What is it: CounterBlade is my attempt at fusing the CounterTop (Counterbalance + Sensei's Divining Top) archtype with the Blade Control archtype (Stoneforge Mystic + Batterskull) to form a deck that will cover it's own weaknesses by combining the two archtypes together. CounterTop is traditional weak to Aether Vial decks like Goblins and Merfolk while Blade Control is, since the banning of Mental Misstep, much weaker to storm decks like TES. CounterTop is strong against storm while SFM + Batterskull is strong against goblin/merfolk vial decks. In theory, the deck will cover it's own weaknesses.
Why should I play it: You want a blue deck that can fight combo decks while also being able to fight vial decks after the loss of Mental Misstep. CounterTop can protect SFM while SFM can help offset the issues CounterTop has with vial decks.
Core Cards: I see the following as the core cards:
4 StoneForge Mystic
1-2 Batterskull
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Tundra
18 other lands
25-26 other non-land cards
Possible additions: The following cards make for excellent additions to this deck:
Grim Lavamancer: Splashing Red is a good choice for this deck and Grim is one of them. He acts as another source of removal for your deck and is great against Goblins and Merfolk. Furthermore, you can tempt players to throw their removal at him rather than your SFM, allowing you to drop your combo.
Sword of Fire and Ice: I'm predicting the meta will be heavy Goblins and Merfolk. This card utterly destroys either deck further, gaining you large amounts of card advantage while also removing their creatures. It's also great for any flying creatures you may have in your deck like Cliques. Speaking of which...
Sword of Feast and Famine: The other sword that is popular with Blade Control decks with enough creatures to use them. The abilities are not quite as good as the SoFI, but the protections are better for fighting aggro-heavy decks that use big green beaters.
Vendilion Clique: A great disruptive creature that further helps out our combo matchups, Clique is also good for carrying any equipment that your SFM may find.
Jace, The Mind Sculptor: He sorta goes without saying. He acts as card advantage and another way to win if attacking with a giant Germ won't work.
Example deck list:
Mainboard:
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Counterbalance
2 Batterskull
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island
1 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sidebord:
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Pyroblast
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Spell Pierce
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Notes:
- The sideboard I use is still under construction. I designed it to help with Show-n-Tell decks and Merfolk. It may change in a later iteration.
- Despite talk that SFM and CBT are mana intensive, they really aren't in practice. Simply focus on which ever combo you can get out first or, if you can, get the CBT combo out first to protect your SFM. Remember that SFM ability to drop a batterskull is an instant. This allows you to keep CBT mana open during your opponents turn and if they do nothing extremely threatening, you drop a batterskull at the end of their turn.
- Batterskull is amazingly good at stopping Empty the Warren or sometimes Bridge from Below tokens if they are not too numerous.
This deck is still under development in anticipation of the new meta. Feedback is welcome.
I have tried this out in Hanni's Countertop Walker thread:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...d=1#post588009
My list is basically:
Manabase:
7 Island
2 Plains
1 Kor Haven
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Drop (13):
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
2 Drop (11):
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Counterbalance
3 Counterspell
3 Drops (5):
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Drops (4):
2 Jace 2.0
2 Elspeth 1.0
5 Drops (5):
4x Force of Will
1x Batterskull
I reckon we can do without the red splash and just go with straight up UW. We also need to work out this deck's weaknesses so that we can build an appropriate sideboard
Not having red is bad since we have a very bad matchup vs Show n Tell decks. Post board, we could board in Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast to fight them. To lightly splash red for grims and sideboard material seems very much worth it considering we aren't running Wasteland/Mishra's Factories.Originally Posted by yutang
Despite what you say about the deck appearing more mana intensive then it is, I was still having problems with mana being my chief bottle neck. I also had the problem of drawing into the wrong combo in matchups where I only wanted one, and only had minimal ways of sorting out this problem.
I would suggest a sword of feast and famine over the second batterskull because the untap is exactly what you want in a deck like this. I have also tried including chrome mox in the list to mixed results.
Give me examples of where you had this issue.
