[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

[phonics]

Yeah, but goyf is incredibly strong card in legacy/modern, if it goes in standard (which is usually more aggro oriented) it would probably be strong there as well (especially since enemy colored duals are in INN). It could turn out to just be like Jace2.0 again; even though practically every single wwk product was opened he was commanding ~85$ before he was banned in modern and standard. Its possible that a reprinting of goyf would be similar (ie drop the price to a 'modest' 60$).

[jandax]

This is good news, pending appropriate execution of these reprints.

The whole reason Modern exists as a format is to provide players a cheaper alternative to Eternal without conflicting with the reserved list, which I think is a decent reason to have a format. It does not exist because it is inherently a superior format, absent any financial considerations. I think if you asked a bunch of random Magic players, the vast majority would much rather play Legacy, and that before all the nerdraging over the Mirrodin/8th cutoff and the new banned list.

But so far, we have a Modern format that has allowed for rampant speculation, to the point that many Modern decks are significantly more expensive than cheaper versions of competitive Legacy decks. Moreover, the speculation has had a collateral effect of jacking up the prices on post-Mirrodin Legacy staples, further escalating the barrier into Legacy. And I say this not as someone who has been locked out of the Legacy format for financial reasons, but as someone with the Legacy staples necessary to play every single Legacy DTB and the vast majority of the Established decks (except for only three Vendilion Cliques stupid Modern /endrant).

TL;DR we have a new format that isn't really that great on its own merits, but would purportedly decrease the entry cost into Eternal. Except the entry cost into that format is still really steep (probably more so than Legacy less than a year ago), and it's increased the cost of Legacy staples. Total fail all around.

This means that anything on the banned list for Modern is likely on the banned list from reprinting. I mean, if they're going to make staples again via reprints, it's only logical that what's banned now might not be seeing a reprint.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I wouldn't be shocked to see Goyf banned in Modern anyway, he seems the same power level as Bitterblossom, and much stronger than Mental Misstep (in that format).

[dahcmai]

Except for the fact that the banned list is a swath of cards that are obviously good and will slowly come off as power levels are determined. It's better to ban and let them come off the list, than to let them all in and then start banning. They had a "Better safe than sorry" approach to it. I doubt Goyf would see a ban at all. He wasn't broken in standard anyway. He was quite good, but far from broken.

[lordofthepit]

But so far, we have a Modern format that has allowed for rampant speculation, to the point that many Modern decks are significantly more expensive than cheaper versions of competitive Legacy decks. Moreover, the speculation has had a collateral effect of jacking up the prices on post-Mirrodin Legacy staples, further escalating the barrier into Legacy.

Just to follow up on this, I compared the cost of my Zoo deck 6 months ago (the one I would pilot at any serious large tournament) to a decklist of Modern Zoo today. Modern Zoo comes out about $50-100 more expensive.

Certainly, the cost of my Zoo deck would be slightly higher today, but that is due in large part to Modern speculation.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Modern is going to be awkward as hell starting out and a big part of it is that they banned the wrong cards.

First off Mental Misstep being banned is beyond retarded, even more so than the people who think it should be banned in Legacy. Ancestral Visions is the Land Tax of the Modern banned list, I mean give me a break, by the time you are drawing 3 cards off it you either died last turn, or you need an answer off your draws to live until next turn, or your opponent is playing the wrong format.

Scapeshift should have been banned not Valakut. I'll let you put 2 and 2 together on that one but lets just say I wasn't planning on playing Modern until I tested a deck on a whim, and now I'm going to play until Scapeshift is banned because it doesn't make sense not to.

On a related note Scapeshift is a $2 rare right now, expect that to change very soon as many people realize they've been going in the wrong direction.

[Koby]

On a related note Scapeshift is a $2 rare right now, expect that to change very soon as many people realize they've been going in the wrong direction.

Amulet of Vigor is quite strong, agree?

[dontbiteitholmes]

Amulet of Vigor is quite strong, agree?

