Changed my side to:
3 Perish
3 Engineered Plague
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Dystopia
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Faerie Macabre (new)
Hoping for a lot of green, white and tribal. Mirror wouldn't be bad either.
I've been following this thread for a while and really like the look of the deck. I'm an old MTG player who hasn't played for 10+ years and am planning to give The Gate a go at a tournament here in the UK. The meta here is expected to be very Reanimator heavy so that's influenced some of the deck/SB choices.
Here's the current version of the deck I'm planning to play.
17 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Dark Confidant
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Innocent Blood
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Extirpate
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Bitterblossom
SB is likely to feature the following as I'm expecting Reanimator/Goblins/combo etc. The Dark Rituals are in there to give the deck a speed boost if need be to bring the key cards out quicker against faster decks.
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Sadistic Sacrament
3 Engineered Plague
4 Dark Ritual
Interested to hear any suggestions about the build. Cheers!
i rather go 3 dystopia than 3 perish. These two cards essentially do the same thing, but dystopia helps me get rid of annoying enchantments and stupid stoneforge mystics.Originally Posted by JuzamDjinn
Also, your combo matchup doesn't look good because of the 2 mind break traps. I think you need null rods or thorn of amethysts over the mindbreak traps.
Engineered plague isn't really needed in this deck. You don't really have too much of a problem with goblins especially with innocent bloods and go for the throats. Merfolk, well you probably have more removal than their creatures, coupled with discards, they won't be doing much.
What i see problems with in your deck is combo to be honest. Thats mostly it. and Hivemind. But whatever you do with your sideboard, it won't help your hivemind matchup anyways.
Same with the dredge/reanimator matchup. Two gravehate cards (like your mindbreak traps), just isn't gonna cut it.
You need targeted removal. You really do.
Thanks. Change the Edicts to Go For The Throat, or similar?
I wonder why no one is trying the new Liliana.
I know that rituals were discussed earlier, but now we have a very good 3 mana bomb.
Hey! Cool to see you here, I took your advice and added some Pithing Needles to my SB and now that Misstep is gone and Countertop may resurface they seem even better.
This I'm not sure of, Misstep turned out to be really awesome in this deck but now that it's banned I'm thinking the most logical thing to do would be replace it with some 1cc spells now that they have more space to breathe. I was thinking either:
+4 Dark Ritual
or
+2 Inquisition of Kozilek
+1 Duress
+1 Disfigure
This choice comes down to speed vs. consistency so I'm leaning towards the latter. It would give me a pretty good chance at turn 1 discard which is always nice. Maybe some SDT and a couple fetchlands could be good too, crazy good synergy with Confidant and would help a ton in topdeck mode (which is one instance where this deck often fails). I like the idea of running a single SoFaI too so that's also a possibility.
I don't think Liliana would be good in this deck, mainly because there aren't really any ways to make her +1 asymmetric like there are in Pox.
Thank you :)
Thank you :)
With those two answers I choose the following build for tomorrow:
1 SoFI should probably be 1 SoLS but I can't find my 2nd one...
Last edited by JuzamDjinn; 09-30-2011 at 06:26 AM.
Honestly, new Liliana is one of the things that has me wanting to come back to this deck. She seems to me like she has enough raw power that it makes sense to try to fit her in, and Sword of Light and Shadow and Crucible of Worlds seem like potential options to break the symmetry of her +1 ability. Honestly though, in a few matchups I would expect her to just function as removal, and I'd be fine with that. I think where she shines is her ability to be a versatile threat, IE she doesn't suck against aggro, and she's actually quite good against combo and control, it seems to me. Just my two cents, I will admit I haven't tested this deck in a little while.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Honestly, new Liliana is one of the things that has me wanting to come back to this deck. She seems to me like she has enough raw power that it makes sense to try to fit her in, and Sword of Light and Shadow and Crucible of Worlds seem like potential options to break the symmetry of her +1 ability. Honestly though, in a few matchups I would expect her to just function as removal, and I'd be fine with that. I think where she shines is her ability to be a versatile threat, IE she doesn't suck against aggro, and she's actually quite good against combo and control, it seems to me. Just my two cents, I will admit I haven't tested this deck in a little while.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
I was struck by the raw amounts of hostility, ignorance, and anger in the first 20 or so pages of this thread. Hollywood, and everyone else continuing development of this deck, you keep on doing what you're doing--the peeps saying it can't be done just need to get out of the way of the peeps trying to do it. Rise above, don't waste time arguing with the disaffected or those too lazy to put in playtest effort.
I'm a fan, and building this to play at the next Jupiter Games Legacy tourney. Have not settled on a solid list yet, but will be testing Liliana of the Veil extensively. She seems excellent in theory--functionally very similar to the Gatekeeper, with potential additional benefits--while at the worst, yet another sacrifice effect requiring removal or a successful attack to be yarded. I don't view losing a card to have your opponent lose a card as a drawback in many cases: following this loss with a Hymn just makes the Hymn that much more likely to be crushing. And yes, of course this is situational, which is why my playtest partner and I will be trying it.
I've been fine running 4 Liliana, just pitching extras to her own +1, or you can Edict, +1, then sacrifice her and play another Liliana. Plus, since she pitches dead cards, you can afford to run extra 1cc discard or slow cards that give advantages over time like Phyrexian Arena.
I think Liliana could be very strong in this deck, but if we run her, we should run 4 Dark Rits aswell.