Alright. So I play against a friend playing an unknown deck. I win the die roll and open a hand of something like top, strand, brainstorm, tundra, balance, lavamancer, counterspell. Looks to be a pretty ideal hand.
I lay down a strand and crack it for island. Pass the turn.
He draws lays down tiaga, nactyl pass.
I brainstorm in reponse to the nactyl hitting mystic, fetch, and vendillion clique. I put back counterspell then fetch on top.
Untap, play tundra put down counterbalance.
He takes his turn, swings for 3, and lays down kird ape lavamancer. (Me 16, him 18)
I draw counterspell, put down top, fetch (uncracked) and pass the turn.
He drops his land swings for 5, leaving grim lavamancer untapped. I top to see a swords to plowshares and 2 lands. I could draw the swords and hit nactyl, but then he could plop down a pridemage. Also, I would be dead to lavamancer killing all my dudes. I take the damage (Me 11, him 17). He ships the turn.
I draw swords, swords lavamancer (shoots me for 2). Now, I'm in pretty rough shape. With two untapped mana, I try for a stoneforge mystic (Me 8, him 17). He bolts in responce to the search effect. I decide that I'm pretty toast if SFM mystic does not stick around here, so I draw with drop (Jace) and counter his bolt. Goodbye top.
He Draws, swings for 5 (Me 3, him 17). He tries for a chain lightning on me. Reveal blind flip... brainstorm. Whew... he taps him other two lands and helix's me.
Why didn't you drop the top?
I didn't drop the top, because you want to use brainstorm to setup a counterbalance on turn 2. This way you don't have a turn of blind flip where you might have actually done nothing on turn 1 and 2.
If I was playing against storm with that hand and I dropped top, I would simply be dead to going off. Against zoo, if I dropped top, I would have no mana to balance pridemage if he came down. I would basically need to find a swords that turn with top.
- And if you had that Top, you would have stopped his one drops. if you were that worried about pridemage, you could have gone top, then have mana open for counterspell on his pridemage. If not, THEN you could have brainstormed, dropped CB, etc.
- You'd be dead regardless and should mull that hand if you feel that way. Hoping to brainstorm into a FoW is bad play.If I was playing against storm with that hand and I dropped top, I would simply be dead to going off.
- Read above. Anyways, I didn't see your issue with mana since I don't feel you made the correct plays. Against most decks you should have dropped the top right away and against storm you shouldn't have kept that hand if you felt that you had to brainstorm into a FoW. If anything, the mana issue was a result of you being too defensive and losing tempo from playing as such.Against zoo, if I dropped top, I would have no mana to balance pridemage if he came down. I would basically need to find a swords that turn with top.
So I drop top and pass the turn... then he still drops the 2 1 drops. If I play down counterbalance, then he plays the 2 drops. Regardless of what you think, the play is not obviously wrong.
- My point is the example had nothing to do with mana issues using Stoneblade and Counterbalance. The issue is simply looking for a good play against zoo.
I have high hopes for this thread. Let's not have it derailed into an argument.
For the record: against an unknown deck, you _always_ drop turn 1 Top on the play.
I don't play a lot of Counterbalance, but all the good local players I respect will frequently use a turn 1 Brainstorm to set up the right Counterbalance on turn 2, even with a turn 3 top. It also gives you the option of protecting both elements from discard. From what I've seen of other people playing the deck, this is the optimal play against an unknown opponent, and it makes sense to me in theory.
Here are two well-respected Counterbalance players who hold the same opinion:
http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...dering-legacy/
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...rainstorm.html
I have yet to read an article from anyone suggesting the contrary, but it might be out there.
The only reason why I would ever burn a brainstorm t1 is in response to discard, to find a fow against combo or when I have mulliganed into a 5 with only 1 land but with a mystic/counterbalance. Even then I would probably only use brainstorm if he drops a fast 1-drop like nacatl or aether vial.
