[Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

[OurSerratedDust]

If you have 2 mana floating, your new 7 should be able to kill over half the time. If this probability isn't being realized, it is simply because of luck

If it is reasonable, make sure you haven't made a land drop when casting diminishing returns with one or two mana floating. Being able to drop a land off your new seven can be REALLY important.

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

If it is reasonable, make sure you haven't made a land drop when casting diminishing returns with one or two mana floating. Being able to drop a land off your new seven can be REALLY important.

I think the opposite is true. If you have a land, play it before returns. The deck runs 13 lands, so the chances that you don't draw land in your post DR hand is good (especially if you've already played a couple of lands).

[Sea R Hill]

I did anticipate for Spellstutter Sprite if you read my post correctly.

Yes. You anticipated that it would be more played than before MMS. I just said the opposite.

Well if Snapcaster and Spellsnare/Pierce pick up value, it only makes Orim's Chant that much better. Chant is great against Snare/Stifle/Pierce decks. Thank you for helping me prove a point.

Have you realized you quoted yourself to say that?
Do you like that much to be right?

Well you kind of did [said that now that Misstep is gone Flusterstorm is the card to play], I just went back and reread the last few pages.

Please show me where. I have never said that.

Xantid is the card to run now that people have put up an argument it seems. "No real argument proved me wrong", nice childish antics. How old are you? Twelve?

People have been stating why Flusterstorm is worse over the last two pages, you can choose to believe it or continue being immature.

Well, who you say is the child?
Please leave arrogance and condescend out of your posts.


Anyway I'll stop arguing with you. You are not looking for any strategic discussion, you just want to grow your ego acting like a teacher who knows everything and doesn't stand to be wrong (your last post, quoting yourself to make a point and imaginating posts from other sourcers is just pathetic and you should be ashamed).

[Deviruchi]

I think the opposite is true. If you have a land, play it before returns. The deck runs 13 lands, so the chances that you don't draw land in your post DR hand is good (especially if you've already played a couple of lands).

In my opinion OurSerratedDust is correct. With mana floating you don't want to waste land drop so you can for example use cantrips better, play land later to get hellbent or get better mana color (every situation is different). I won many games because of that and also I goldfished DR a lot in spare time to prove that opinion.

[Tammit67]

Anyway I'll stop arguing with you. You are not looking for any strategic discussion, you just want to grow your ego acting like a teacher who knows everything and doesn't stand to be wrong (your last post, quoting yourself to make a point and imaginating posts from other sourcers is just pathetic and you should be ashamed).

Sure, Bryant has an ego. But he, along with a lot of us here, look for strategic discussion. The problem though is that this archetype has very few slots that aren't set where you can play things around. Combine that with the low number of cards printed recently to support storm (as compared to aggro or control), there aren't so many things to test and the strategic discussion is just a rehash of previous ones.

If you are going to introduce a new idea to a group of people who have done well in this meta before, the burden of proof is on you. Regardless of who has a bigger penis, you better have some results to back up your opinion.

@Flusterstorm: I couldn't care less about Hymn decks that aren't TA. I don't face them often, I can hide things with brainstorm, and they rarely have a fast enough clock to accompany the discard. I'd rather have pyroblast in my side, as CB/merfolk/clique are more of a problem for me to deal with. If I can spend R to prevent a Silvergill Adept from easily resolving, I'll probably do it. To me, the narrowness of flusterstorm is what kills it. I am comfortable enough with the deck to not have to worry about the cards that are easier to be played around, and sideboard to bolster my personal weaknesses as well as TES. If you don't mind CB for whatever reason, and hate to get hymn'd, play fluster for all we care. But I don't think it is as good of a decision as just learning to play around it.

[Bryant Cook]

I think the opposite is true. If you have a land, play it before returns. The deck runs 13 lands, so the chances that you don't draw land in your post DR hand is good (especially if you've already played a couple of lands).

It can work both ways with Hellbent and getting stuck with a land in your hand.

Yes. You anticipated that it would be more played than before MMS. I just said the opposite.

