[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

[Royal Ass.]

This might be out of topic but the new judge foil is Dark Confidant with an old frame (with the star streak foil)

I am very happy that they are continuing this trend of reprinting awesome cards with the old card frame. I just wish they would print them non-foil... Regardless, this is a nice development. My preference for magic card aesthetics is frozen in time in 1994 when I started. I prefer old style, non-digital art, old card frame, non foil, and even the old language like "Summon X" instead of the bland and sterile "Creature - X." But just seeing something in the old card frame makes me happy even if it's marred with a big shiny shooting star :)

[dontbiteitholmes]

I don't expect to pay $5 for my modern deck, but I also don't expect to pay $60 for a Dark Confidant, $40 for a blue shockland and $100 for a Tarmogoyf, and lets face it, between Vintage, Legacy, Modern and EDH, that's how much these cards are going to end up costing.

In an interview with 'I Came to Game' Richard Garfield states that he feels that about $20 is the most that he thinks a competitive rare should cost; any more than that, and it's harmful to the game. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect reprints that will push Modern staples into that price range. Now, as soon as I saw Modern revealed as a format for the community cup, I snap bought some shocklands on the cheap, and as soon as it was confirmed, I bought a few more, as well as Bitterblossoms, Mutavaults, etc, so I already have all the cards I'll need for a while (Give or take a couple shocklands), and I still am all for reprinting the staples. I want to finally see an eternal format succeed where every other one has failed; card availability, and from what WoTC has said so far, it looks like they are able and willing to keep the prices down. Don't forget, WoTC isn't stupid. They know that the USA is in a recession, and they know that in order for people to invest in their new format, the price has to be right.

Yeah WotC is not stupid. Which is why they won't push the price of staples in an Eternal format lower than the prices on Standard legal cards like Prime Titan or the new planeswalkers which are all $30+ cards. I mean think about it, even Goyf and Confidant are only a little more expensive than Prime Titan at his peak. I think you are overestimating the draw of Modern when you say Confidant and Goyf are going to be $100 cards.

[honestabe]

Yeah WotC is not stupid. Which is why they won't push the price of staples in an Eternal format lower than the prices on Standard legal cards like Prime Titan or the new planeswalkers which are all $30+ cards. I mean think about it, even Goyf and Confidant are only a little more expensive than Prime Titan at his peak. I think you are overestimating the draw of Modern when you say Confidant and Goyf are going to be $100 cards.

Confidant is already 40, and goyf 70. I don't think you can argue that their being staples in a new format wouldn't raise their prices significantly.

[dahcmai]

I would severely enjoy it if they decided to make that Modern an official new format and Goyf and Confidant went through the roof in price hitting $200 in the first day. That would make a few people cry and wish they hadn't whined about Legacy prices. What's funny is it's entirely possible. Those two and Jace would be the fastest rising stars of all. Giving into consideration that Stoneforge Mystic is banned right off the bat.

[trivial_matters]

Why do you think Stoneforge Mystic would be banned from the very beginning?

[sporenfrosch1411]

Because it would be format defining and sculpting, like it was in Standard. Don't forget you have access to even more Equips in Modern than you have in Standard. In general you could build a way better CAW Blade in Modern and it would be a DTB right away.
But tbh, i don't think they would ban it right away. Wizards as allways would need some consideration time i guess.

[ivanpei]

Modern magic confirmed:

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/aaron-...odern-the-nod/

Hallowed fountain 25 USD sold out on SCG. Looks like my 40 set of rav duals @7.50 each is a great investment now!!! Most rav duals have jumped to 15-25. :)

[honestabe]

Modern magic confirmed:

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/aaron-...odern-the-nod/

Hallowed fountain 25 USD sold out on SCG. Looks like my 40 set of rav duals @7.50 each is a great investment now!!! Most rav duals have jumped to 15-25. :)

Yeah, it was confirmed friday afternoon actually, and MTGOtraders.com immediatly sold out of everything as far as modern cards go

[TsumiBand]

This will be a real litmus test for WotC's sincerity to maintain an accessible Eternal format, imo. Whether or not reprints drop prices, it's going to get to the point where certain reprints are unavoidable. If they can't find it in their hearts to toss the occasional Confidant, shockland, Nacatl or (assuming no banhammer) SFM into a Core Set from time to time (AND maintain an effective Banned list policy), then this format is already on its way out.