The reason is that you want to get rid of the wrong cards with brainstorm rather than finding the "right cards" by digging. The deck is reactive by nature after all:)
This reflects a misunderstanding of the CB archetype. The best thing you can possibly do is set up your CBT "combo" as fast as possible. What you want to do is get the engine online so you can start locking out your opponent and gaining massive CA by using 2 cards to cost your opponent 5 cards or more to try and remove/play around.
The only reason you might want to hold off on getting top/CB in play as fast as possible is if the opponent is combo and you must hold up mana for Spell Pierce/Counterspell to avoid immediate death. Otherwise you will always benefit from getting the combo into play before your opponent has a chance to react. This strategy isn't "reactive" at all. It is highly proactive. It is also highly effective at winning the game. The reason Misstep made CB unplayable is that it made the opportunity cost of playing out Top on the first turn unacceptably high. Now that you don't have to worry about getting 1/2 your combo blown out like that, CBT decks should start to succeed again.
EDIT: Forgot to say that none of this is in support of blowing your brainstorm t1 just to find the missing half of the combo. Personally I would only do that if 1) I have junk cards in my hand + a fetchland to shuffle them away, or; 2) I know more or less what my opponent is playing. Now, if you are experienced with your deck you will start to see more and more #1 situations. Learn to identify what makes a good hand and how you can use brainstorm to sculpt the ideal grip of 7 and you will be well on your way to becoming a better Legacy player (and a better Magic player in general). Experience will reduce the chances of making a serious mistake by casting brainstorm at any stage of the game, not just in the first few turns.
Here's what I've been working on. It has tested very well.
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind-Sculptor
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
4 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
2 Volcanic Island -- 2 Pyroblast from the board
Many people run a second Batterskull over the Sword, but I wanted more 3 drops, and I also wanted to ignore Knight of the Reliquary.
The Jaces are my least favorite cards in the deck; they're mainly there as a concession to the other Jace decks, which may be rapidly decreasing in number.
0 Snapcaster Mage
Recasting a Brainstorm or a Swords to Plowshares is some good, as would be a higher 2-drop count. However, while this is a cmc=2 card for Counterbalance, the card itself actually costs 3 (very seldom will it act as pseudo-removal in Legacy), and frankly I was worried about the deck not being quick enough. We've already got enough powerful late-game engines. That said, I would consider testing him in the two Jace slots--he seems like he can the same thing against Jace decks, while being a little better everywhere else.
First, I like the list a lot. I think I may start playing this deck on MWS soon as a prelude to getting the cards together (have almost everything).
Yet I think your reasoning on Snapcaster is flawed. I think you should be looking at him as a body for Sword with the added value of recasting the best instant in your GY. When you look at it this way, it's fairly incredible. Think about why you would run a card like Dark Confidant in a tempo deck - mainly he gives you a clock while digging for that card that you need to break open the gamestate. Snapcaster does the same. It doesn't matter if he's not a relevant blocker; you don't need him to be. In fact if you use him to block anything other than a Confidant, a Goblin Lackey or another Snapcaster, I would say you are doing it wrong. You'd much rather get your immediate value (StP or Brainstorm) and have a body to attack with (hopefully soon to be equipped).
You do have the right idea about his usefulness against Jace, and this is where he really shines. Say they drop Jace, or really any planeswalker on an empty board. You reply with the Mage for value, while swinging into their walker for 2 points on the next attack phase. Suddenly, even if you only had 1 card in hand and nothing on the board, the situation has completely swung in your favor. Seriously; what are they gonna do? Bounce him? LOL. If one card makes Jace more unpopular in the near future, it will be Snapcaster.
Clearly he's good against a Jace, but what if they have blockers?
I lot of people are talking about having a problem with Hive Mind. I bring in 2 Pyroblast and 2 Spell Pierce from the board. These serve to stop them from winning early, and from there they simply don't have enough protection to resolve their combo. Eventually you can establish CounterTop on 3, often floating a Force of Will on top as well.
Then you wait until: 1) they attack, leaving them tapped out, or 2) you have a sword, or 3) you have removal.
Needless to say if they have Batterskull out, you might just be boned no matter what.... ;-P
What is the gameplan against a resolved Aether Vial early? All-in on SFM -> Batterskull?
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