[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[Kich867]

Has Thoughtseize ever caused an issue with the life-loss for Ad Nauseam? Given how early the deck goes off or tries to, would Inquisition of Kozilek serve the same purpose, or is not being able to hit things like Force of Will too dangerous?

[oRen]

Has Thoughtseize ever caused an issue with the life-loss for Ad Nauseam? Given how early the deck goes off or tries to, would Inquisition of Kozilek serve the same purpose, or is not being able to hit things like Force of Will too dangerous?

obviously it caused trouble for many players but being able to pick teeg/canonist/censor and forces is worth the lifeloss. inquisition is just way worse because you can not pick the forces.

i am testing a 4c ant list atm (comparable to the one picelli posted on page 119) and i am 7-1 in tournament games right now ... i only lost to fat child playing burn 2-1

[lambert101]

@practical jokes
thanks...i like your lists ability to go off at lower life but is removing a sea worth a badlands?

[Chikenbok]

@practical jokes
thanks...i like your lists ability to go off at lower life but is removing a sea worth a badlands?

I'd assume the additional red source is there so after a burning wish, one can resolve a second red spell from the board - grapeshot, empty the warrens, meltdown etc. I'd rather cut a basic for a badlands personally, but I usually just rely on finding a petal if I need additional red mana.

[Kich867]

I'd assume the additional red source is there so after a burning wish, one can resolve a second red spell from the board - grapeshot, empty the warrens, meltdown etc. I'd rather cut a basic for a badlands personally, but I usually just rely on finding a petal if I need additional red mana.

It shouldn't be, from what I understand that would make the deck a TES list, which is not what this deck is.

[Chikenbok]

It shouldn't be, from what I understand that would make the deck a TES list, which is not what this deck is.

Well then I'm unclear as to what the second red source is needed for, I've never had a problem holding a fetchland for a volc until I'm going off.

[Elle]

@chikenbonk

the badlands is needed for Pulverize in the board ("sacrifice 2 mountain").

@practical joke
you list seems really interesting; i'm testing the lorddotm's TNT list with 2 chrome mox becouse too many times i die due to Ad nauseam without revel any lotus petal. I think that i'll try it.

[Elle]

Sry for double post

[practical joke]

I've decided to play -1 island (leaveing 1 island, 1 swamp) for the second sea.

The second island is rarely needed, and it's a better option with those wastelands around.

As said, the second mountain dual is indeed for pulverize, which gives acces to free castable spells, meltdown is also an option.
Chosen for badlands and volcanic is due to the colorfix.

Thoughtseize is always worth paying 2 life for, nowadays it gets misstepped a lot, so when it resolves it's totally worth every information you can get + gets rid of a card.

Yes, you can chose to run inquisition, but that does not get a force, which is mostly the one card you want to hit.

[thefringthing]

Ugh. 1-2-1 with a bye in a local event today, playing TNT.

Round 1: Lost to the worst player in the room playing a bad Affinity list. Game 1 he nut-draws me. Game 2 I Duress away his Plating, Meltdown his board except for a Myr Enforcer. I need to draw a bounce spell and don't.

Round 2: Lost to Deadguy Ale. Game 1 we each keep 1-landers. He Vindicates mine. Game 2 he crushes me with Hymn, Extirpate, and Batterskull.

Round 3: I draw with Countertop.

Round 4: Bye.

List: 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, 3 Preordain, 4 Duress, 3 Thoughtseize, 4 Dark Ritual, 4 Cabal Ritual, 3 Infernal Tutor, 4 Burning Wish, 4 Lion's Eye Diamond, 4 Lotus Petal, 1 Ad Nauseam, 1 Ill-Gotten Gains, 1 Tendrils of Agony, 4 Polluted Delta, 2 Scalding Tarn, 1 Misty Rainforest, 2 Bloodstained Mire, 2 Swamp, 2 Island, 2 Underground Sea, 1 Volcanic Island. Side: 3 Tendrils of Agony, 1 Ill-Gotten Gains, 1 Infernal Tutor, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Meltdown, 1 Gitaxian Probe, 3 Dark Confidant, 2 Echoing Truth, 1 Wipe Away, 1 Hurkyl's Recall.

The wishboard Gitaxian Probe was very good.

[lordofthepit]

Have you guys ever wanted access to a 9th or 10th discard effect against really slow decks like Landstill? Slowly building up your mana base and forcing 8 cards through plus a Tendrils is pretty solid, but sometimes an inopportune Vendilion Clique messes things up, or Jace/Standstill overwhelms your disruption.

I probably need to just play better, since I'm not used to the matchup, but I'm considering running an Extirpate or two to get rid of opposing Missteps/Forces. Usually, the Duress + Extirpate plan is terrible (in general), but against slow control decks, a target will eventually present itself, can often result in card advantage, and more importantly, provide the opening to break through your opponent's defenses.

Edit: against those decks playing 12-16 counters (Force, Misstep, Snare, Counterspell) + other disruption like Clique, do you board out at least a few copies of LED?