[ivanpei]

They are unlikely to reprint everything. Most likely they will just toss in a reprint here and there in a duel deck or something like that. The expensive stuff like Goyf, Bob etc are going to be Judge foils (bob already is). As for the Rav dual dilemma, $25 for one is not as bad as $130 for an underground sea. Team America (or any tricolour Tier 1 legacy deck) Costs $2000-2500. Modern decks will likely cost $500-800. Thats a huge difference IMO and this makes Modern much more accessible.

Wizards can't just reprint whenever a card gets expensive. They've never mass reprinted a really expensive staple before. Massively expensive stuff like wasteland, bob, SOFI, natural order, etc get reprinted at judge foil and this does not affect prices much. I think we have to live with the fact that competitive magic will always be expensive. Being 1/4-1/3 the price of legacy, Modern is much cheaper and much easier to get into and I believe thats what wizards intended.

[honestabe]

They are unlikely to reprint everything. Most likely they will just toss in a reprint here and there in a duel deck or something like that. The expensive stuff like Goyf, Bob etc are going to be Judge foils (bob already is). As for the Rav dual dilemma, $25 for one is not as bad as $130 for an underground sea. Team America (or any tricolour Tier 1 legacy deck) Costs $2000-2500. Modern decks will likely cost $500-800. Thats a huge difference IMO and this makes Modern much more accessible.

Wizards can't just reprint whenever a card gets expensive. They've never mass reprinted a really expensive staple before. Massively expensive stuff like wasteland, bob, SOFI, natural order, etc get reprinted at judge foil and this does not affect prices much. I think we have to live with the fact that competitive magic will always be expensive. Being 1/4-1/3 the price of legacy, Modern is much cheaper and much easier to get into and I believe thats what wizards intended.

I agree with you here. I think we'll immediatly see a reprinting of Goyf in one way or another, because his price is pretty high right now, nevermind when Modern gets going. I think the same thing goes for Bob. Shocks will probably be 25 for blue, 15 for non-blue for a while, and then they'll probably get printed next fall, as that set is allegedly a return to Ravnica. I definitely don't expect WoTC to make modern super cheap, but I sure don't expect them to sit back and allow their format staples to cost upwards to $60 for one copy.

[sporenfrosch1411]

I don't see why a rising price would be bad for Wizards?

Lets imagine this situation:
Modern gets announced this fall. Shockduals rise to 20$ a piece. They slowly keep rising up to a peak of lets say 30$ for the Fountain/Pool/Grave. So far, Wizards has not lost money and has grown a new format. Compared to standard or even to Legacy, prices would be ok, because its somewhere between Standard and Legacy - which also represents the position of the format.
Next summer, Wizards announces to reprint the Duals in the following Block. People will surely then buy a lot of Boxes, because they hope to pull Duals / Foil Duals. Even more people would then join the format, seeing that especially Standard players will get their hands on the Staples for an Eternal format. As soon as Standard rotates them out, many people might also consider playing Modern then, because, as stated before, they would allready have major parts of the needed staples.

Call me naive for putting all this so simple, but wouldn't this just be a genius act. I can really imagine Wizards doing this, and am convinced that they will reprint the Duals.
Still, getting your hands on them RIGHT NOW should not be a bad idea, they will keep rising, i don't yet see a real hype and i am sure the Hype will come very soon, when the majority of players recognizes Aaron's statement. Don't forget its weekend that this was stated....
Also since more and more people are playing Highlander formats, its most unlikely that the duals would make a big fall, before they are announced to be reprinted.

[cdr]

They are unlikely to reprint everything. Most likely they will just toss in a reprint here and there in a duel deck or something like that. The expensive stuff like Goyf, Bob etc are going to be Judge foils (bob already is).

Though I'm not sure you were arguing it would, judge foils barely affect the prices of cards - that's why WotC lets judge foils get printed at all. An extra 400-500 playsets certainly helps, but doesn't make any real dent.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I agree with you here. I think we'll immediatly see a reprinting of Goyf in one way or another, because his price is pretty high right now, nevermind when Modern gets going. I think the same thing goes for Bob. Shocks will probably be 25 for blue, 15 for non-blue for a while, and then they'll probably get printed next fall, as that set is allegedly a return to Ravnica. I definitely don't expect WoTC to make modern super cheap, but I sure don't expect them to sit back and allow their format staples to cost upwards to $60 for one copy.

