Just since you guys don't remember it.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Errata-Undone
Anyway, nice to see someone using that card again. I always loved it.
No, our definition seems the same. The matchup just isn't as bad as you think. Combo decks don't always have their turn 2 kill. They can struggle on Mana, miss one of their key spells etc. With 4 Missteps, a Teeg to tutor for and 4 Thorns post board we should be getting to somewhere between 30% and 35% for the whole best of 3 depending on which Combo deck we face.Originally Posted by Bzka
The questions then become, if you only get a 30-35% matchup with sideboarding, is it worth taking up 4-5 slots in the sideboard? Wouldn't those be better spent on other bad matchups that could be made positive?
Anyone ever consider True Believer as a way to combat storm combo? You can play GSZ when they blow their load to try and tendrils you.
GSZ is a sorcery and True Believer is white. You people should first read the cards you are trying to discuss about.
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
My bad, I don't own a copy of GSZ nor have I played against one. I'm gonna crawl back in my hole and keep an eye on this thread while I relearn the cards. 4 years is a long time away.
Most lists use Teeg as a GSZ target against Storm, but Storm has like only 10 players left in the entire world post Misstep.
So, what's your opinion on Rafiq of the Many? I've been glad using him the one time I've played this deck in a tournament. I didn't see him too much in my starting hands and every time I was able to play him, I won the game. Usually the same turn I played him, or the next turn after playing him. Mother of Runes hitting for 18 damage is nothing to sneeze at. The burn player was left wondering what the fuck had just happened.
He sure do puts a bit stress on the manabase, but I'm left wondering why did people ditch him. Also ; Quirion Ranger. I understand Scryb Ranger by all means, he has flying, flash, pro blue.. so much great abilities for one colorless mana. Is Quirion Ranger really worth it, it's much easier to fetch with GSZ but her abilities are greatly inferior to Scryb Ranger's.
I would be more than glad to hear your opinion about the Dredge matchup and how to approach it. Should you just GSZ scavenging ooze asap and what equipment is actually the best against Dredge? Batterskull or Jitte? Let's assume that you have played T1 noble hierarch and for turn 2 you have: 2 lands (savannah and horizon canopy), Stoneforge Mystic and Green Sun's Zenith. What would you play, SFM or Zenith for Ooze?
Kinda hard question, because you have to follow what your opponent is doing and so forth, but I hope you'll understand where I'm going with this question without any additional explaining.
Imo yes. Having an autoloss matchup is problematic because of our DtB status. Also Combo is quite popular and I don't think you get more total matchup improvement when you spend all of your SB slots against matchups that are already equal or positive.
Rafiq is a 4 drop and 4-drops usually win the game if they stick. Elspeth and Parallax Wave also just win very often. It is hard to come to a conclusion on such a topic.
Scryb Ranger has been discussed before. He is extemely good imo. Some people disagree while others up his count to 2 because unlike Quirion Ranger it is a card you want to draw. It is some kind of total package, you get much utility and evasion.
In the Dredge scenario Zenith for the Ooze. It is extremely strong against Dredge. If their draw is beatable Ooze will beat it. The best equipment depends on the situation. Both Batterskull and Jitte are very good. Usually Jitte is better because it can RFG their Bridges by killing your own small guys. But Batterskull gains more life and puts more pressure on them.
Last edited by Tao; 07-14-2011 at 09:46 AM.
From my observation:
Against Dredge it mostly depends on situation:
If dredge player dredge a lot of moeba's and and dredge return but is unable to cast it yet - Gaddock can be good.
If dredge player dredge a lot of ichorids - ooze will be better note advice - don't remove with ooze before he dredge, in upkeep (unless you fight against ichorids only) just wait to draw phase. You can avoid dredge return target or some moeba's on stack.
About equipment - Jitte is best here. Batterskull is just to slow, but u can bounce to kill bridges.
I dunno, about Batterskull being the slower option here, as When you are fighting against dredge, a deck with no removal, you will be cheating this into play. So its cost is the same as Jitte to play, 1W and tap your stoneforge, Then you have to equip jitte for 2 and swing, which is not likely until the next turn because of tapped stoneforge and your already spending 2 mana to play it, to even be able to have the counters on jitte to kill your own stuff. While you can have the germ token for free ready to block immediately and swing next turn, all the while pumping your life total and if you leave three open at anytime you can kill all of thier bridges by bouncing the batterskull and letting the germ die.
