I'll post my list in a day or two, but I pretty-much outlined what I'm liking above. 3 vial, 3 mystic 1 sof&i, 1 jitte, 4 misstep, 3 mom, 3 fathom.Originally Posted by spedn7
I may be wrong on the fathom, but not sure what else to cut. Maybe a wayfarer?
Also I'm thinking of a less diverse sideboard with more redundancy. Maybe only 2 enlightened tutor with the rest as 3 ofs to give me effectively 5 of any one piece of sideboard hate without the need to absolutely rely on resolving the tutor, which will get misstepped way too often.
If we increase the Mystic count to 3 or maybe even 4? Wouldn't Batterskull be something to consider,
a 4/4 with lifelink and vigilance for 1W sounds quite nice?
Another "weird" card I thought of (I obviously enjoy being told how stupid my ideas are) is Silver Drake. It would let us re-use Mystic and Seer, and correct me if I'm wrong (since rules aren't my strong side either) but couldn't Drake be vialed in to bounce something back to your hand in response to StoP or bolt and other removal?
One more question while I'm at it, does Phyrexian Metamorph count as a blue card (FoW)?
I'm not sure Batterskull is the best fit for an aggro deck; but it does seem like a nice bonus.
RE: Silver Drake, yes you are correct. His ability will trigger just like Flickerwisp from Vial.
Phyrexian Metamorph is indeed blue for the purpose of Force of Will.
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There's Stonecloaker these days, which is quite abundantly better at what Silver Drake does (apart from pitching to Force of Will, but yeah - both Flash and built-in graveyard-hate are huge). It's not seeing play any more since combat damage doesn't go on the stack though.
Your ideas aren't stupid. These are my personal observations, and I'm a total noob so I may be off, but I took out sphinx to cram misstep into the deck, so I have no 3cc creatures (except morph, but that doesn't count), and I never want to tick vial past 2. That being said, if you want to make your deck more like a blue and taxes, that's totally cool, but probably stonecloaker would be better as Colo states. It's not blue, but it can be a pseudo-counter for removal just like the drake.
@Star|Scream, Thank you :)
This is the list I'm playing in Saturdays tournament;
4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
2 Plains
1 Island
3 Aether Vial
4 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
3 Fathom Seer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger
1 Aven Mimeomancer / Silver Drake
1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Sideboard
3 Meddling Mage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Jotun Grunt
2 Enlightning Tutor
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Aura of Silence
1 Phyrexian Metamorph / Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace / Sword of Light and Shadow
61 cards MD, but I'll cut something after the tourney. There's a million cards I would like to try both MD and SB but the only issues I want to decide for this Saturday is MD Mimeomancer or Drake (Stonecloaker is definitely better but I want a blue card for FoW) and SB Metamorph or Revoker + which Sword.
4 SM might be too much but I would very much like to see both Batterskull and an "ordinary" equipment as often as possible.
I am very grateful for any opinions on my last card choices but I rather don't make any bigger changes anymore so please don't tempt me :)
I can't decide!
Everything else is stock except only 3x Mom
4x Misstep
3x Stoneforge
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire & Ice
OR
3x Misstep
2x Stoneforge
1x Jitte
1x Sword of Fire & Ice
2x Vexing Sphinx
The batterskull can't come in unless there are more SFM. It is dead in my hand sometimes. I hate that. But it's batterskull, and if I get a sfm to turn 3, it's often "GG"
or
Vexing sphinx is really good card draw. Misstep helps protect against exile, and it replaces itself or more if they have any other type of removal after 1 turn. The deck draws more cards, thereby feeding the second sphinx, and i'm able to draw even more cards. The Jitte is much easier to cast, stops opposing jittes, and once it's on an avenger it's a 3-4 turn clock. However it takes longer, and I don't really get the concessions as quick as I do with batterskull.
Thoughts????
I play 3x Mom, 3x Seer and;
3x Misstep
4x Stoneforge
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of ?? (depends on the meta)
1x Jitte
and one more sword in the sideboard. I've never regretted gong to 4x SFM, that is usually the card I'm hoping to draw from seer/sphinx anyhow. Jitte is too good to cut and with 4x SFM I can also play a third equipment, there's a lot of bant in my meta so I often have Sword of Body and Mind in my sideboard (or even MD).