I said that it would see more play than it did during Mental Misstep. I said was used to combat Hive Mind decks and now people will look at it to fill the Misstep slots.

Have you realized you quoted yourself to say that?
Do you like that much to be right?

Quoting yourself isn’t a big deal, it’s to save time so that I don’t have to continually repeat myself. But I seem to have to do so anyway.

It’s not a matter of proving myself right as to get people to play the deck correctly.

Well, who you say is the child?
Please leave arrogance and condescend out of your posts.
Anyway I'll stop arguing with you. You are not looking for any strategic discussion, you just want to grow your ego acting like a teacher who knows everything and doesn't stand to be wrong (your last post, quoting yourself to make a point and imaginating posts from other sourcers is just pathetic and you should be ashamed).

I hear there’s a great thread at MTGSalvation if you don’t like to have your ideas challenged. I post the way I do because there’s results and reason to what I’m saying.

I listen to good ideas. Not too long ago someone mentioned a second Ad Nauseam over the maindeck Empty the Warrens, because Warrens is weak in the Metagame right now. There was more than, “I think this card is better”.

Yup, I’m a teacher with an ego. I’ll think twice about quoting myself next time, because next time I’m going to put it all in bold so that the class will pay attention.

Sure, Bryant has an ego. But he, along with a lot of us here, look for strategic discussion. The problem though is that this archetype has very few slots that aren't set where you can play things around. Combine that with the low number of cards printed recently to support storm (as compared to aggro or control), there aren't so many things to test and the strategic discussion is just a rehash of previous ones.

If you are going to introduce a new idea to a group of people who have done well in this meta before, the burden of proof is on you. Regardless of who has a bigger penis, you better have some results to back up your opinion.

@Flusterstorm: I couldn't care less about Hymn decks that aren't TA. I don't face them often, I can hide things with brainstorm, and they rarely have a fast enough clock to accompany the discard. I'd rather have pyroblast in my side, as CB/merfolk/clique are more of a problem for me to deal with. If I can spend R to prevent a Silvergill Adept from easily resolving, I'll probably do it. To me, the narrowness of flusterstorm is what kills it. I am comfortable enough with the deck to not have to worry about the cards that are easier to be played around, and sideboard to bolster my personal weaknesses as well as TES. If you don't mind CB for whatever reason, and hate to get hymn'd, play fluster for all we care. But I don't think it is as good of a decision as just learning to play around it.

Well said.

[Dark Ritual]

I think the opposite is true. If you have a land, play it before returns. The deck runs 13 lands, so the chances that you don't draw land in your post DR hand is good (especially if you've already played a couple of lands).

I think it's a matter of preference here. If you play the land before diminishing returns and draw exactly one land post returns and you don't have an LED or brainstorm to get rid of that land to get hellbent, you made the wrong play. I think it's a matter of preference on whether you play the land before or after. Personally, I think that playing a land before returns is the right move because then there's a lower probability of drawing land post returns. Although it also depends on what land you're playing. Are you playing volcanic island and are going to have UR floating post returns? I would hold the volcanic island at that point because it's unlikely you'll need UR+U/R post returns because you generally need black mana to combo. If you're playing gemstone mine/city of brass you run it out there. Same with fetches since you can get the color you need with any fetch provided you have at least 1 volc and sea left in the deck.

If you're worried about hymn decks learn to brainstorm and lay down artifact mana before your critical turn as well as playing cantrips correctly. No one said TES was the easiest deck in the world to play; this deck is quite complex and if you can't learn every complexity about TES go play something quite linear like UB ANT or another archetype.

[Kanti]

How the hell do I link cards guys? So that you can mouse-over and have it pop up.

I think I asked this some posts ago but it didn't catch a response. What do you guys think about.... Drain Power vs Blue?

The problems with the card seem that an opponent can dump all their mana into activating a top or a Mutavault to deny us the their mana. They can then play all the Daze and FoW's from their hand no problem. It might be a slower chant.

Or... it might be alright. Just some food for though.

