[Deck] Merfolk

[KobeBryan]

You can pay the instead of wasting the Snare

oh duh. wasn't thinking about the mana cost. assumed it was 2

[NihilObstat]

oh duh. wasn't thinking about the mana cost. assumed it was 2

Hehehehe, OMG, I love MTG!!! :-)

[Einherjer]

Mental Misstep is gone.

What are we gonna do with the new slots?

Greetings

[KobeBryan]

Mental Misstep is gone.

What are we gonna do with the new slots?

Greetings

probably 2 spell pierces and something.

My board is much better now. I don't have to worry too much about stupid stoneblade decks.

But back to elves and goblins, which I would need Sword of plowshares for. Maybe cursed totem and some hibernations in the board and that "all creatures you control gets protection from red"

[crovakiet]

Mental Misstep is gone.

What are we gonna do with the new slots?

Greetings

If anything, there should be a debate now for whether Standstill is worth putting back in. Mental Misstep on a Vial pretty much made Standstill relatively worthless as putting a Standstill on the third turn or later was not nearly as powerful as one on the 2nd turn with a threat out(Vial or otherwise). Now one of Merfolk's most powerful play(s) is back considering Misstep is gone.

[vinvin]

First of all, I'd like to say hi to you people as this is my first time posting here.
*Although I'm not unfamiliar with the forum as I frequently read the posts and topics*

I'm fairly new in playing merfolk. (Used to play BW discard and still playing zoo)
^ thus I need some revelations from the pros here

I did some readings through this thread, but reading the whole 277 pages would definitely be devastating.

Some questions: (again, sorry if my questions was discussed somewhere in the thread, like page ** or page 1**, honestly I didn't read it that much)

1. Which kind of opening hand is a keeper and which is not ?

2. Gameplay strategies AND sideboarding strategies for vsing specific decks:
a. Aggro elf
b. GWx maverick
c. Zoo
d. UWx stoneblade
e. TA
f. BW stoneblade

3. I have access to UG sea, do you think it's worth it to splash black for perish and thoughtseize, or even Dark Confidant ? >>> http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=2007&d=214230 (there's an aggro elf player and GW maverick player in my meta and I'm always having trouble getting paired with them)

4. (added) HOLY CRAP MM IS BANNED o.O

Sorry if I have sooo many questions. Cheeeeers mate

[Lemnear]

@Avatar of Shadow
now I understand your position to ban misstep being able to counter that life-card spell pierce xP


Back to topic: I doubt standstill is needed. Pierce will be much more important with Past in Flames TES and snapcaster powered SpiralTide

[RainbowPenguin]

Mental Misstep is gone.

What are we gonna do with the new slots?

Greetings

Lots of stuff. Thats the beauty of this banning, suddenly all kinds of decks get four free open slots (well, sorta). Welcome to diversity. Welcome to legacy.

Some possibilites: 16 lord merfolk. Spell pierce. Stifle. Standstill. splash for (more) removal. A little extra of everything. Actual choice probably going to depend on your meta.

[jdsnider187]

This list is based solely on theory and not at all on playtesting, but I did play Merfolk (and play it well, mind you) for almost two years before switching to Stoneblade.

My post-bannings Fish list:

Mainboard:

Creatures: (25)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejery
2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner

Spells: (14)
4 Aether Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce

Lands: (21)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
5 Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Perish/Nature's Ruin
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Misdirection
3 Dismember
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Hydroblast

Engineered Plague may be necessary for the SB of the Ub version if Goblins make a large resurgence, which it most certainly will considering that for some reason people still love that deck.

Another option is to splash red with Volcanic Island and run Grim Lavamancers main deck over Phantasmal Image with REB/Pyroblast and Lightning Bolt in the sideboard if necessary. While I like the idea of the red splash in this deck i don't feel as though there are enough ways to fill your graveyard (other than relying on your opponent to kill your creatures) in order to fuel the Lavamancer, which would be the main reason to include the red splash in the first place.