And how have you been doing in events?
Also what do you usually bring in the mages for post-board? And what do you usually take out for them?
Last event I went 3-2 winning against two NO Bant and one UW Countertop, loosing to White Stax and Maverick. I played one Jace and one Mimeomancer MD and they got sided out in every game. I side in 3 Meddling Mage in almost every game since most decks have some "gamewinning" card to name (NO, Loam, Counterbalance, Crucible...).
I don't side them in against tribals, affinity or stax since there are no "crucial" cards in those decks (IMO). As I said, Jace and Mimeomancer was sided out all my games and usually a StoP or Wayfarer for the third MM, depending my opponents deck.
The next event is on Saturday and I'll write some kind of report after the event with more details of how I sided.
In my meta there's a lot of Stoneforge + Batterskull now so I thought I'll try a couple of Vendilion Clique to get rid of whatever my opponent fetches with his/her Stoneforge.
Here's the list I'm playing on Saturday if someone is interested;
Main deck (61 cards)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
2 Plains
1 Island
3 Aether Vial
4 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
3 Fathom Seer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Body and Soul
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
Sideboard
3 Meddling Mage
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Submerge
2 Enlightning Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Aura of Silence
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Went 3-0-2 at a 22-man local tournament. Came in 3rd overall in the swiss. Lost first round of top 8 :(
I'm sorry this is so brief. I didn't take notes, and don't really remember much.
I played the standard list except with
+4 missteps, +1 stoneforge, +1 soF&I,
-1 Jitte, -2 spell pierce, -2 sphinx, -1 mom
In the board:
1x Absolute Law
1x Wheel
1x Relic
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Energy Flux
1x Aura of Silence
2x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Enlightened Tutor
3x Meddling Mage
1x Jotun Grunt
1-1-1 New Horizons & Taxes?? It was a WGu sort of thing with mangara and karakas, kotr, but blue added as well. It went on for quite some time.
2-1 I think it was stoneforge zoo? I don't remember much except I boarded in absolute law and I think I may have played it once.
2-1 Merfolk stoneforge and sof&I do what they do.
2-0 UWr stoneforge deck. swords on lavamancers and sof&i shined.
Round 5 ID with #1 spot 4-0 guy.
Top 8 against the same UWr deck I faced in Round 4:
I kept a one land hand with wayfarer & brainstorm g1. Neither of them worked to find me my second land. Lavamancer killed any chance I had to keep a mystic on board long enough to get out some equipment. Jace bounced the only thing I could keep on board--avenger.
Game 2 my opponent got a manriki-gusari and took out any chance I had of getting a soF&I to connect.
I wish I had more to write about each match, but really all of the matches blended together. Honestly it wasn't much different than in testing on MWS, except I actually faced much less JTMS than what's online.
I will go over my choices:
Absolute law: I expected a lot of red, including goblins, RUG or fire/ice decks. Our creatures need to stay active for at least a turn or two to get this deck going. With grunt being the only un-boltable creature, and going to 3 moms, I wanted something that could help against lavamancer and fire/ice.
relic, wheel, grunt: 3 slots for graveyard hate, painter servant hate, goyf and kotr shrinkers.
Metamorph: I removed karakas from my list after drawing it naturally one-too many times in testing, and never using it. It's only useful against sneaked-emrakul or kira/teeg. So I conceded game 1 against any legendary bomb and gave myself 4 (virtual) outs to them in the board. I never got to use it.
Energy Flux: Oops, I win against affinity, and it does almost as well against MUD and sometimes STAX.
Aura of Silence: My only non-creature removal. I don't like this card. It's too slow and really doesn't hose anything that Energy flux also hoses except Enchantress... And that's not really a hose because they can play around it. I honestly might want seal of cleansing better, or (seeing how well it did against me) Manriki-Gusari.
2x Canonist: Elves and Storm. Won't leave home without her.
3x Enlightened Tutor: I wanted to have 5 virtual copies of any sb strategy. In the end I didn't play against any "unfair" decks so I really didn't use the card that often. I opted for Meddling mage and the 3rd grunt the most.
3x Meddling Mage: I chose the mage over revoker because the mage is blue, can't be targeted by qasali, and can actually attack into a stoneforge without dying. The downside is the mage can't shut off permanents that are already on the board or be vialed in "in response" to playing jace. But they are blue!!!
