[Deck] Pox

[jin]

I think if I had the good fortune of owning entombs I would just play reanimator.

No, it's true.. although you need Underground Sea and FOW as well..

How has the Missteps been working out for you Bowvamp?

Not an option now.

[bowvamp]

Man I'm sad to see misstep go. I guess this might mean a resurgence of swarm based creature decks. If this happens I may or may not continue developing the deck (depending on how well Liliana fights these decks). Luckily, Jace TMS will probably be less of an issue now.

-4 Thoughtseize
+4 Inquisition of Kozilek
-2 Mental Misstep
+2 Disfigure

I'll see if it's more combo or aggro soon enough I guess.

[Koby]

Man I'm sad to see misstep go. I guess this might mean a resurgence of swarm based creature decks. If this happens I may or may not continue developing the deck (depending on how well Liliana fights these decks). Luckily, Jace TMS will probably be less of an issue now.

-4 Thoughtseize
+4 Inquisition of Kozilek
-2 Mental Misstep
+2 Disfigure

I'll see if it's more combo or aggro soon enough I guess.

Swarm based strategies can be answered with Necroplasm (not so hot vs creature removal), Powder Keg, and Ratchet Bomb. I'll be rocking the Bombs for now, until my testing reveals that I need stronger sweepers.

[iamfrightenedtoo]

I knew this was coming. Wizards of the Coast has a favorite child. its name is Zoo, coming in just a hair behind zoo is blue control splashed with any color.

Mental Misstep made mono colored decks be able to keep up, actually Misstep made every deck keep up.

it is a shame its gone.

WOTC isnt even being bashful about their prejudice against mono colored decks anymore.

[clavio]

I don't know, I'm pretty excited about it being banned wrt pox. Thoughtseize/duress/inquisition are very important cards for the deck so I pretty much shelved it once mm hit the fan. Also the rack, a card that seems to be always underrated that is very solid against zoo. Not sure if it's enough to get me back to developing pox (stifling fetchlands seems super good w/mm gone), but I certainly might.

[jin]

I knew this was coming. Wizards of the Coast has a favorite child. its name is Zoo, coming in just a hair behind zoo is blue control splashed with any color.

Mental Misstep made mono colored decks be able to keep up, actually Misstep made every deck keep up.

it is a shame its gone.

WOTC isnt even being bashful about their prejudice against mono colored decks anymore.

Sorry, I don't understand your entire post. Zoo has not really gained in power since Knight of the Reliquary. I think if anything, Wizard of the Coast's favourite child is blue. Zoo actually adds diversity to the metagame because it is the only dedicated aggro deck.

Mental Misstep also didn't really help mono colour decks at all. If you noticed, there has been no mono colour decks after misstep came about. Even Merfolk (the once most popular mono coloured BLUE deck) had been dwindling in numbers.

I don't know, I'm pretty excited about it being banned wrt pox. Thoughtseize/duress/inquisition are very important cards for the deck so I pretty much shelved it once mm hit the fan. Also the rack, a card that seems to be always underrated that is very solid against zoo. Not sure if it's enough to get me back to developing pox (stifling fetchlands seems super good w/mm gone), but I certainly might.

Agreed, Misstep slowing down the format made it somewhat boring.

Swarm based strategies can be answered with Necroplasm (not so hot vs creature removal), Powder Keg, and Ratchet Bomb. I'll be rocking the Bombs for now, until my testing reveals that I need stronger sweepers.

I'm thinking Damnation is just better, if you want a more control feel.

[jin]

Just thought of something and felt like it deserved a new post. What do you guys think about Buried Ooze combo from ken adams in the Pox shell? Could this be our oops, I won factor?

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=39296

[Richard Cheese]

Just thought of something and felt like it deserved a new post. What do you guys think about Buried Ooze combo from ken adams in the Pox shell? Could this be our oops, I won factor?

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=39296

You would need to run a lot of cards to support it, and even then it would be way less reliable than that list.

