The other thing about batterskull though is that it's hitting you on turn 4. Without misstep they will not have the pressure and countermagic to stop you from just going nuts on turn 2 or 3. Clique can be played around and recurring doesn't happen often unless they get a really good hand as most stoneblade decks only run 1 karakas. I don't think stoneblade will be a problem at all for TES once the misstep ban takes place. Also, going off with a DR or silenced igg is the only time the 4 life can be relevant, and usually it isn't off the DR. With 2 ad nauseams maindeck I have been hitting more consistent DR wins lately and really like it.
They can't both rush batterskull and have recurring clique and have enough countermagic to bust through a duress/silence, reasonably. Even if they do, you still can beat them. Sometimes you just gotta man up and go for it.Originally Posted by thefringthing
Matt Bevenour in real life
@Bryant and others:
Did you ever tested one Wheel of Fate as a SB slot for a heavy BGW metagame?Sometimes I found it is more dificult to beat a Seize+Hymn+KotR/Waste+Deed than a wall of counters.
Super Bizarros Team.
HUEHUEHUE BRBRBR. VIVA DILMA!!! EM NOME DE JESUS CRISTO!
No love for Xantid Swarm in the sideboard these days? Also, has anyone tried Flusterstorm?
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Yeah, Rock and TA are both quite tough match ups. Generally, my plan is this:
play artifact mana.. draw.. go.. draw.. go.. ad nauseam.
But it doesn't always work as a fast clock can surely destroy you..
Spellstutter Sprite and Vendilion Clique trump Xantid Swarm. Also Merfolk runs Dismember now...
AJ Kerrigan and Ari Lax has some premium stuff for us in SCG. They discussed Past in Flames but no actual decklist yet. ANd off course, Ari Lax is biased for UB AnT, while AJ K really loves TES. Fyi
Concerning Amsterdam, if I'd want to prepare for mirrors, are there any awesome techy cards I should be using? I've been considering Scattershot (but that's too gimmicky BY FAR) or just going for the 5c version since Chants are awesome (since I usually prefer UBR and discard).
Really guys? This thread has really gone to shit.
Flusterstorm has been discussed, please read the last few pages before posting.
Legacy does have Counterbalance, Jace, Vendillion Clique, Spellstutter Sprite, Snapcaster Mage, and other things that may trouble us. Instead of playing a conditional Spellpierce because it's a cute trick, play something that's actually useful and relevant such as Pyroblast.
Pyroblast has the benefit of never stopping you from becoming Hellbent too, which does matter if you've ever actually played the deck.
If people have questions about the decklist, read the opening post. I can't believe how many PM's I say this in every week, it's somewhere between 8-12. "Hey Bryant, sorry to bother you, I know you update the opening post with every new decklist you have. But could you just send me yours? KTHXBYE."
As for the guy who said my sideboarding strategies are outdated, I don't update the entire thing when I update the decklist. You'll have to figure out somethings on your own.
Last edited by Bryant Cook; 09-28-2011 at 08:35 PM.
Mirrors really depend on disruption. If you want to have the edge, you want Chants. A card that actually helps a ton and costs you only 1 SB slot, is a second AdN. Many lists can't really beat EoT AdN, and it's going to be the best card you can draw.
Extra AdN also has the upside of being boardable in other matchups I guess.
"Part of me belives that Barrin taught me meditation simply to shut me up."
-Ertai, wizard adept
http://solidarityprimer.proboards85.com/index.cgi
Hmmm... You can use the counter spell from the commander. The U cc that counter with storm effect too. ^_^ Other than that, I cannot think of any other card (except for chants & silences).Originally Posted by JeroenC
Concerning Amsterdam, if I'd want to prepare for mirrors, are there any awesome techy cards I should be using?
TJB
http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^
TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)
UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)
Flusterstorm seems horrible. I already despise the akward situations that Pyroblast brings up concering Hellbent or cracking LED's.
With that said Xantid Swarms are still perfectly good options. Just because control decks run removal doesn't mean they are going to side it in, especially when they don't know if have Swarm or not.
@Bryant: I know you have expoused your hate over Pyroclasm before, sticking to the claim that Grapeshot is much better (And I agree, Grape>Pyro in each and every way), but I have seen that you run x2 Deathmark in your latest lists, presumably to fight hate bears. Woudn't Pyro fill this role a lot better? In other words, Grapeshot>Pyroclasm>Deathmark?
Also do you ever find yourself in situations where a land got Wasted, and you have a Gemstone Mines that is quickly depleting? At the same time it sucks when City of Brass becomes inactive because of a low life total. What do you think of a 3/3 split between the rainbow lands?
That's the role of diminishing returns; it's a good wish target against discard since all you generally need is one ritual, one LED, and a burning wish to negate all the discard they've drawn. Wheel of fate is bad and if they do backup their discard with a fast clock wheel of fate can do absolutely nothing due to you dying before you actually cast the spell. And the SB is incredibly tight as well.
I'm fine with merfolk dismembering a xantid swarm. That just add's 2 storm count basically making it very possible to play through their soft counters to just burning wish to tendrils them out without needing AdN or any real engine.
If you want an edge in the mirror pack more silence effects in the board; silence effects are the best cards in storm combo mirrors in my experience at least tendrils based storm combo mirrors.