So my thoughts: I like this deck! As I see it there are 5 cards up for debate. They are:
2x Vexing Sphinx
2x Mental Misstep
3rd Stoneforge Mystic
3rd Vial
1x Batterskull vs. 1x Sword of Fire & Ice
If 2x Misstep take the place of spell pierce, then really we need to decide how many more missteps to run. If we run 4, do we get rid of the sphinx altogether?
Is it wrong to run 3 SFM with only 2 maindeck targets?
If we run 3 SFM should we have utility equipment (gusari, soL&S) in the SB?
Is batterskull better against the field than SoF&I? (p.s. stoneforge just got banned in Standard so that should lower batterskull prices!)
If everyone is running UX/x with misstep would it be wiser to run more vial in hopes to stick one? I hate drawing one after one is in play though!!
Also, what's the best way to deal with JTMS? O-ring, revoker, original jace, lol?
I really hope we can revive this thread.
I might add 2nd MD Jotun Grunt to the list of "up for debate". Tarmogoyf is a lot less ubiquitous than it's been in the past - the meta's moved much more toward Stoneforge Mystic being the definitive two drop.
I'd still probably run 2-3 Grunt between the main and side, but I could see dropping one from the main. I'm currently trying 1x MD Grunt and swapped the 2nd to Stoneforge Mystic #3. In doing so I've added the 2nd Grunt to the board for the match ups where a 2cc 4/4 is particularly good such as against Tarmogoyf decks.
I'd also consider Sword of Body and Mind as an additional piece of utility equipment that is potentially fighting for a slot in the deck. With decks like Merfolk, Maverick and Team America putting up solid top 8s. And hard to deal with U/G cards like Jace the Mind Sculptor, and Knight of the Reliquary being prominent in meta, Sword of Body and Mind gives pretty relevant protections. With the addition of Mental Misstep to help protect the body one is equipping from being removed in response (ie Swords to Plowshares / Lightning Bolt) the need for pro:W/R is mitigated a bit. Not totally sold on it, but I think it deserves consideration.
I'm currently trying 3x Mental Misstep - dropping 2x Spell Pierce and 1x Mother of Runes. They serve a somewhat similar function of protecting bodies you're trying to equip from removal. Misstep has the nice perk of being able to gain you tempo against agro getting turn 1 Nacatls, Lackeys, Vials, while providing Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares protection and hitting some good cards against Combo decks.
I think that's fine. Personally for Stoneforge Mystic ratios I like: 4 SFM / 3 Equip, 3 SFM / 3 Equip, or 3 SFM / 2 Equip.
I think utility equipment has some merit, you have access to a powerful tutor effect if there's some back breaking tutor target against a popular archetype it probably makes sense to give it a slot in the 75.
I don't think they're really comparable. Batterskull is a great pull from behind card, especially against agro - where Sword of Fire and Ice is a great way to maintain positive board state/pressure.
Batterskull is better against agro than Sword of Fire and Ice - the lifelink and vigilance can pull you ahead quickly. My only real issue with Batterskull is that it's virtually uncastable in the deck if you can't Stoneforge Mystic 'vial' it into play. Given the heart of the deck is Weathered Wayfarer and his interactions with Fathom Seer and Daze hitting 5 mana in UW Tempo is often unrealistic. Granted we have Mother of Runes and Mental Misstep to protect Stoneforge Mystic, but in the situations where we draw Batterskull naturally or SFM is removed, Batterskull is a blank. This isn't the case in the other decks utilizing Batterskull - all the UW Caw Blade ports, even Maverick if they're running it have Noble Hierarch and more lands to somewhat realistically cast it.
Sword of Fire and Ice is really powerful against control, combo or when one has a dominant board state - an extra 4 damage and another card to hand is a great way to speed up one's clock and stay in control.
I'm leaning towards keeping Aether Vial count at 3x. As you've stated there's a lot of Mental Misstep running around, and Aether Vial makes our Mother of Runes and Stoneforge Mystics alot more potent. It's a card I'm always happy to see 1 of, especially early in the game - Brainstorming additional copies back into the library is often an option in the later game.