Good to know about bouncing Batterskull, never thought about it. Because Batterskull is cearly the faster card. Jitte costs 1W + 1W + 2 to get online, and 2 extra each turn that you want to attack and block with it. Batterskull costs only 1W + 1W.
Unless I can smell the therapy, I try to get Batterskull most of the time, yesterday I played against Dredge twice (well, actually I drew against the 2nd Dredge and then played it out just for fun) and I've removed a fair number of bridges with the skull.
I still prefer to have Jitte as it allows you to prevent Bridge tokens from going out of control, as well as controlling the amount of x/1's Dredge decks pop out. This is important in stopping Dread Return from becoming active.
That said, the following cards are all invaluable in this matchup:
Scavenging Ooze - requires heavy green mana (primary targets: Bridge, Ichorids, Dredgers, in that order)
Swords to Plowshares - good for taking out discard outlets and Ichorids
Mental Misstep - anything it can hit
Jitte - controls Bridges and Ichorid recursions
Batterskull - lifegain and token-popping.
The last one is a last ditch effort. Popping the Germ token is very mana intense and all you get out of it is cancelling the Bridge from Below. I much prefer using Jitte since it keeps you the aggressor, triggers on both attacking and defending, and is overall more versatile.
For people that also run E-tutors in the sideboard, consider Engineered Explosives as insurance against tokens from EtW, Thopter Foundry, and Bridge from Below.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
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I played a tournament yesterday in Nuremberg (The GW-Meta). I wanted to test some cards you suggested in this thread. That means: Mental Misstep and Parallax Wave. Unfortunately I was a really drunk the night before and made a few mistake. We were 30 Players and I finished 4th Place, going 4-1.
Here is the decklist:
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Eternal Witness
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Mental Misstep
3 Parallax Wave
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Sideboard
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Serenity
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Nature's Claim
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Life from the Loam
2 Wing Shards
2 Choke
1 Krosan Grip
A short report:
Round 1: Enchantress
Game one I just died with two Swords to Plowshares in my hand. A virtual Mulligan to five is not the way to go.
Game two I was able to destroy all his Enchantress Presence with Qasalis and Harmonic Sliver. Missteped a few Elephand Grass and raced his Sigil of the Emtpy Throne.
Game three: Again I was able to handle his Enchantress Presence, but couldn’t put pressure on him. He manages to get Argothian Enchantress and drew too many cards. I scooped after he plays his Replenish. Couldn’t win at this point.
0-1
Round 2: GW-Maverick (my list from Bazaar of Moxen with only a few changes)
I played against a friend of mine. He was still drunk and puked four times in a row on our way to the tournament.
Game one was all about making fewer mistakes. I won this one, can’t remember how exactly I won this match.
Game two we screwed each other with Swords and Wastelands from him and Misstep, Swords and Wasteland on my side. We both missed a few landdrops and I was able to topdeck lands and won this match.
1-1
Round 3: Dragon Stompy
Game one I got hit really hard by a Magus of the Moon and wasn’t able to play spells. He followed it with and SoBaM. And I scooped.
Game two I fetched my basics, was able to drop a Noble Hierarch and won the game really easily.
Game three he mulliganed to 6, destroyed my first two creatures with Flametongue Kavu. I dropped Eternal Witness (great blocker for Flametongue Kavus xD) and was able to take control of the game. After the Kavus are gone, he dropped Lord of Shatterskull Pass and Rakdos Pit Dragon. I dropped two Parallax Wave and simply raced him.
2-1
Round 4: UBG-Vision-Control
Game one wasn’t that difficult. Wastelands and more Wastelands of Eternal Witness won me the game.
Game two he handled all my spells and beat my down with an Tarmogoyf.
Game three was a long game, but I was able to get SoFaF, Batterskull, Knight, Mindcensor and a Ranger on the table, while he only has two Tarmogoyfs -à I won.
3-1
Round 5: Cephalid Breakfast
Game one he comboed turn 4. So I died.
Game two I mulliganed to 6, he to 5. I kept a bad hand, did not have any pressure, but a Mental Misstep and a Krosan Grip (I am not sure if I should board this one in). I was able to draw threats and won the game.