[practical joke]

Have you guys ever wanted access to a 9th or 10th discard effect against really slow decks like Landstill? Slowly building up your mana base and forcing 8 cards through plus a Tendrils is pretty solid, but sometimes an inopportune Vendilion Clique messes things up, or Jace/Standstill overwhelms your disruption.

I probably need to just play better, since I'm not used to the matchup, but I'm considering running an Extirpate or two to get rid of opposing Missteps/Forces. Usually, the Duress + Extirpate plan is terrible (in general), but against slow control decks, a target will eventually present itself, can often result in card advantage, and more importantly, provide the opening to break through your opponent's defenses.

Edit: against those decks playing 12-16 counters (Force, Misstep, Snare, Counterspell) + other disruption like Clique, do you board out at least a few copies of LED?

Actually rather not, LED is way to much mana.

Against 12+ counters I go for 10 protection.

boarding in: 4 swarms, 1 trop for, 2 chrome mox, 1 island (or sea) 1 seize, 1 preordain.
leaving 4 duress, 2 seize, 4 swarms for protection.

[AriLax]

If your plan is to cast a Tendrils from your hand, you want to board out ~2 LED.

If your plan is to cast a Tutor or Wish for a Tendrils, LED stays in.

[Yara]

I played this weekend went x-3 at SCG baltimore im new to the deck but some things I noticed I wanted, the discard effeects are getting alot worse I wanted Mental misstep in the deck, so the next time I play it I will only use 4 Thought seize/3 Thought seize and 1 Duress and 3-4 Mistep. also I never knew how complicated this deck is to play but by all rights its amazing.

[lorddotm]

If your plan is to cast a Tendrils from your hand, you want to board out ~2 LED.

So many control lists are running Cliques and Batterskulls, this doesn't seem like a viable strategy anymore.

[Yara]

Clique was one of my biggest issues in Baltimore, she destroys us.

[mort-]

So, what do we do with this little gem:

[Admiral_Arzar]

Nothing. We never have this many cards in graveyard, unless we've already won. It doesn't even synergize with Doomsday as that card exiles your yard.

[Dark Ritual]

Yeah unless you're super worried about dredge that is a SB card at best against dredge...which we really don't need. We also can't really get 20 cards in the GY that easily unless it's a VERY long game.

On the tendrils from hand plan. I concur; clique wrecks that plan hardcore and clique is getting played a lot right now.

On additional protection spells i.e. more than 8. At this point, why not just run dark confidant? He draws you into more cards so you can try to go off more or he draws you into more protection to force the combo through. Also beats for 2 if they are blockerless, reducing the required storm which is really clutch sometimes while sometimes it doesn't matter and you rack up 15 storm or something.

[lordofthepit]

I'm not a storm expert and certainly not that experienced with the matchup, but after some theory crafting, my strategy against Landstill decks going forward (playing TNT) is as follows:

1) If I'm running Dark Confidant, board them in about half the time. It's great when Confidant is unchecked, but realistically, they run Spell Snares and other counterspells, plus many opponents leave in removal anyway. Keeping them guessing makes them risk keeping in dead removal.
2) If I have an extra copy of Ad Nauseam in the sideboard, I board that in.
3) Board in all copies of discard (to go up to 8).
4) I'll probably run 3 SB copies of Tendrils and 1 SB copy of Empty the Warrens. I'm planning to move 2 SB copies of Tendrils and the Empty main, cutting some Preordains, LEDs, and the IGG. This makes us more resilient to Clique. Empty is a great card to short-storm against control. One copy of Tendrils and not Empty is left as a Burning Wish target because getting double red to cast Wish and Empty when necessary can be difficult, especially after cutting LEDs.
5) Bring in the SB Infernal Tutor, possibly cutting a Burning Wish if necessary. You'll rarely want to Wish for Infernal because you can't profitably hellbent yourself to set up a winning Ad Nauseam or Ill-Gotten Gains. But the Infernal Tutor is excellent at grabbing extra Duress effects or Rituals (or even another Tendrils to prevent from getting Cliqued). There aren't that many profitable Burning Wish targets in the matchup, besides a single Tendrils in my case, since you've already boarded in all your discard; Ill-Gotten Gains can occasionally be useful to generate extra storm if you strip away their hand and have plenty of mana, plus have extra copies of Tendrils in the graveyard.
6) The ideal 8-card hand when going off probably contains two copies of Tendrils, a few discard spells, and a boatload of ritual effects. If your opponent counters your discard spells and your rituals (or plays Clique), thereby adding to the storm count, you probably will be able to generate lethal storm with a single Tendrils. If he doesn't counter your rituals, you can probably generate enough mana to play Tendrils twice, which would certainly be lethal.
7) If I'm not running SB Dark Confidant, I will probably try out a few copies of Extirpate, which is highly experimental. It is excellent against slow decks because you and your opponent are slowly building up to the 8-vs-7 battle, and he's likely saving up his countermagic. You can then blow him out by hitting his Mental Misstep/Force of Will, gaining valuable information, removing all copies in his hand, and opening the window for your discard effects to rape his hand.