Again, I think Sword of Body and Mind deserves some consideration in addition to the cards you mentioned. It has fairly powerful application against Jace the Mind Sculptor, in addition to helping race Merfolk (if you can keep LOA/your Islands off the table) and Maverick. Admittedly the mill effect is mostly garbage, but punching through U/G guys for an extra 2 damage and then getting a 2/2 body that can have the Sword equipped to it post combat for a 4/4 pro:U/G blocker can dig you out of some situations.
I'm still messing around with a list some, but currently am trying:
// Lands 17
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
2 Plains
1 Island
// Creatures 19
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Serra Avenger
4 Fathom Seer
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Jotun Grunt
// Instants 18
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
3 Daze
// Artifacts 6
3 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Body and Mind
// Sideboard
3 Meddling Mage
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Jotun Grunt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Aura of Silence
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
I think this deck still has a lot of fire power in the current meta. Obviously Blue has always been a definitive color in the format and UW Tempo runs a collection of the most busted cards in the color. Blue based tempo decks have gained a lot from the printing of Mental Misstep and I feel like it fits here as well as any place.
It seems like the format is catching on to how much power White has at it's disposal now as well. Up until the past 6mo or so people have looked at White as Swords to Plowshares. Stoneforge Mystic and Mother of Runes are starting to be more appreciated for their strength.
Cairo: Thanks for the feedback.
I've been testing (online at least) 3x spell pierce in the board. I really haven't been disappointed. Granted I just put them in there, but they can really help against dedicated control decks to push through our threats or counter jace, deed, shackles. However if I up my vials to 3 I might have a better chance to resolve my mages. Will test.
With only 17 blue sources main do you ever find yourself blue-less for FOW?
I have 18 (10 Counters, 4 BS, 4 FS), but the short answer would be yes.
To elaborate, most of the Blue cards in the deck are important situationally anyway. I try to bear Force of Will in mind when making my choices on playing out Blue cards. Holding Brainstorm very conservatively versus decks I know have must-FoW-bombs. Daze and Mental Misstep help hit a bunch of issue cards, but versus NO, SnT, or Jace I tend to let removal or less relevant creatures resolve to have an out.
Post board the deck can adapt easily to support or neglect Force of Will depending on the match up. IE some number of Force can be boarded out against fair/agro decks where Jotun Grunts, SoFaF, Relic and/or Revoker are often helping more. And Meddling Mage comes in over some non-Blue cards (often StP and/or SoBaM) versus decks that one really needs Force of Will buffing my Blue count to 21.
Sorry, I mis-counted. For some reason i can't add.
I can't argue with the sideboard. I'm not sure if I want 3 equipment maindeck, and I find the grunt really gives us a chance and surprise against "win game 1" decks like dredge and aggro loam. So I think I may stick with 2 equip + 2 grunts, but I can def see cutting the 4th misstep. Although it has a use nearly every game, sometimes I'd rather have a threat out or a vial, or even spell pierce.
Which brings me to: Do you think that the mage is more important than spell pierce? If the SB has 3 open blue spots, which is better? They both do much of the same thing, except the mage can shut off everything and wear equipment while SP isn't vulnerable to removal, costs less, but can't hit creatures... Bear in mind I just bought a playset of mages so I'm really itchin to use them. hehe
Help! I can't find a 4th Tundra. Is it better to put in a an extra island, plains, wasteland, or a singleton karakas?
The manabase is optimal. Remember this is designed to be a competative deck.
Run a hallowed fountain, even though it sucks. Extra basics will mess up how the deck works.
Only posts when drunk.
I've tried it with 1 fountain and I really don't like it. I very rarely have more than 3 lands out, so the 3 tundras or 2 tundra 1 basic work well. Wayfarer sticking means I can get anything I need.
the biggest problem with fountain is seen when using daze and fathom seer. the 2 life isn't so bad. But the 2 life after a daze, and then again after a seer, plus misstep damage.... I think I'd rather be color-screwed occasionally.
http://www.dacardworld.com/gaming/mt...gn=Google_Base
There, I found you a tundra.
Don't run karakas. A fetchland is probably your next best option.
Only posts when drunk.
I plan to play this deck, too. (at kitchen table)
What do you think about Meddling Mage + Gitaxian Probe interaction or StifleNought in Maindeck?
Also, what do you think about Leonin Relic-Warder and Ninja of the Deep Hours?
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