Game three he mulliganed again and I kept a hand with a few lands, 3 Missteps and a Zenith. Again not much pressure, but a lot of disruption. I countered most of his spells, witnessed back my Missteps and won the game.
4-1
A few thoughts:
Misstep was great. I had to cut my Mother of Runes for it, but it was fine. I always payed two life but didn’t regret it once.
Parallax Wave: Whenever I had it in play I won the games. Didn’t draw it often. This definitely needs more testing.
All in all I was not satisfied with the list I played. Sometimes I wasn’t able to put enough pressure on the table. This was also the first tournament where my Aven Mindcensors didn’t do anything, except being 2-1 flying creatures.
I went 2-2-1 today in a tournament. I drew mediocre/bad but I can't blame the deck for anything, it was _ME_ who played really bad. I was tired and I did mistakes in every game I played.
Aven Mindcensor wasn't needed that much. I went down to 3 mother of runes, I want to go back to 4 again. Rafiq of the Many was a removal magnet (oh really?) and I really like the card still. I played 2 Scryb Ranger because I thought there would be a lot of blue. There was, but I didn't play against single blue deck in the whole tournament. Thrun did bad once again while Sylvan Library was good always even through I lost one game while having library online. (he had bob and I didn't have removal or anything for it, boo hoo.)
Will be trying out Parallax Wave, I need to play a lot more with this deck, I did so many dumb mistakes that I'm just ashamed of myself. Also, 4 Horizon Canopy is too much. -2 canopy +1 savannah +1 windswept heath. I had two swords of x & y in my deck, they didn't come handy most of the time. Sword of Fire and Ice is the strongest sword, but I don't know did I ever fetch it.. it was always SoLaS, Batterskull or Jitte.
I did learn one thing today though: Scavenging Ooze is the real deal. It's just awesome. Aven Mindcensor kept on disappointing me.
Yesterday we tried to have a rare Legacy tournament in Murfreesboro, which fell through due to basically a room full of "Meh, I GUESS I'll keep this." Eight willing players in a room, more than eight decks, what the hell damn guys?
So instead a handful of us spent the afternoon swapping piles and asking "Can I play whoever wins here?"
Some matches we took a little more seriously than others w/r/t sideboards and rulings, but basically I went 4-0 with G/W beating Merfolk, Dredge, ANT and CounterThopters.
Here is the list I played:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Eternal Witness
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Mental Misstep
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Sylvan Library
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
SB
4 Krosan Grip
2 Path to Exile
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Choke
Against Merfolk, Scryb Ranger was just punishing, and going on to equip her made me feel like a jerk. I had underrated this card until I realized its ability basically gives your team vigilance. Deciding whether or not to block an exalted Mirran Crusader is also a lose-lose proposition for the opponent. I think I used Noble Hierarch to hardcast Misstep on a late Cursecatcher to keep him from chumping.
Against Ichorid, one game he mulled to oblivion and another I found an early Teeg to shut off Dread Return and then got Ooze to ruin him. Somewhere in here I Misstepped a discard outlet as well. Jerky.
Against ANT G1 I Misstepped an early cantrip, then he Duressed revealing all creatures and land he couldn't hit before scooping to Gaddock Teeg. He wasn't super-experienced with the deck yet and I suspect that hurt him in places.
G2 I was able to E.Tutor out a fast Canonist and backed it up with Mindcensor. He tried to EOT Echoing Truth my Mindcensor and then Chain of Vapor my Canonist, but I had the Misstep to protect it. Mindcensor stunted a couple of attempts at tutoring here, which was nice.
Counterthopters was hectic.
G1 I got two fast Hierarchs and when he went to Engineered Explosives them I had the Misstep. I kept putting off playing a Bojuka Bog in my hand even though the extra mana would've been nice, because my dumb ass kept thinking for some reason that clearing his graveyard at sorcery speed would be uesful at some point. :-/ Not reely...
Anyway I connected a couple of times with double-exalted Mirran Crusader (rude!) before he slammed down an Ensnaring Bridge. He assembled the Thopter combo but with Ooze on the board and green mana open I was able to keep him off it by threatening to exile his Sword of the Meek. It was close but I was able to finish the job bashing in under the Bridge using Hierarchs.