I'm actually pretty sad to see Misstep go, not for the format, but for this deck specifically. It was working really well in the list I was testing. Currently I'm trying Moxes to see if a bit of extra early speed helps to make up for the lack of control, but I may just go with some combination of Geth's Verdict and Thoughtseize or IoK.

Also what swarm-based strategies are people referring to? Goblins? Black Sun's Zenith and E. Plague are both pretty good against the green guys, although I don't really expect it to make that much of a comeback.

[bowvamp]

Agreed with Richard Cheese. What is everyone's thought on Tribute to Hunger? It's just like edict, except with the added life gain. I think it's perfect for Merfolk/Zoo, but is pretty bad vs. Goblins.
Why does the extra mana not matter vs. Merfolk, Zoo, or Goblins? Because it's probably going to be your last resort (besides Pox). It could just give you that needed extra turn. I don't know if this theory is watertight, but it's cool to say the least. As for the new Disfigure-style enchant creature, well it's sorcery speed. So no good.

[jin]

You would need to run a lot of cards to support it, and even then it would be way less reliable than that list.

Maybe 4 buried alive and the 3 creatures from what I see.. Reanimate would help but doesn't seem necessary.

[bowvamp]

lol Reanimate is most definitely necessary. How else do you get your ooze to play? Remember, this is a 2 card combo (requires set up). It's 11 win-con cards, and no real synergy w/ pox.

[jin]

lol Reanimate is most definitely necessary. How else do you get your ooze to play? Remember, this is a 2 card combo (requires set up). It's 11 win-con cards, and no real synergy w/ pox.

it's a black creature.

the synergy comes from being able to discard pieces of the combo without buried alive. buried alive can be a tutor we utilize, but I haven't loooked into it.

[bowvamp]

Ok, so you can cast it. It's still a 1-of in your deck, that means that the limiting reactant (to use chem terms) for your reaction (combo) is 1 card out of 60? Are the 3 creatures devourer triskelion ranger? In that case, you still have 11 cards MD devoted to your "oops I win". Not to mention, I hate that phrase as there's no such thing as "oops I win". It's like combo is a color that's splash-able in every deck and will win you games by accident. Also Tribute to Hunger anybody?

[iamfrightenedtoo]

what is the point of running pox with the ooze combo?
this is not logical. i say this now, and a month ago when i started to build the very deck.
the fact is, pox does not slow down your opponent. it makes everything equal.
the ooze combo is instant, when it happens it happens. --instant in this case, is not the type of spell. there is no reason to speed up your potential death with pox.

pox is not a control card. it is a means of dealing a substantial amount of damage, while disrupting. ive never gotten rid of more than two lands and creatures with a pox, and they get to choose them. pox is a life loss card. the land creatures and land are a red herring.

the win condition doesn't need to be an infinite combo. it does not make sense.

[jin]

Ok, so you can cast it. It's still a 1-of in your deck, that means that the limiting reactant (to use chem terms) for your reaction (combo) is 1 card out of 60? Are the 3 creatures devourer triskelion ranger? In that case, you still have 11 cards MD devoted to your "oops I win". Not to mention, I hate that phrase as there's no such thing as "oops I win". It's like combo is a color that's splash-able in every deck and will win you games by accident. Also Tribute to Hunger anybody?

If I have all of the answers, I wouldn't be discussing it with you. I would have taken it to SCG already. The fact of the matter is, it is a relevant and viable combo in this deck.

It doesn't matter if you don't like it. Whether you like it or hate it doesn't change the fact that it is what it is - a splashable combo in this deck (much like painter's grindstone in The Mighty Quinn). If you have any grasp of other decks, you would know this to be true. Vampire Hexmage and Dark Depths is another example. The fact is, Ooze-combo has some noticeable synergies with the deck being able to take advantage of discarding. It makes the Pox effects asymmetrical.

what is the point of running pox with the ooze combo?
this is not logical. i say this now, and a month ago when i started to build the very deck.
the fact is, pox does not slow down your opponent. it makes everything equal.
the ooze combo is instant, when it happens it happens. --instant in this case, is not the type of spell. there is no reason to speed up your potential death with pox.

pox is not a control card. it is a means of dealing a substantial amount of damage, while disrupting. ive never gotten rid of more than two lands and creatures with a pox, and they get to choose them. pox is a life loss card. the land creatures and land are a red herring.

the win condition doesn't need to be an infinite combo. it does not make sense.

