Double-Faced Cards

[thickasabrick]

My initial reaction to the DFCs was, "NO! You had no good reason not to do this with flip cards".

But DFCs are more exciting, and having the space for more text and art does matter. I think that with the checklist cards, Wizards has indeed done things right for making those cards work. So, after reading Mark Rosewater's article on the reasoning behind this, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

For draft, however, since there is still a problem, there is a solution. The following variant of booster draft should be allowed: whoever opens a pack gets to keep the DFC from it, in addition to the card he drafts. DFCs may not be included in decks and used in play.

There. All problems solved.

So nobody gets to play with Garruk in draft ever? Or any of the other cards with the hallmark mechanic of the set? That seems like a problem unsolved.

[Nihil Credo]

Did you read Rosewater's article? Development tried to kill the cards.

It only said that there was resistance within Development, not that Design had to fight Development for it. We'll get the full story on Friday, but I presume that Erik Lauer didn't pull a Stalin on the issue (i.e. that in the end a majority was OK with DFCs).

[Sturtzilla]

I feel real conflicted about this idea. I can't help but wonder why they didn't make flip cards that could flip back. It would accomplish the same goals of flavor and mechanics, yet leave limited, especially draft formats, unmolested. It was like they were all high and decided to flip the card about the wrong axis... "Hey guys let flip the card about the x-axis rather then the y axis! LOLZ!" It seems really clunky as far as sleeving and unsleeving when something flips. I know that, while playing, I don't want to have to take a card out the sleeve and then replace it backwards at all, more-less, multiple times over the course of a game. Although having two foiled sides is kinda neat but really only from a novelty standpoint. I just have to say that I like that they are trying to incorporate new ideas into the game, but it really seems like they could have done this a bit better.

[Guy I Don't Know]

This is like we are playing pokemon and we evolve our pokemon... I loved pokemon back in the 90s but at least they didn't print the cards with the evolved forms on the backs.

Seeing how Mayor of Avabruck could be playable in legacy alongside Tangle wire and Trinisphere, I think I will make a deck called Let's Play Pokemon!

[Ben]

In MaRo's article he did mention that Tom LaPille gave the suggestion of having Magic copying Duel Masters.
So I guess we can't put all the blames on MaRo.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

I think it looks fun, if a little messy logistically. I haven't played in about a year and a half, but I think the flavor of this set and the uniqueness of this "mechanic" will pull me back in

[dahcmai]

Another point I thought about is making a bit of conversation around here. If you have a checklist card in the deck for a card that's main deck. Where is the actual card going to be? Ah, probably in your deck box with your sideboard, right? This makes for an elegant cheating method if you see it. I have a feeling people need to start using different colored sleeves than the sideboard cards for these double cards or else you're going to get these two mixed up and some unscrupulous ones might do it on purpose.

I know if I end up using these cards in tournaments, I'll be using a different color for anything that's not being actually used in the deck and is only sitting off to the side for representation. It's just asking for a judge call. To be honest, I think I'll probably just end up flipping them in and out of the sleeve so I can just not have to play with the stupid checklist cards in the first place.

damn, this double face thing is going to be a pain. I actually like the flavor of it, but it sure has a lot of problems with it.

[Richard Cheese]

Can't wait to get penalized for forgetting to flip one back between games/rounds. Here's hoping they all suck!

Either that, or I'll just make a banding/humility/trinisphere/double face deck and call it Annoy-O-Tron.

[The Treefolk Master]

Can't wait to get penalized for forgetting to flip one back between games/rounds. Here's hoping they all suck!

Either that, or I'll just make a banding/humility/trinisphere/double face deck and call it Annoy-O-Tron.

Don't forget Illusionary mask!

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Its not the same thing than flip. A flipped card never turns back.

Also someone mentioned problems with MWS. I cant see them.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Its not the same thing than flip. A flipped card never turns back.

It would take five seconds of editing to change that and have no functioning impact on Kamigawa cards, which lack a trigger to unflip.

Also someone mentioned problems with MWS. I cant see them.

Me neither. Because they can simply put the text from the transform cards onto the flip card templates.

[KevinTrudeau]

I know if I end up using these cards in tournaments, I'll be using a different color for anything that's not being actually used in the deck and is only sitting off to the side for representation. It's just asking for a judge call. To be honest, I think I'll probably just end up flipping them in and out of the sleeve so I can just not have to play with the stupid checklist cards in the first place.

The method that makes the most sense to me is to play with proxies (in both Limited and Constructed), make it really easy to determine which card is which if you're running multiple proxies representing different cards (like by crossing out all other boxes with Sharpie or something), and bringing the actual double-faced card out of your deck box in a clear penny sleeve so you won't have to keep unsleeving and resleeving it.

The actual process of flipping won't be that bad, I'm just pissed that they had to fuck over draft like that just to make a "revolutionary" new mechanic.

[Rizso]

Don't forget Illusionary mask!

Thought you arent allowed to put a 2sided card into play with Mask or flip with Ixidron.

[Richard Cheese]

Thought you arent allowed to put a 2sided card into play with Mask or flip with Ixidron.

Annoy-O-Tron wins again! It feeds off your confusion!

[Ben]

Thought you arent allowed to put a 2sided card into play with Mask or flip with Ixidron.

The side with mana cost should be the side the card is flipped into with illusionary mask

I don't think you can "flip" to the transformed side unless you are transforimng the card by meeting the transformation trigger condition.

[rufus]

Thought you arent allowed to put a 2sided card into play with Mask or flip with Ixidron.

The latest revision actually has you playing them - so they can be countered, are affected by 3-sphere, and so on.

[KevinTrudeau]

Sample Innistrad hand:

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

It still staggers me that they created a mechanic that actually adds literally nothing new to the game's mechanics (Flip is exactly identical for all mechanical, in-game purposes), and either requires that you constantly desleeve and resleeve it and/or asks you to not actually play with the card, but with a proxy for it.

It's a dead horse at this point but it's mind-boggling to think that I apped for a job with these people and was turned down. It's like finding out your ex is fucking Homeless Joe.

[Rizso]

The latest revision actually has you playing them - so they can be countered, are affected by 3-sphere, and so on.

Thats not what I meant, you arent allowed to cast a 2sided card with the mask at all. Its not a legal play.

[Royal Ass.]

I think realistically once everyone is familiar with the flip cards, people will just use a token or some object to put on top of the card to signify that the card is "flipped." If someone really needs to read the card text you can pull it out of the sleeve, but it seems pretty reasonable to place some sort physical object on the card to show that the flipped side of the card is in play.