Amulet of Vigor is quite ass IMO. I will gladly wait until next turn to blow you out rather than waste slots on bad cards.

[SpikeyMikey]

I think it's great they are doing reprints. Hopefully that will also give speculators a slap in the face because a bunch of the cards they invested in now losst a lot of value and that will maybe stop them speculating so hard in the future and therefore stops cards making such overnight jumps in price.

You and me both. Like Magic Fanatic said, people won't sell cards because they know that nothing ever drops in price. Not any signficant amount for any significant time anyway. Even if you buy Forces at $120, you can be secure in the knowledge that at some point in the next 5 years, they'll be worth more than that.

And the market won't flood out when Modern stabilizes because people will hold their cards rather than take a loss; they know that prices will go back up again even if they dip slightly for a while, so you won't see a massive dumping of cards. They'll just keep reposting at peak prices on ebay until they finally sell.

[Ozymandias]

PC on Korean Show and Tell?

[death]

$50ish.

[dontbiteitholmes]

You and me both. Like Magic Fanatic said, people won't sell cards because they know that nothing ever drops in price. Not any signficant amount for any significant time anyway. Even if you buy Forces at $120, you can be secure in the knowledge that at some point in the next 5 years, they'll be worth more than that.

And the market won't flood out when Modern stabilizes because people will hold their cards rather than take a loss; they know that prices will go back up again even if they dip slightly for a while, so you won't see a massive dumping of cards. They'll just keep reposting at peak prices on ebay until they finally sell.

Yeah just like Pithing Needle will be worth $20 a piece again within 3 years and Meddling Mage will be worth $15 a piece within 3 years. Those cards were all worth that before they were reprinted around 2-3 years ago, right?

Point is there are 2 times when reprinting kills the value. #1 is when the value is really high like Tarmogoyf, there is no way he can sustain $100+ if he gets reprinted and he may climb to 50-80 in 5 years but not back to $100. I mean there would be twice as many of him on the market at least plus as soon as he got back to $60-70 people would be wary of another reprint. #2 is when the card was valued too high in the first place as with Pithing Needle. Confidant and Clique might be worth around what they sell for now, but every other Modern hype rare is not and will completely tank the second it shows up in another set. The price for most hype rares is set by the fact that no one picked them up the first time around and now they have been out of print for 4-5 years and everyone is trying to buy them at the same time. See Vesuva, Grove, ect. If people had known these cards would be worth picking up years ago it would have spread out the wallet damage, but now everyone planning on going to a Modern GP next year is buying in in the span of 4 weeks instead of over 4 years.

[SpikeyMikey]

Yeah just like Pithing Needle will be worth $20 a piece again within 3 years and Meddling Mage will be worth $15 a piece within 3 years. Those cards were all worth that before they were reprinted around 2-3 years ago, right?

Point is there are 2 times when reprinting kills the value. #1 is when the value is really high like Tarmogoyf, there is no way he can sustain $100+ if he gets reprinted and he may climb to 50-80 in 5 years but not back to $100. I mean there would be twice as many of him on the market at least plus as soon as he got back to $60-70 people would be wary of another reprint. #2 is when the card was valued too high in the first place as with Pithing Needle. Confidant and Clique might be worth around what they sell for now, but every other Modern hype rare is not and will completely tank the second it shows up in another set. The price for most hype rares is set by the fact that no one picked them up the first time around and now they have been out of print for 4-5 years and everyone is trying to buy them at the same time. See Vesuva, Grove, ect. If people had known these cards would be worth picking up years ago it would have spread out the wallet damage, but now everyone planning on going to a Modern GP next year is buying in in the span of 4 weeks instead of over 4 years.

You're right. Underworld Dreams is another example. So if a card is overvalued (i.e. highly priced for reasons other than heavy play) and is reprinted, prices will fall, often dramatically, and will not return to previous highs. But for 99%+ of the however many tens of thousands of cards that have been printed, prices are stable to growing with potential for high burst.

