There were three Zoo decks in the Top 16 at the latest SCG. All three run 8 Kird Apes. It's better than you think.Originally Posted by troopatroop
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
Yeah, but you're choosing to run Dark Confidant on top of that, and I'm not sure that's what the deck needs. If you're planning on going for the throat, Confidant isn't really the card you want. Also, not posting a manabase for your deck is somewhat embarassing. Lists have 60 cards.
Do you guys really like goblin guide? I got nothing against 8 apes, they are steady and dependable. I really really dislike guides though. Giving my opponent lands can matter. Especially if you also run wastelands. I find myself boarding out guides alot. Also is steppe lynx unplayable at all? I can see it played in a land heavy zoo build (ie 4 wastes).
I'm thinking of playing this:
4 Nacatl
4 Loam Lion
4 Kird Ape
4 Steppe Lynx
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bolt
4 Chain
4 Path
2 Helix/ Rift Bolt/ Fireblast
12 Fetchlands
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Savanna
4 Wasteland
I prefer fireblast as that extra point can matter.
I placed 2nd in very small local tournament and Lynxes were awesome. I would also play and recommend playing this build over kird apes any day.
The mana base was posted five whole posts above it. Not reading that is somewhat embarrassing.
I swapped Dark Confidant for Lightning Helix. I'm not sure how big of a deal Lightning Helix is for beating SFM, but it hasn't that relevant in my testing.
Guides are very hit or miss and they get sided out fairly often. That being said, I've won a lot of games on the back of them, so it's really hard to say.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
you want smt to awnser SFM shizzle, just play faster so with Manriki-Gusari :P
If you run SFM package, it's mostly for the late game so your creatures can get through. Most decks run 4 exile spells, and they should be used up if you get to late game at all.
If you are not able to attack with your creatures, it's probably because there are many creatures, and those are probably green (goyf & knight to mention the MVPs), or merfolks. Therefore I feel body and mind is the best sword.
In my testing Guides are really great. T1 + T2 guides is hard to beat. But I do agree they get (and should) be sided out, especially if you are on the draw G2. You don't want guide to get blocked, you want to hit face.
You're giving them lands (sometimes) but also taking life at a faster rate than normal. It's what the deck is geared to do. And you're giving them lands with Path anyhoo, just saying. Guide doesn't rely on anything like land drops for Steppe lynx. I used to be a huge proponent of lynx but have disliked him in favor of more apes and Guides. Nut Lynx draws are still nut draws, but so are Guides, and Lynx takes a turn extra before it can get in there. I've been in your camp and can say that you just might like it if you tried GG out
I'll give guides a try. I've been annoyed by people topping/brainstorming with a guide trigger on the stack to put a land on the top of their library. Same thing applies to jace/ sylvan/ ponder. Also, how many lands is right and how many wastes?
I'm thinking of playing 22 lands with 19 coloured (all duals and fetches, no basics) and 3 wastes. Thoughts?
I'm trying 23 lands at the moment, of which 3 are wastelands. By the way, you don't really need 2 Savannahs. I've been playing 2 Taigas, 3 Plateaus and 1 Savannah forever now and haven't had any problems. (3 Plateaus because I play 4 Steppe Lynx). I'd cram in a few basics instead.
On an unrelated note, play Price of Progress, at least in the sideboard.
@ivan: This is legacy, people are going to have some busted interactions. Having them top to get a free land or what have you is fine, as long as they're taking some damage.
@trivial: I play that exact same ratio and have been for forever as well. Green is geared down in my list because of all the other green decks in the area and how easily Perish and Plage and blah blah shuts them down. I think I'd rather play PoP than Wasteland, and playing them together is retarded. Kird Animal Zoo with Price of Progress is a strong deck right now. No one is playing Counter/top or Chalice of the Void en masse.
@ivan: This is legacy, people are going to have some busted interactions. Having them top to get a free land or what have you is fine, as long as they're taking some damage.
@trivial: I play that exact same ratio and have been for forever as well. Green is geared down in my list because of all the other green decks in the area and how easily Perish and Plage and blah blah shuts them down. I think I'd rather play PoP than Wasteland, and playing them together is retarded. Kird Animal Zoo with Price of Progress is a strong deck right now. No one is playing Counter/top or Chalice of the Void en masse.