I concur with Bryant. Flusterstorm isn't needed in here. Pyroblast is simply better. And to those people pestering Bryant about the decklist; read the OP. It isn't hard. I agree also with the SBing strategies/MUs section; if you can't figure out what should get boarded in and what should get boarded out, go play a different deck. It's pretty easy to figure out the boarding strategies and if you actually read the thread you'll see what's getting subbed in and out. A few pages ago Bryant openly stated he was replacing pyroblast with defense grid so those occupy the same SB slots so board accordingly at least for the next 2 days before Oct. 1st rolls around and we don't have to deal with misstep anymore.
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All flavors of storm combo
Well no Legacy doesn't have Counterbalance anymore. Jace is way too slow to be a problem.
Spellstutter Sprite sucks hard, only blue cards I see which may be good against TES are Clique and Snapcaster Mage.
And those annoying Creatures tend to get Thougthseized out. So choosing to hit discard spells over bad blue spells is not especially ridiculous. But maybe I can say that because I don't have a shitty manabase and I play Thoughtseize over Chant.
Sideboarded Telemin Performance (only 1)
No, it isn't worth it
Matt Bevenour in real life
I prefer to play Xantid in spurts, you don't want to play it all the time because people will prepare for it. Ideally it'd be great all the time but it just isn't, people have multiple ways of answering the bug. Even Merfolk does now between Jitte, Dismember, and Gut Shot. It's just not the right time for Xantid.
I run two Deathmark because I board them in, I don't want the inconsistencies of 1 and 1. I've also had to kill Teegs with Swords on them before, it's not uncommon for those decks to play Swords. It's not a big deal, if someone wants 'Clasm over the second Deathmark, let them.
Life total is more important than counters on Gemstones.
Out comes the troll from under the bridge.
With Mental Misstep being banned many players are looking at Counterbalance, even if it's numbers had disappeared before Misstep. People are going to try to force Counterbalance within the next few months which is one of the reasons why Pyroblast is better Flusterstorm. Jace can be an issue, it's a win condition that disrupts us as a combo deck. It doesn't matter completely if it's slow, that's what control decks do. They slow us down.
Look at Starcitygames top 8 decks, if Spellstutters "suck hard" it probably won't be in any of the U/x decks right? I'm a person who looks at numbers and present trends in the metagame. They've been played within the last few months to answer Hive Mind decks, they're also splash damage against us. I wouldn't be shocked if we see lists playing them in the former misstep slots.
Thoughtseizing Cliques and Snapcasters is a possibility, although it's lifeloss in a deck that needs it's life total. Chant draws out disruption and forces them to play their hand instead of sitting back allowing you to take one piece, then cast another. Which is just one of the reasons Chant is better than Thoughtseize, but you keep on, keepin' on with your Flusterstorms and Thoughtseizes. Can't wait to see a top 8 list with them, because there certainly isn't any right now.
The thing to remember about TES is it's versatile as fuck and rewards you for your play skill unlike ant which is linear as fuck and doesn't have as many lines of play. Pyroblast will always be a great card in the board because its so versatile against blue decks, unlike Flusterstorm, which hits a couple cards but is never that good. Without misstep pyroblast is always going to be one of the best anti-blue cards for tes because of the versatility of the card. If you look at just about the whole board it's all about versatility, which makes tes a beast of a deck to play.
Also, I don't see snapcaster being a big deal against tes... i just don't.
Can we lock this thread and delete every post that isn't the primer? Pretty much nothing else needs to be discussed, Bryant's primer is fucking perfect, and my primer will answer some shit too. You guys are just repeating yourselves and suggesting terrible cards... Flusterstorm... Seriously?
Flusterstorm is clearly an anti-storm card, not that blue really needs more answers to storm and there are better options already. The deck is better served by proactive protection then reactive counter magic. IMO.
I would run spell pierce over flusterstorm if i was gonna use a blue counter (not that i think running a blue counter is a good idea). Just because it says storm on the card doesn't mean it belongs in the deck.
PiF is a conditionally good wish target, it definitely is a more mana intensive route then IGG, but could potentially generate a higher storm count, or allow you to go off after duressing away their counter magic when IGG would need chant protection to work, and DR would depend on chance instead of a clear path. And you will likely need at least 2 rituals in the yard, it not working with LED is really its greatest shortcoming. It's kind of corner case but i have been in relevant situations a few times...... i think, i don't know if i would have had enough mana to pull it off.
IMO, the problem with Orim's Chant is that it doesn't address Vendilion Clique, which has become either the primary or secondary disruption in a lot of Tier 1 decks like NO RUG and Stoneforge.dec While Orim's Chant forces them to play Vendilion Clique, if they discard your threat then they've gained card advantage, informational advantage and positional advantage. With Thought Seize, and to a lesser extent Duress, you at least retain card parody and information parody. Granted our match up has improved vs. NO RUG thanks to Daze replacing Mental Misstep, but Vendilion Clique remains a serious problem to the Orim's Chant and Duress disruption package, Xantid Swarm is of dubious SB value vs a deck that wont SB out its removal because it doubles as disruption vs. Ad Nauseam (direct damage) and Pyroblast, IMO, has always been awkward with LED and/or Hellbent and still doesn't address game 1.
Despite Thought Seize being worse vs. Force of Will and other counter spells, I still it's good enough to be played vs them while being significantly better vs. Counterbalance, Vendilion Clique and SB hate bears while having the added possibility of playing a straight U/b/r manabase. I really think in the presence of turn 2 Vendilion Cliques, Orim's Chant is over kill vs. Force of Will and Thought Seize is a necessity (3xMD, 1xSB).
My god I hope Wizards print some kind of new ritual like some instant pay 1 life: add B to your mana pool so that we can have some serious sh!t discussion over here and not the ever recurring Fkcerstorm whatever!
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