I'm not so sure about Tarmogoyf's price dropping, especially if it's reprinted as a Mythic, as people have speculated. Yes, there will be more copies, but there will also be the demand from Standard. I see it more as a "Birds of Paradise" type thing where it could maintain its value for years through multiple reprintings with little to no effect on price. But I understand you used goyf just as an example. There may be a card that's not overvalued that would lose value with a reprinting that is not, for some reason, on the reserve list. I'm coming up blanks off the top of my head though.

[dontbiteitholmes]

There may be a card that's not overvalued that would lose value with a reprinting that is not, for some reason, on the reserve list. I'm coming up blanks off the top of my head though.

A lot of the cards that went up recently because of Modern are overvalued. I mean is Grove really a $20 card? Is Vesuva really a $25 card? Is a Hallowed Fountain really worth only $10 less than a Scrubland? Clique, Confidant, and Gofy might be worth the high prices they bring but everything else is bubble.

[Zolek]

I'm not so sure about Tarmogoyf's price dropping, especially if it's reprinted as a Mythic, as people have speculated. Yes, there will be more copies, but there will also be the demand from Standard. I see it more as a "Birds of Paradise" type thing where it could maintain its value for years through multiple reprintings with little to no effect on price. But I understand you used goyf just as an example. There may be a card that's not overvalued that would lose value with a reprinting that is not, for some reason, on the reserve list. I'm coming up blanks off the top of my head though.

I think its important to note that the "birds of paradise type thing" doesn't really apply anymore to rares. M10 reprint tanked the price of birds, further reprints have only dropped it further. A tarmogoyf reprint as a rare would impact the price majorly. A reprint as mythic would hurt it much less but still quite a bit.

[SpikeyMikey]

I think its important to note that the "birds of paradise type thing" doesn't really apply anymore to rares. M10 reprint tanked the price of birds, further reprints have only dropped it further. A tarmogoyf reprint as a rare would impact the price majorly. A reprint as mythic would hurt it much less but still quite a bit.

Only because Birds stopped being an autoinclude in green. There was a fundamental shift in how decks are constructed and Birds has ceased to become the best ramp spell green has. It's more a victim of power creep than anything. 3-drops are no longer the most powerful things in the game. Now it's 5-drops and 6-drops that define the midgame; they're so powerful that 3 drops are immediately obsolete as soon as one hits the board. I mean, Glissa is a pretty good creature, by 2000 standards. But Primeval Titan or even Acidic Slime makes her useless and both of those cards are heavily played. If 3 drops were still the backbone of the format, Birds would be a $10-$12 rare and Lotus Cobra would be a $5 mythic. IMO.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Except for the fact that the banned list is a swath of cards that are obviously good and will slowly come off as power levels are determined. It's better to ban and let them come off the list, than to let them all in and then start banning. They had a "Better safe than sorry" approach to it. I doubt Goyf would see a ban at all. He wasn't broken in standard anyway. He was quite good, but far from broken.

Pretty sure they're not going to significantly peel cards off of the banned list, they're obviously taking a more pro-active approach to managing it than they have with any other format. Cards like Jitte, Bitterblossom and Mental Misstep being banned confirm this idea anyway.

[Comrade]

I have paid it forward every year with the Christmas Secret Santa. If you look at the site I have sent out way more then I ever received. I think I received about $100 worth of cards at the time. I send about $100 or so worth of cards every secret Santa. Yes I do receive stuff via Secret Santa also but I always try to go above and beyond for this site. Even with legacy being dead every were within 100 miles or so around me Legacy is still my favorite format and that is becasue of this site. So STFU. And Stalk much you have been a member for 8 months and you really went that far back into the archives to read that...unless your a returning banned member.

Not really.

Secret Santa is about the only time you come out of hiding on here because everyone knows you're a scammer. You always go above and beyond to make some huge and elaborate deal about what you send out too, however it's usually chaff for the most part. So don't congratulate yourself too much there.