My current pile:
Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
17 [ALA] Swamp (1)
// Creatures
1 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
2 [NPH] Phyrexian Obliterator
4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
// Spells
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
3 [MOR] Bitterblossom
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (4)
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [B] Dark Ritual
4 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil
2 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
SB: 3 [AL] Dystopia
SB: 3 [ARE] Duress
SB: 2 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
Last edited by unicoerner; 09-30-2011 at 03:31 PM.
For many of the reasons discussed exhaustively, I'd hesitate to run the Dark Rituals. It's not an intrinsically bad idea and may be the right call in certain metas, but my local is far too aggo/counter heavy for me to ever want to Ritual her out, and be down a card when she fails to resolve or gets whacked without value. Your mileage may differ.
Having not playtested yet (will tonight at Jupiter, a LOT), the pure common sense of pitching extras to her own +1 is a laugher I hadn't considered. Love it! Also, will try running 3, rather than 4, Deathmark main for the many reasons listed in the previous 74 pages, and definitely 3 Jitte main. Friends questioned my decision to run Jitte main in Stoneforge with SoFI, SoFF, and SoLS, and it was never a mistake. It would also cause random blowouts when I drew it normally. Not SoFI, not SoLS, not SoFF here unless MAYBE sideboard. Jitte, because removal/life gain/pump over the other effects is preferable. I completely back Hollywood on this point!
Dystopia out of side, I was playing in the era when this card was legal, and it is genuinely unfair. Kills Moat, 'nuff said there, and DESTROYS Enchantress because they have no realistic plan to damage you until the end (said as an Enchantress player since Saga, with a sleeved version ready to play in the deckbag). Potentially paying one life to off a Knight just seems like...cheating.
Okay, to everyone suggesting Liliana of the Veil:
Do you plan to use her for her 1+ ability, or the Cruel Edict ability? If you want to use her Cruel Edict, I'd rather use an edict effect than her. If it is for her 1+ ability, how do you intent to break the symmetry? She'd probably work better than Pox than in here, unless we morph the deck around her somewhat.
I've tested her in Eva Green. Her abilities are much better than the stand alone cards with that ability, especially the following turn.
She helps fight combo and control very very well, something the gate has problems with. I wouldn't suggest running her as a four of, but at most a 3. The best number would be a 2 of.
In theory, Liliana protects herself, which is a characteristic the more heavily-used planeswalkers share. She's also one of two that only costs 3. Both of these points mean she should be seriously considered.
More specifically, you ideally use BOTH abilities if possible. +1 if no crits on board/if appropriate, -2 to protect herself so you can start +1'ing. Just depends on how the game plays out as to which is more appropriate. In many ways, even better than Gatekeeper because it is the rare player who bolts that guy off. Liliana WILL eat that Bolt, or I'll be happy to shove her up where the sun don't shine, turn after turn...=)
As far as symmetry (parity), they kill her with removal and you get a 2-fer. They kill her with an attack, you essentially gain that much life and buy time. Either way is fine, and if she sticks, her -2 is inherently asymmetrical. Not shabby, and some strong arguments for why she's currently second-most valuable in this set.
Nobody questions Gatekeeper as a 4-of, at least, no-one that's playtested him. I've not playtested her yet, but will be tonight--and am confident the correct number in your starting 75 is greater than zero. As Avatar of Shadow suggests, I don't think the number is 4, but it will be fun to find out. >=)
I got 3rd in a tournament with 3-1 score yesterday. Lost against GW Maverick, won against NO Bant, Elementals!? and Burn. Mvp in my deck is Gatekeeper, always good. Inquisition was great, better than Duress. Hymn and Disfigure also good. Dismember helped me kill Goyf, but costed me a lot of life. Obliterator was good when I was winning, didn't help when I was losing. Dystopia great SB card. Will do some changes MD and SB when I have time this week :) (writing from my mobile phone)
Last edited by JuzamDjinn; 10-03-2011 at 03:47 AM.
Played to a 2-1 finish at a casual Legacy event at Jupiter Sunday. Round 1 loss to a meaningless U/R land destruction deck...meaningless because it was a nonviable nonstarter at any "serious" Legacy event. Lost because he literally topdecked the removal he needed four turns in a row Game 2 and twice in Game 3. *shrug* Won't be seeing that deck or player again, so whatevs.
On a more serious note, it ran over a Stoneblade deck two in a row, easily. Nothing much to comment on--just a straightforward, old-fashioned alley beating.
Dredge in Round 3 was surprisingly straightforward. Attack relevant spells like Careful Study in the hand so he has no discard outlet (was on the draw, remember, if you win the toss you WANT them to NOT draw), land a Persecutor, easy win G1. Did NOT Hymn, that would have helped him. G2 he makes 2 Zombies and I very awkwardly have no removal. He is set to go off when I topdeck a Relic and strip our yards. His Zombies have me at 11 when I topdeck Bob, go for it, draw a Jitte, and battle back at three life. Bob then kills me as I reveal Faerie Macabre and the blowout in sight. G3 I start with Relic and Macabre in hand, attack his grip, and win easily as he winds up with no yard, no hand, 2 lands, and a Narcomoeba in play. >=)
Also playtested against my own Faeblade deck, which favored the Fae 4-2. The Deathmarks should be Dismembers, made that change on the fly. Inquisition of Kozilek is also preferable to Duress, though the Duress hits Jace where IoK doesn't, but hitting a Stoneforge trumps that IMHO. Will try it a bit more.
Bojuka Bog as a 1-of is very mixed. Randomly GREAT, randomly AWFUL. Also trying Volrath's Stronghold, has not been good yet but seems like it could be against decks not using StP.
Could I see your list?
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