rest I'm not running sower anymore, I'm playing a 2creature version of the deck, but yeah, jace still works ^^
I am speaking to the blokes discussing phyrexian metamorph in the sideboard.
Unfortunately, I don't currently possess any Llawans, and I went through a great deal of trouble gathering some humble, English-speaking, non-foil ones. However, I'm sure there are likely some foil, Japanese Llawans somewhere in Japan. (I actually saw some on SCG a few weeks ago for pretty cheap, if I remember correctly.)
Rest in peace, Grandpa Morphling.
Nemeses Slain:4
Is anyone well versed in combatting T.E.S.?
I'm not talking about sideboard plans, I'm talking about choosing what to counter...
Obviously I want to counter orim's chant and tutors. Are there any situational counters I should be aware of, or moments to hold back, or mana acceleration that should be countered? I simply have never faced the deck, nor have I piloted it.
Rest in peace, Grandpa Morphling.
Nemeses Slain:4
If they have an LED out and tries to cast Infernal Tutor, Snare it.
If they Chant, Silence, Duress, Thoughtseize or cast Ritual, Misstep it.
Reserve your hard counters for Ad Nauseam.
Given the storm count isn't lethal, don't counter Infernal Tutor, unless your opponent has Hellbent and you don't have any outs to Empty the Warrens.
If they go turn 1 Dark Ritual, I'd definitely counter it, I guess (-> ETW)
Playtest it. Seriously.
It surprises me everytime that people keep on whining about losing to storm combo but never take the time to playtest against it.
I playtest against dredge for christ sake, do you think I like playing against that pile of junk? (hint: I don't)
Pre MM, MUC was a bye for TES. Even with MM it's balanced if you know what you're doing, if you don't, I still win.
Since exams are killing me and I need to study I don't have the time to post extensively, but some tips:
- you DON'T counter every protection spell/ritual/tutor. I have 4 chant, 4 duress, 4 dark ritual, 4 rite of flame, 4 burning wish, 4 infernal tutor. You're going to counter 24 spells, when I play 8 additional cantrips? Good luck with that. If you don't select in what you'll counter, I just smash through eventually.
- burning wish is deadly, a competent player just gets tendrils with it, then just waits till he has enough lands out and starts throwing spells in your counters and just tendrils you for GG.
- don't be an idiot and tap out EOT turn 4 for your fact if you can't stop my response of ritual -> Adn, untap with 20 cards in hand against you outtapped (hint: you die)
- always consider what my out is. Do you have keg/EE for my etw? Is my life total high enough for Adn? How many mana will I have floating after Adn? If 0/1, how many initial mana sources do I still have left in my deck/how many 1cc rituals of the appropriate color? Do you know if I have tendrils in hand, what's your life total, how many cards do I have?
- if I infernal without hellbent, what am I about to get? Do you have a snare for it, or only fow/cs? Is it your only hard counter or do you have more? How many answers do you have for chant when I would go for it?
- Can I iggy loop you (ie can I stick a chant?) How many white sources do I have?
- If I infernal tutor, saccing led, bounce a chrome mox for epic pwnage.
- Do you care if duress resolves? What's the balance between your hard counters/soft counters?
- if you play clique, stuff really becomes interesting, know what to do with it and that card is quite good against combo; if you don't it's just an overcosted 7 turn clock.
- etc etc ofc
Last edited by Diprivan; 06-25-2011 at 08:33 PM.
I would love to playtest against it. I've never lost against it, because I've never encountered it, but someone is running it at our local meta, I just haven't been paired with it. The difficulty is in finding a competent storm player. Dredge- I play dredge and have tested against it extensively. I understand that these decks will bite you in the ass if you don't prepare for them.
Would you find arcane lab a suitable sideboard option, or is it a wasted slot?
Rest in peace, Grandpa Morphling.
Nemeses Slain:4
This. Competent storm players are rare and storm really is an archetype that requires experience to play properly. So even when you find someone inexperienced to test with, you should always consider this when analysing the results.
Arcane lab: INSANE against us, especially now most builds dropped cleanfall/eye of nowhere as a wishable answer to it. The card has one major drawback however: it's really narrow. So if you don't expect to be paired against storm at least once, you shouldn't pack it. (also don't rush into playing your "insert win condition of choice", bounce your lab, you can't counter due to lab. Know when you are able to do this safely)
So I haven been playing my weird version of MUC with Jitte, Spire golem, Ven clique, and Morphling and I finally made room for brainstorm and fetchlands. I also run 3 jace and one in the board and 2 fof. Wow I have to admit that I have been such an idiot for not running brainstorm. I thought that this deck didn't need brainstorm and I have to say that I was dead wrong. This card helps us so much. With brainstorm added to the deck I have had some really good testing results and I am very happy with how the deck is working.
Now I do have some questions for you guys. I run 7 fetchland with 16 islands. Do you guys think I should run 6,7 or 8 fetchlands to help with brainstorm and jace? I am leaning towards 7 but I can easily running 8. Also, which counterspells do you guys think are the most important between MM, Spell snare, Counter Spell, FOW. I used to run 4 of each but I need to cut one and I am unsure of which one to cut. I currently cut one of the spellsnare and moved it to the sb but I am looking for peoples opinions of which counters are needed the most. A lot of my testing buddies keep telling me different views on why I should cut a CS or MM instead, but I want to hear other peoples thoughts so please help me out if you can. thanks
That's my advice:
4 force of will
4 mental misstep
3 counterspell
3 spell snare
... in way enought.
no more than 6 fetches if you run morphling, because mid-late game you draw less lands than having 22/23 basics. Otherwise If you are not running morphling, so increase to 7.
Are you running AV of still FoF ?
I run 7 fetchlands and never had a problem with morphling. I still have plenty of mana, but I do use him in a weird sense since I use jitte to make him win attrition wars and to kill my opponent usually.
I run 4 brainstorm, 3 jace, and 2 fof. No AV as I don't like how bad of a top deck they are and I like how powerful fof is in the late game.
Can you explain your reasons on why you chose that counter suite. Remember that our list are different, but I would still like to hear your reasons. Thanks
- first of all, more than 14 counters is too much to my view. (I personally would run 13)
your muc build doesn't draw a lot. 3 jace and 2 FoF are not a lot for card advantage. If opponents gets something on the board you risk to draw conters.
Decks with more than 14 counters usually draw more cards such as with 4 standstill.
- early counters are more important than mid-late game counters. So I would cut 1 counterspell for sure and 1 snare.
- can you please post you full list ?
I have no MUC list I'm playing right now because I'm playing an UWB very strange control deck. but I test muc one a week.
Last week I was testing something like that :
4 squadron hawk
3 vendilion clique
4 jace, the mindsculptor
4 force of will
2 counterspell
3 spell snare
4 mental misstep
4 swords to plowshares
3 vedalken shackles
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
2 marsh flats
2 tundra
2 plains
10 island
sideboard:
4 stonforge mystic
1 batterskull
1 swords of fire and ice
3 back to basics
2 oblivion ring
3 relic of progenitus
2 surgical extraction
stoneforge pack is for merfolks and goblins ...
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