Also, I'd like to point out that you sign up for it with you account, your wife's account, your friend's account, and other shill accounts. As well as try to host it so you get to decide exactly who sends what to whom. So you route some of the heavy donors your way. Anyone can take 10 minutes to look through the Secret Santa records to see how you manipulate it.


P.S. Legacy if my favorite format too. I just don't love it enough to steal the cards off other players.

[Dan Turner]

Not really.

Secret Santa is about the only time you come out of hiding on here because everyone knows you're a scammer. You always go above and beyond to make some huge and elaborate deal about what you send out too, however it's usually chaff for the most part. So don't congratulate yourself too much there.

Also, I'd like to point out that you sign up for it with you account, your wife's account, your friend's account, and other shill accounts. As well as try to host it so you get to decide exactly who sends what to whom. So you route some of the heavy donors your way. Anyone can take 10 minutes to look through the Secret Santa records to see how you manipulate it.


P.S. Legacy if my favorite format too. I just don't love it enough to steal the cards off other players.

Really I hosted it 1 time, becasue I was asked to. My wife and I both play legacy the only 2 accounts on here from this part of the country (as far as I know) real easy to prove by a mod by checking IP addresses. So why shouldn't she participate. Yes I lurk a lot, I used to post almost every day but I have decided if I really could not contribute positively to a conversation I just STFU. Yes I stretched the truth some here but never to rip anyone off and 2 years of therapy and a lot of medications later I have learned it really don't matter what some piss ant living in their moms basement thinks really does not matter to me.


On a side note it is really sad that someone will go back and read most of the shit I wrote on here just to stalk me, now don't get me wrong I really love that someone is so in love with me that they will read all my post and stalk me like this.

Want to know the real me.

My name is Danny Turner

I own Turner PC Repair

www.turnerpcrepair.biz

At one time I was in the top 3 in my state for eternal.

I have 2 children aged 3 and 5.

I have been happily married for 6 years.

My wife and I are both swingers.

I have slept with 6 different women in the last year.

No they were not super models but to be honest I like fat chicks 1.) they are easy to pick up in a bar. 2.) they are not afraid to be wild in bed.

I drive a 2002 Chevy Cavalier that gets 30 MPG and can still drive smooth at 100 if I want to and handles curves like they are not there.

I can prove each of the above in a court of law and I am not hiding who I am or the shit I may have done in my past and yes I have did some really bad shit and spent time in jail over it.

So what about you tell us something.

[2Rach]

Really I hosted it 1 time, becasue I was asked to. My wife and I both play legacy the only 2 accounts on here from this part of the country (as far as I know) real easy to prove by a mod by checking IP addresses. So why shouldn't she participate. Yes I lurk a lot, I used to post almost every day but I have decided if I really could not contribute positively to a conversation I just STFU. Yes I stretched the truth some here but never to rip anyone off and 2 years of therapy and a lot of medications later I have learned it really don't matter what some piss ant living in their moms basement thinks really does not matter to me.


On a side note it is really sad that someone will go back and read most of the shit I wrote on here just to stalk me, now don't get me wrong I really love that someone is so in love with me that they will read all my post and stalk me like this.

Want to know the real me.

My name is Danny Turner

I own Turner PC Repair

www.turnerpcrepair.biz

At one time I was in the top 3 in my state for eternal.

I have 2 children aged 3 and 5.

I have been happily married for 6 years.

My wife and I are both swingers.

I have slept with 6 different women in the last year.

No they were not super models but to be honest I like fat chicks 1.) they are easy to pick up in a bar. 2.) they are not afraid to be wild in bed.

I drive a 2002 Chevy Cavalier that gets 30 MPG and can still drive smooth at 100 if I want to and handles curves like they are not there.

I can prove each of the above in a court of law and I am not hiding who I am or the shit I may have done in my past and yes I have did some really bad shit and spent time in jail over it.

So what about you tell us something.

Not sure if this'll be deleted or not, but /saved.