Now, a word on Gaddock Teeg: he is my hero. As someone who has spent more than a decade wanting to flood the board with jerks and basically cold walking into Wrath of God the whole time, Gaddock Teeg is my boy. I have fond memories of shutting down half of old-school Landstill decks with him and Mother of Runes, to say nothing of Storm decks whose only bounce was Repeal. But this love affair with the wrinkly spotted kithkin bastard is sometimes a liability. Case in point:
G2 I E.Tutored out a Null Rod but he E.Tutored an Oblivion Ring to deal with it. I bait out a Force of Will with GSZ for three - my opponent remarks that he doesn't want to see Teeg, though I would've instead gotten the Ooze because Teeg was in my hand.
Also in my hand after I resolved Teeg: a trapped Zenith.
Also never in my hand that game: Krosan Grips or Pridemages to stop the Thopter Combo from killing me under Ensnaring Bridge. Booo...
My logic had been that Teeg would shut off scary stuff like Moat and Planeswalkers and Explosives and more Forces, but losing the game with two Zeniths trapped in my hand was painful. Probably I should've tutored for Choke to begin with. D'oh.
G3 sees him get the Thopter Combo online while my mana is still developing, but before he can get too crazy I'm lucky and find a Scryb Ranger, Aven Mindcensor and Sword of Fire and Ice. Thopters are blue! Several turns go back and forth where he's gaining a few life and making some flappers, and I'm bashing through with the Sword to shock a guy and draw a card, holding back all but a few points from his air force with equipped Mindcensor, untapped via Scryb Ranger and bolstered by Maze of Ith.
This goes on for quite awhile, during which I Wasteland an Academy Ruins, find Pridemage to kill one Foundry only to see him play another, rip into Krosan Grip, and ultimately Eternal Witness getting back Krosan Grip to seal the deal. Good games Carlos.
Thoughts on some cards:
- I never saw Sylvan Library, but with all the shuffle effects available it seems really fun.
- Thrun, the Last Troll and Elspeth, Knight Errant both tempted me to play with them like a lot, but I ended up being glad to have a low curve. See also: Batterskull.
- I had been thinking of Mirran Crusader v. Aven Mindcensor as an either/or but was glad to have both. Not being able to Zenith for them was sometimes annoying, but I think that reflects positively on their utility.
- I love love love Mother of Runes, but Mental Misstep was just better in that slot. It lets you interact and disrupt in ways Mom can't, and lets you spend crucial early mana elsewhere.
- Boarding in Null Rod can be a head-scratcher because it turns off the ability to equip, but against Thopters for instance you don't necessarily want to board out all your gear either.
- Similarly, while pairing Zenith with Teeg can seem loose, I think he offers so much in the way of disruption for some decks like Storm and Dredge that it's worth the awkwardness.
So yeah! Good luck have fun and happy Zenithing...
"It possesses no intelligence, only counter-intelligence."
It should be noted that you can use Karakas to bounce Teeg and continue Zenithing, then replay Teeg. It's subtle, but sometimes relevant.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Hello fellow maverick players I had a couple questions before I embark onto a tournament this week. My SB looks like this:
SB 15
2x krosan grip
2x wing shards
2x choke
2x Enlightened tutor
1x gaddock
1x Ethersworn
1x null rod
1x sundial of the infinite
1x EE
1x tormod’s crypt
1x bojuka bog
My deck itself will change depending on the answers I get to my question.
Meta:Majority: NO RUG Zoo merfolk stoneblade U/W bant aggro. very little: storm hivemind and reanimator and dredge
I do not run mental misstep right now.
Any thoughts on sundial of the infinite against hivemind or best tools against hivemind?
Also How many teeg should we be running in md and sb combined (i run one main and one side now) if we expect a lot of rug and stoneblade?
Also I like mirran crusader and has been proven to be good in my meta.
What are the upsides and downsides to him other than being burned out easily and if I have if md do I keep him in against zoo?
Lastly what are the best tools against any jace deck?
Sorry for so many questions. I have a tournament this week and just needed to workout the last few things in sideboard and maindeck after all the testing I have been doing for a month.
Angel's Grace is good against Hive Mind. It can also be ok against an attacking Progenitus, but there are better answers to Progenitus than that.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
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