There are $35 cards in Standard right now. Twice in the past two & 1/2 years there have been staples in Standard over $50 (Jace and Baneslayer in M10). I think it's extremely naive of people to think there will be an Eternal format without $60 cards. That's why I think Modern is largely a hype format right now. About 1/4 to 1/3 of the people saying they can't wait to play it are the same people who are going to be crying next year when they go to build a deck and it's $500.

I think Bob showing up as a judge promo shows they have no intention to reprint him in the return to Ravnica. Tarmogoyf will probably be reprinted at some point because he's a Future Sight card and it would heavily push a set he's in, I think initially he was just a way to forecast Planeswalkers as a card type but he could easily fit into the next set with a horror theme or in a return to Ravnica as a Golgari guild creature.

I think the way WotC is going with Modern is going to be keeping the lands low in price, which makes sense for them because they like to have their options open for Standard anyways.

[honestabe]

There are $35 cards in Standard right now. Twice in the past two & 1/2 years there have been staples in Standard over $50 (Jace and Baneslayer in M10). I think it's extremely naive of people to think there will be an Eternal format without $60 cards. That's why I think Modern is largely a hype format right now. About 1/4 to 1/3 of the people saying they can't wait to play it are the same people who are going to be crying next year when they go to build a deck and it's $500.

I think Bob showing up as a judge promo shows they have no intention to reprint him in the return to Ravnica. Tarmogoyf will probably be reprinted at some point because he's a Future Sight card and it would heavily push a set he's in, I think initially he was just a way to forecast Planeswalkers as a card type but he could easily fit into the next set with a horror theme or in a return to Ravnica as a Golgari guild creature.

I think the way WotC is going with Modern is going to be keeping the lands low in price, which makes sense for them because they like to have their options open for Standard anyways.

One exception of a very expensive card is not a big deal, but when the format staples (Bob, Jace, Goyf) are all $60+, something's wrong. We all know how expensive Jace was, but WoTC admitted that they planned on reprinting him in M12, until he became too much of a problem. Before it changed, Goyf was $25-ish and during the last 'old extended' season off-season, and when extended time rolled around he jumped to $100. I don't think it's a coinsidence that they changed extended for the next season.

Though they may not publicly say it, WoTC doens't like it when cards are too expensive. It makes them look bad, and keeps people away from the game. I really, really doubt they want their NEW format to be immediatly overshadowed by high prices and the negativity that follows them.

[DTC]

It's impossible for them to have an eternal format without having higher prices on staples, it's supply and demand and these cards in question are in lower supply for the trade binders. Most copies were already absorbed by eternal players or dealers hands so the prices will spike quite a bit and stay there. The shocks have a likely reprint coming. The rumored return to ravnica could even bring them back (Ally colors in the large set, then enemy colors in one of the later sets sort of like invasion block style) if they don't in a core set. Even back in the days of the rav block wizards announced they would likely come back and that's why they gave them very neutral names.

[dontbiteitholmes]

One exception of a very expensive card is not a big deal, but when the format staples (Bob, Jace, Goyf) are all $60+, something's wrong. We all know how expensive Jace was, but WoTC admitted that they planned on reprinting him in M12, until he became too much of a problem. Before it changed, Goyf was $25-ish and during the last 'old extended' season off-season, and when extended time rolled around he jumped to $100. I don't think it's a coinsidence that they changed extended for the next season.

Though they may not publicly say it, WoTC doens't like it when cards are too expensive. It makes them look bad, and keeps people away from the game. I really, really doubt they want their NEW format to be immediatly overshadowed by high prices and the negativity that follows them.

Still this is an eternal format, WotC can't even keep $30+ cards out of Standard. I see reprints of Goyf in the next 3-4 years because it's future shifted, it would sell many packs, it's not broken in T2 at all, it fits nicely with their plans for Modern, and it's a card that fits in 70% of sets flavor wise or even a base set if they went that route. I see all the lands being under $20. I see the enemy M12 duals coming in the next block to keep the enemy shocklands low when they reprint them in "HOOK", I also see Onslaught fetchlands coming back as soon as Shocklands are out of Standard (which would put fetch + shock in Ext for ~6 solid years again since people might actually play Ext then). With those moves I think all the good duals in Modern will be extremely accessible and in the $10-15 max range within 3-4 years. Of course ON fetches aren't relevant unless they reprint them that's just my assumption on what will happen.

