Double-Faced Cards

[Gui]

That doesn't mean it's not a proxy. That just means it's a proxy for a card you actually own.

Well, ok. Makes sense. Still different from the usual view of proxy, in which one print a black lotus he doesn't own to use in his deck. But ok, still a proxy.

[Hummingbird TG]

So, are there foil checklists? (else, they've just made pimping rather difficult)

[Gheizen64]

Man the more i think about it, the more i think how shitty this design is. They did this basically only to have two card images, because there were an infinite way of doing this without breaking one of the basic rule of the game. The blue creature is a fucking leveler. It's a flip card for no reason. As a leveler it would even have LESS LINES OF TEXT. The green creatures have all a lot of basically unnecessary and badly designed abilities only for the sake of justifying the flip mechanic (see how much space it free out!). Dear god. Not usable in casual, need special sleeves for tournament play, basically allow sanctioned proxies in the game, make for easier cheating, give out information since you have a deck with more cards that it should if you play with checklists, sigh.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

So go argue on Twitter. I'd watch!

Twitter is for lameos.

[SpikeyMikey]

Man the more i think about it, the more i think how shitty this design is. They did this basically only to have two card images, because there were an infinite way of doing this without breaking one of the basic rule of the game. The blue creature is a fucking leveler. It's a flip card for no reason. As a leveler it would even have LESS LINES OF TEXT. The green creatures have all a lot of basically unnecessary and badly designed abilities only for the sake of justifying the flip mechanic (see how much space it free out!). Dear god. Not usable in casual, need special sleeves for tournament play, basically allow sanctioned proxies in the game, make for easier cheating, give out information since you have a deck with more cards that it should if you play with checklists, sigh.

Well, it's strictly superior to a level creature; level has to be done at sorcery speed. The blue creature will be quite playable in Standard as an early blocker and late game win-con. Expect it to be on par with say Grave Titan.

However, that doesn't change the fact that a flip card would've fit the needs perfectly, allowed them to have their two artworks and wouldn't have required them to do something as retarded as a double card.

[KevinTrudeau]

MaRo ends his article with:

"Until then, may you know the joy of breaking a taboo."

Since it seems like breaking a taboo of some sort is commonplace among sets that he's part of the design team, isn't taboo-breaking not so taboo anymore? Also, this just pretty much confirms that Transform wasn't made with the betterment of the game in mind as the design team's number one goal. Goddammit Rosewater. I expected better from you, Garfield.

[rufus]

Well, it's strictly superior to a level creature; level has to be done at sorcery speed. The blue creature will be quite playable in Standard as an early blocker and late game win-con. Expect it to be on par with say Grave Titan.

The activation criteria are different, and it goes up and down, and ... Mostly, I'd say, it's different than level up. Don't get me started on how lame it was to have every level up cost be just mana. Besides (gratuitously) breaking the card back, there's nothing particularly bad about the transform mechanic....also nothing particularly innovative.

[Aggro_zombies]

MaRo ends his article with:

"Until then, may you know the joy of breaking a taboo."

Since it seems like breaking a taboo of some sort is commonplace among sets that he's part of the design team, isn't taboo-breaking not so taboo anymore? Also, this just pretty much confirms that Transform wasn't made with the betterment of the game in mind as the design team's number one goal. Goddammit Rosewater.

You realize that this is the guy who thought poison was a good thing to bring back, right? Poison, the mechanic whose central premise is being a second life total that's half the size of your first one and counts up instead of down?

[quadibloc]

My initial reaction to the DFCs was, "NO! You had no good reason not to do this with flip cards".

But DFCs are more exciting, and having the space for more text and art does matter. I think that with the checklist cards, Wizards has indeed done things right for making those cards work. So, after reading Mark Rosewater's article on the reasoning behind this, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

For draft, however, since there is still a problem, there is a solution. The following variant of booster draft should be allowed: whoever opens a pack gets to keep the DFC from it, in addition to the card he drafts. DFCs may not be included in decks and used in play.

There. All problems solved.

[Gheizen64]

My initial reaction to the DFCs was, "NO! You had no good reason not to do this with flip cards".