I just want to put in an ounce of my experience with the lynx. You really dont need to play more lands to support it. It works just fine (and very well) with 12 fetches and 8 lands. all these 21+ land zoo decks are pulling out important spells to slightly abuse steppe lynx. Zoo's the only deck ive played for at least 2 years; If theres something i'm missing, please enlighten me. Are people just trying to make wl crappy against us? Because its already not all that great/ you can often play around it +md pop. Why run over 20 lands?? Someone please argue against me. MD teeg wrecks so many decks....
Greetings brothers, I am new to competitive zoo and I would like some critique on this list. Heres the list:
Sligh Zoo (61)
Creatures 23
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
Enchantments 2
2 Sylvan Library
Burn/Removal 14
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Shard Volley
2 Price of Progress
Land 22
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Plateau
4 Taiga
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wasteland
Sideboard 15
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Path to Exile
1 Retribution of the Meek
2 Qasali Pridemage
So its a version of cat sligh I guess. I opted for more burn over PtE in the main to maximize pain. Shard Volley is my attempt at new secret tech, basically I have 12 lightning bolts main in place of PtE and Fireblast. Reason is 2 Fireblast cost 4 land and net 8 damage, albeit for "free". Conversely Shard Volley costs 4 lands and nets 12 damage. Shard Volley also helps to mitigate the maindeck PoP and only requires a land, not a specific type so its a little broader than Fireblast (although id like to squeeze 1 of these back in 2). So anyway there it is, let me know what you have to say.
Except that 12 damage takes 4 cards from your hand. Fireblast only takes 2 cards from your hand for 8 damage. If you want more burn, just run Lightning Helix. It is far better than the weak Shard Volley. You're just asking to get Missteped into a Stone Rain. Rift Bolt is also better than Shard Volley.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
Aw I see, hadnt thought of the misstep LD angle, although FoW etc can hurt Fireblast similar. My reasoning was to add more instant speed burn density to the deck at most efficient cost/damage. Oh well, seemed good on paper :) Not really a fan of Rift Bolt but I may just return to 2x Fireblast as it does take up less space giving me room for PtE back in the main.
Hows the rest look?
I don't like Steppe Lynx, but...
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=38853
That is Patrick Sullivan's deck. I have a hard time disagreeing with many of the choices he makes, so I would start there.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
I understand Steppe Lynx is a matter of personal taste, but I got to agree with Pat Cox. Mostly because I would believe EVERYTHING he has to say about Zoo decks, as he has played with it for years.
Its just great to know that every time you draw a card you are very likely to draw a creature or burn as fetching really thins the mana base.What does cutting Knight let us do? Add even more one-drops of course! As you can see, we have the full eight Kird Apes in this deck. Many people have asked me “why not Steppe Lynx?” Well, Steppe Lynx is terrible in Zoo. Look at this deck: it runs twenty lands. Ideally, you want to draw about 2.5 lands per game. That does not exactly fit with Steppe Lynx. Also, you have to play Lynx early to get any use out of him, and there are many times you do not want to lead with an 0/1. If they're playing Goblin Lackey, you need a 2/2 (soon a 3/3) or 2/3 on turn 1. If they're playing Goblin Guide, you need a 2/3. If they're playing Merfolk, you need a 1/1 that kills their entire deck.
Here is the article for reference. good read
Since Loam Lion, Kird Ape, Grim Lavamancer, Steppe Lynx, and Goblin Guide are so popular, what about Proclamation of Rebirth and/or Ranger of Eos? I admit Eos has a high CMC but Rebirth looks like a promising option for the midgame. Just when your opponent thought that Deed or EE would bring him back in the game...
On a different note, why isn't Dark Zoo more popular/better than Naya Zoo? Maybe it's the price tag but it seems to me like Zoo's manabase is already 95% dual lands. Bob is a beating CA monster, the perfect addition to this deck. Whatever Bob makes you draw into, it will be fuel: lands for Lynx, Terminate to swing, burn for the face, or creatures for the win. I have gotten much more value out of my Lynx and burn spells since I added Bob. Here is my Dark Zoo list:
Creatures (27)
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
Spells (12)
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
Lands (21)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
Sideboard (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Krosan Grip
3 Red Elemental Blast
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
I'm working on a Dark Zoo primer that should be out soon. I agree that Dark Zoo is very promising. Try Mental Misstep in it. It has been a rockstar for me for protecting Bob/Goyf.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
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