I've seen a lot of talk about running a Uw version with Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile and just to tell you right now, in a deck that relies heavily on the combination of Daze, Spell Pierce, and Wasteland in order to outmaneuver the opponent, you DO NOT want to be running PtE. StP however, while a great removal spell, simply gives your opponent life which equates to more time to find a way to wipe your board. Merfolk is looking to end the game as quickly as possible in before the opponent can stabilize, and while the life loss from Dismember does hurt, it fits the goal of the deck much better and doesn't give your opponent and extra draw step like StP often will. Playing white in the deck however does give some good SB answers for many decks, such as Meddling Mage for Combo decks and Disenchant effects for Stoneblade and Countertop/Thopter if that deck decides to come back and drop a Moat in front of your fish, as well as being an answer for their namesake combos.

If you decide to stick to the Mono U version of this deck however, I am almost 95% sure that you'll want at least 2 if not 3 copies of Back to Basics in your Sideboard for decks like Zoo, Aggro Loam, Team America, and NO RUG, as well as Lands (if it happens to make a comeback).

I feel as though with Goblins and Zoo both being more viable now, due to misstep's banning, that Standstill is TOO SLOW for the format and that you'll never really have a lot of good chances to stick it when the board is in your favor. Stifle is also not something that I would really want to run in the deck anymore either (though that fad passed a long while ago).

I think Merfolk's standby of play dudes, protect said dudes, and islandwalk all over the control decks is where you really want to be maindeck now with many people attempting to bring Counterbalance back and with Stoneblade still being a strong deck choice (yes, even without misstep).

[RainbowPenguin]

Regarding Lavamancer, filling you graveyard is not the only problem. Just keeping a source of red mana in play in a format full of wastelands is going to be difficult at times.

I played 'Folk for a while before switching to stoneblade too, but if I go back, I think Stifle would be one of the first things I would try out again. Something like this:

Mainboard:

Creatures: (23)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejery
2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner

Spells: (16)
4 Æther Vial
1 Dismember
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle

Lands: (21)
13 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Spell Pierce (or perhaps 2 + 1 Daze)
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Dismember
2 Submerge
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
3 Null Rod (I never liked the affinity matchup)

Stifle isn't just for fetchlands, it is pretty good against goblins, and it should be good against stoneforge mystic too. I can't say I am sure that it is better than the go for the throat approach, but I like having options, and stifle provides that.

[Einherjer]

. Actual choice probably going to depend on your meta.

If my meta is: Maverick, BW Stoneblade, CounterTop, HighTide, Junk, GOblins, Aluren, Stiflenought, Affinity and Dredge? What would you think?
Ill be working on my new list NOW - so when i come back ill post this list *Leaving to table now* :P

Greetings

[KobeBryan]

The beauty of this ban is that now I can REALLY splash white and go an all out utility board with enlightened tutor.

[KobeBryan]

This is what i came up with. The core of fish remains the same, but the sideboard cards help improve the matchups we have done very poorly against, ie. lots of elves, goblins, and zoo.



Lands (21)
5 Island
4 Mutavault
3 Wasteland
3 Tundra
3 Flooded Strand
2 marshflat
1 Plains

Creatures
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merrow Reejerey
3 Coralhelm Commander
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Phantasmal Image

Counters
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce

Other
4 AEther Vial
3 Swords to Plowshares


Sideboard
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 tormod's crypt
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Submerge
1 Ghostly Prison
1 null rod
1 Cursed Totem
1 Chill

I'm not too sure on the surgical extractions. I might actually take it out and use 1. Tormod's crypt, and another card. Any suggestions would help.

[RainbowPenguin]

I believe the following should be considered, for all practical purposes, mandatory in Merfolk:

Lands:
12-13 Island, either basic or dual, or fetches that get them. Perhaps more. I don't think I would ever go below 13 myself.
4 Mutavault. Extra manlands can be added.
4 Wasteland.