But DFCs are more exciting, and having the space for more text and art does matter. I think that with the checklist cards, Wizards has indeed done things right for making those cards work. So, after reading Mark Rosewater's article on the reasoning behind this, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

For draft, however, since there is still a problem, there is a solution. The following variant of booster draft should be allowed: whoever opens a pack gets to keep the DFC from it, in addition to the card he drafts. DFCs may not be included in decks and used in play.

There. All problems solved.

All problem solved how? Wouldn't someone have less card then? Also it would give a disadvantage to one who draft in the sense he opened a 14 card booster. It's not like you always have 1 DFC for booster.

[Cire]

All problem solved how? Wouldn't someone have less card then? Also it would give a disadvantage to one who draft in the sense he opened a 14 card booster. It's not like you always have 1 DFC for booster.

I thought you do?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

None of the cards spoiled so far needed to be double-faced for text space reasons. Garruk probably will be but that's a terrible reason, Planeswalkers are complex enough without slapping another incredibly complex mechanic onto them. Like whatever the problems with flip cards people had, there's no way to argue that Nezumi Graverobber or Budoka Gardener or Erayo weren't complex cards.

[DrJones]

They actually play much better than flip cards once they're in play, it's just that they are incredibly clunky while they're not in the battlefield. I think they should have went with overlay from your sideboard or a new game zone, because the current implementation asks a lot for some players to enjoy.

Then again, I think tokens and counters already ask a lot for the players and they seem to enjoy it, so you never know. Time with tell if it as well received as morph, or like coin flipping and dice throwing.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

All problem solved how? Wouldn't someone have less card then? Also it would give a disadvantage to one who draft in the sense he opened a 14 card booster. It's not like you always have 1 DFC for booster.

Yes you do, there is one in every pack. It takes the place of a common, so you could technically get 3 rares in one pack.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Shouldn't we assume they have planned somehow for drafts though? No idea what the solution might be(although "guy who opens pack always takes DFC" sounds possible) but it's not like they didn't have this same discussion at some point.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

Shouldn't we assume they have planned somehow for drafts though? No idea what the solution might be(although "guy who opens pack always takes DFC" sounds possible) but it's not like they didn't have this same discussion at some point.

From the article linked on the first page.

Drafting with Double-Faced Cards

Due to their unique nature, double-faced cards work differently from other cards in Booster Draft.

During a booster draft, double-faced cards are open information that players are neither penalized for revealing nor required to conceal. Players may reveal either face of a double-faced card to other drafters during the draft. A player may take reasonable steps to conceal the identity of a double-faced card if he or she wishes, but is not required to do so. However, players must still remain seated during the draft.

As before, the faces of single-faced Magic cards are not open information, and revealing them or attempting to see them will result in penalties.

As of the release of Innistrad, a player may place a newly drafted card anywhere on or in his or her pile of drafted cards. This is true of all cards, not only double-faced cards or in drafts that include double-faced cards. If desired, a player may start his or her pile of drafted cards with a basic land or checklist card and put any drafted double-faced cards underneath it.

[Nihil Credo]

The one thing that eases my concerns about Innistrad Booster Draft is that it presumably did manage to gain the approval of Development draft tables with about a thousand Pro Points between them.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The one thing that eases my concerns about Innistrad Booster Draft is that it presumably did manage to gain the approval of Development draft tables with about a thousand Pro Points between them.

Did you read Rosewater's article? Development tried to kill the cards.

[Ben]

I think they should print tokens for the "back side" of those double cards, even that this mechanic is pretty retarded. I'd much rather they stick with the old flip mechanic.

[GGoober]

This has made me retract the statement that "R&D has done a fantastic job in bringing new ideas/cards/mechanics in recent years, if you take a look at how the game is recently v.s. a few years back, it amazes me how they never run out of ideas to grow and expand the game".

So there you go, WotC, worst design ever. I know you don't want to recycle the concept of 'flip' cards from Kamigawa, but what you've done here isn't really 'being creative and breaking traditions', it's called 'finding excuses to your bad design because you think you have a cool idea and really want it implemented but we all know it blows, hard'.

Alright, aside from the rant, I just want to add that Maro sucks, maybe that's because he's a green creature that's overcosted.