Keeping the lands cheap is vital to the format. Everything else is a toss up. I mean if they reprint Goyf than Jace is the most expensive card with Confidant #2 and even if they are $50 a piece that is still only $15 more than the most expensive card in Standard right now. Jace only is a 4x in control and straight up control is a rough bet in Modern. I mean if you can put together a 3 color mana base for $100-$150 in an Eternal format that makes it about 10x less expensive than Legacy off the bat. People keep saying all these cards are going to blow up in value which is true to a point, but at the same time Legacy demand has never been higher, many of the people who take Modern seriously already have the cards from Legacy, the people who still need the cards are mostly people who are coming into Modern for the first time.

[ivanpei]

I'm honestly just stoked that modern is going to be a real format. In my city, everybody loves legacy and wishes they could get into it. However, it is just too expensive. Modern is a really nice alternative as the "cheaper" eternal format. Sound familiar? This is starting to look like the vintage-legacy split a few years back. I think legacy popularity will stagnate from now on. We are honestly looking at vintage level prices with legacy at the moment. If scg replaces legacy with modern in their opens, legacy as a format will be in big trouble. If scg hosts all 3 formats, that would be the best case scenario.

Modern is coming, we all just need to adapt and deal with it. I for one am happy because people simply cannot play legacy due to the price barrier. I just hope modern does not replace legacy as the premier eternal format. Ideally 3 scg open formats would be best. They can run em at the same time like with their limited opens. Standard on Saturday and modern/legacy on Sunday. The big guns will have to choose between legacy and modern but that looks like the only way forward.

[dahcmai]

Luckily, the majority of the Legacy staples are modern cards anyway. Sure there's a few older Legends cards, but for the most part it's all newer stuff powering our Legacy decks anymore. About the only thing we lose is a lot of the enablers.

So unless you bet your farm on a pile of Moats and Lion's eye's, you're in good shape anyway. Duals won't get hurt much with EDH and collector's keeping those high.

The kicker is they still technically said it's going to be a supported format from here on out. This is the tester. In all reality, it's probably heck of an indicator, but you never know.



I can't wait for the $100 Ravnica duals. lol I'll love watching people flip out over that. Goyf and Confidant are already on the way there now.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I'm honestly just stoked that modern is going to be a real format. In my city, everybody loves legacy and wishes they could get into it. However, it is just too expensive. Modern is a really nice alternative as the "cheaper" eternal format. Sound familiar? This is starting to look like the vintage-legacy split a few years back. I think legacy popularity will stagnate from now on. We are honestly looking at vintage level prices with legacy at the moment. If scg replaces legacy with modern in their opens, legacy as a format will be in big trouble. If scg hosts all 3 formats, that would be the best case scenario.

Modern is coming, we all just need to adapt and deal with it. I for one am happy because people simply cannot play legacy due to the price barrier. I just hope modern does not replace legacy as the premier eternal format. Ideally 3 scg open formats would be best. They can run em at the same time like with their limited opens. Standard on Saturday and modern/legacy on Sunday. The big guns will have to choose between legacy and modern but that looks like the only way forward.

Legacy is in trouble in the long term no doubt, as to what constitutes "long term" is anyone's guess. SCG routinely sets new attendance records with their Legacy events, so I doubt that the change will come in the next couple years, but when you start to get 3-4-5 plus years down the road it's hard to say. The only way I ever see myself taking Modern seriously is if it's run side-by-side with Standard on Saturday, because there are times when I'd rather play anything than Standard. Ironically if Modern becomes popular it will drive up the price of Modern cards and steady the price of Legacy cards which will slow the growth of Modern and extend the time frame on Legacy being viable. In the next couple years though I wouldn't worry about Legacy too much. It's wide open as ever and still the superior format in every way to Modern. Personally when Legacy "dies" and I can't find a big event at least every other month I am officially done with MTG. I'm guessing I'll be done with Magic way before then anyways though. If SCG steps out of Legacy someone will fill that void I think.