Creatures:
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander

Others:
4 Æther Vial
3-4 Force of Will
3-4 Daze
(3-4 MM would be here too, except, well..)

The rest are more debateable, but until actual upgrades to these cards are printed, if they don't cut it, merfolk (the deck) probably isn't good enough. So please don't go below these numbers.

[KobeBryan]

I believe the following should be considered, for all practical purposes, mandatory in Merfolk:

Lands:
12-13 Island, either basic or dual, or fetches that get them. Perhaps more. I don't think I would ever go below 13 myself.
4 Mutavault. Extra manlands can be added.
4 Wasteland.

Creatures:
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander

Others:
4 Æther Vial
3-4 Force of Will
3-4 Daze
(3-4 MM would be here too, except, well..)

The rest are more debateable, but until actual upgrades to these cards are printed, if they don't cut it, merfolk (the deck) probably isn't good enough. So please don't go below these numbers.

I have to disagree that you don't need 4 coralhelms. He is a 3 of. He is not an instant lord and usually eats up your mana.

[Einherjer]

I was thinking of Vedalken Shackles for lategame option, when you cant get trough the wall of creatures the enemy build up...
What ya think of it?

[RainbowPenguin]

I have to disagree that you don't need 4 coralhelms. He is a 3 of. He is not an instant lord and usually eats up your mana.

.. And when he does, he gets Awesome. Regarding your sideboard, give it a try, see if it gets there. I think it makes you too reliant on access to white mana, since if you tutor for a white card, your opponent will know that, and likely waste or port your white source if possible. 7 white sources also seems far too low. At least switch a few more basic islands for fetches.

[RainbowPenguin]

If my meta is: Maverick, BW Stoneblade, CounterTop, HighTide, Junk, GOblins, Aluren, Stiflenought, Affinity and Dredge? What would you think?
Ill be working on my new list NOW - so when i come back ill post this list *Leaving to table now* :P

Greetings

The easy ones should be CounterTop, High Tide, Aluren (probably, I have never played against that deck though) and Stiflenought. Dredge needs 3-4 hate cards, depending on your maindeck, perhaps more if the dredge player is good. A resolved stoneforge mystic out of a deck that cannot be islandwalked is going to be problematic, so a splash for removal or else running 2-3 Dismember might be a good idea. It will be nice to have some removal against goblins, too. Affinity, if they have a good draw, can be very difficult to handle, but that is probably best adressed with sideboard cards, such as null rod or energy flux.

[KobeBryan]

.. And when he does, he gets Awesome. Regarding your sideboard, give it a try, see if it gets there. I think it makes you too reliant on access to white mana, since if you tutor for a white card, your opponent will know that, and likely waste or port your white source if possible. 7 white sources also seems far too low. At least switch a few more basic islands for fetches.

Never said he wasn't awesome. But the rule is a 4 of means you want it in your opening hand. 3 of means you want to see it in the game, and so forth.

When I do have coralhelm commander in my opening hand, I tend to not cast it because 1. I can do better things on turns 1-4, such as dropping vial, dropping curse catcher, dropping LOA, dropping phatasmal image, dropping a merrow, dropping silvergill.

So coralhelm really gets good at the mid range game, when I can draw him at a 3 of.

Your argument, you can vial him in at turn 2 and pump him up at your turn. The problem with that is, again, I rather not care for a 3/3 flyer, but rather drop another silver gill, or a LOA on that turn.

[Curby]

Back when there wasn't room in the deck for Kira due to MM, I was thinking of 4 Image 4 Coralhelm 2 Reejerey to keep my Vial at 2 as much as possible. Now that Kira is going back to help against the un-Misstep-able StP and other cheap removal, Vial at 3 becomes more viable, so I'm thinking of adding Reejery at the expense of Coralhelm again.

Note that the loss of MM also means that we'll be replacing it with cards that most likely cost mana, which is addition strain on our mana supply. In short, the ability to pump Coralhelm will now be less certain, which once again makes Reejerey a better bet.