The problem is other decks can take advantage of the life loss better than you. If you are using Pox as a damage dealer, you should splash red and play some Lightning Bolts, because most Pox lists I've seen cannot capitalize on the Pox effect afterwards.

I never said Pox isn't symmetrical. The point of playing the deck is that you know it's coming, so you can make it more favourable for you by playing cards that recur or cards that can be used from the 'yard. Necrotic Ooze and his buddies is the asymmetry I'm talking about.

[bowvamp]

Ok jin. I never called it a splashable combo. There is no such thing. The synergy you speak of is really just a figment of your imagination. A single buried alive does what 3 pox effects that are perfectly timed for "synergy" not disruption do. Basically, the synergy isn't there because the cards aren't useful in your hand, and are only useful when the entire combo is assembled. Painter Grindstone in The Quinn is really not a "splashed combo". The deck uses StP to protect itself which means that typical creature methods aren't synergistic with its spells. A splashed combo like you're talking about is basically only there for "oops I win" factor. If you really want to, just make the deck irl and win a major scg tourney.

@iamfrightenedtoo I doubt you said what I just read (or at least meant to have said). Pox takes 2 lands if your opponent has 4 or more, and previously you were skeptical of my ability to keep opponents to 3 or less.

[iamfrightenedtoo]

im going to touch on a few points here.
splashing red with Pox is something i have been trying for a while it seems to be the perfect fit.
it is not. i dont know why, but it never works out the way it seems it would on paper.

and about pox only getting two lands. i meant that. i said i have only gotten two lands at max. its fun to get that many, but it does leave them with two, with all the draw in the Meta game with blue, it is way to easy for an opponent to get back to where they were.

it would almost be worth it to run underworld dreams. it is expensive to cast for what it does, but so may decks rely on drawing cards. just a thought, not worth it, it has never been,

[lyracian]

The fact of the matter is, it is a relevant and viable combo in this deck.

I do not see it being either of these in a Pox deck. Neither of the artifact creatures that you need to give Ooze the powers of help a Pox deck win so they are just dead cards if you draw them. That deck is built around having four black mana to play Buried Alive - Reanimate; remove 20 counters from Triskelion, I win.

If you want to build a 'better' Ooze deck I would go with the standard Blue/Black; support the combo with countermagic and discard so your opponent can not stop it.

[bowvamp]

Underworld Dreams is interesting, but also very slow. At least it's consistent I guess. We don't really have anything to make the opponent draw.

The reason why burn and red, etc might seem good in pox is because of the life loss nature of the card. But look closer. You'll see that pox tends to negate points of damage, and actually works towards BALANCING the life totals. Let's say I do 1 damage to you.
1st Pox 13 - 12
2nd Pox 8 - 8
See what just happened? My damage got removed by pox. Let's see what happens when we cast lightning bolt.
1st Pox 13 - 11 (minus 1 damage already)
2nd Pox 8 - 7 (minus another damage)
3rd Pox 5 - 4
4th Pox 3 - 2
5th Pox 2 - 1
6th Pox 1 - 0
This example disproves the idea of pox being able to negate damage completely, yet also shows that the "relative healing"(tm)(jk jk) effects of Pox actually scale with damage.

For any of you using the Green or White builds, I'd like your input on Riftstone Portal. I have a couple white hatebears and was thinking of making a white splash version of my list.

[Koby]

Sun Droplet is a nice way to break the life loss symmetry of Pox, but is terrible in almost every other application. It's somewhat useful against burn, but not reliable in any fashion.