Ps: Sideboard space sucks. I have made the move like most to cut a Meltdown as it was my least Wished for card, and I don't run Pyros or Deathmarks for bears. My main deck is the same everyone has really, with 2 Ad 1 Tendrils. This is what I run if you're wondering;

2 Xantid Swarm
2 Pyroblast
1 Krosan Grip
2 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Shattering Spree
1 Thoughtseize
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Diminishing Returns
1 IGG

[OurSerratedDust]

Wouldn't something like Carpet of Flowers be better? It costs one less, and can do what Drain Power does every turn (well, just about).

A lot of TES players don't like playing it but Carpet is insane in DDFT.

[Kanti]

Yeah, pretty much. And Carpet isn't even good here. I used to love it in Pact SI since you could stick a Carpet and start hard casting Belchers and Infernal Contracts vs control, eventually running them out of counters.

I have really been wanting Deathmarks or Pyros though. Almost every Uw Stoneforge deck I've been facing has been siding in Canonist. I fucking hate that card.

[Pulp_Fiction]

I am really liking Past in Flames out of the board. The more I goldfish TES the more I like it. I am playing a ridiculously weird version of the deck, but the core stuff remains untouched. Recently I tested out PiF in the main and ... it was quite terrible. The card is super conditional, but at the right times its just nuts. So I think one in the board is almost mandatory at this point, its just so good, its like a new conditional IGG with opposite drawbacks.

Carpet is meh .. in TES. We don't have a lot of just BOMB threats, most of the time I would rather have Swarm in that slot. It ok, sure, but not particularly great. In DDFT it allows you to go nuts and start throwing discard and DDs at them until they just run out of counters. Personally, I think Pyroblast is garbage, ran it in the past and and never liked it, so for me that slot is always up for debate. A solid argument can still be made for Defense Grid but it depends on the number of Snares that people decide to run. I just always like Swarm since it avoids both Pierce and Snare and forces ur opponent to keep their worthless Swords in JUST to have an answer 2 the thing.

[gustha]

Thanks, I'd really wanted some insight on PiF. I just don't get why it's the right time to cast it. When I'm wishing for IGG, I nearly always want to get back a LED, and PiF doesn't let me do that. Most of the times, I wish for DR instead. What are the best scenarios to play? I read in the last few pages the PiF is absolutely better than IGG. I just don't get how to play the card correctly, would you mind giving some examples? tx.

Also, @bryant: sideboarding tips in the OP refer to different decklist! (even one with Xantids maindeck)

[Anusien]

If you have 2 mana floating, your new 7 should be able to kill over half the time. If this probability isn't being realized, it is simply because of luck

I don't think you understand probability...

[jin]

I am really liking Past in Flames out of the board. The more I goldfish TES the more I like it. I am playing a ridiculously weird version of the deck, but the core stuff remains untouched. Recently I tested out PiF in the main and ... it was quite terrible. The card is super conditional, but at the right times its just nuts. So I think one in the board is almost mandatory at this point, its just so good, its like a new conditional IGG with opposite drawbacks.

Carpet is meh .. in TES. We don't have a lot of just BOMB threats, most of the time I would rather have Swarm in that slot. It ok, sure, but not particularly great. In DDFT it allows you to go nuts and start throwing discard and DDs at them until they just run out of counters. Personally, I think Pyroblast is garbage, ran it in the past and and never liked it, so for me that slot is always up for debate. A solid argument can still be made for Defense Grid but it depends on the number of Snares that people decide to run. I just always like Swarm since it avoids both Pierce and Snare and forces ur opponent to keep their worthless Swords in JUST to have an answer 2 the thing.

Really? How are you setting up Past in Flame? Care to give me some insight? I'm kind of confused. Do you use it versus aggro at all? Did you replace IGG with it?

Don't you think if Defense Grid got hit by daze, it would be bad?

Isn't swarm weak against Spellstutter Sprite and Vendilion Clique?

lmk what you think!

[r0ckstAr]

Why would swarm be weak against Spellstutter Sprite and Vendilion Clique ? It only needs to attack to trigger anyway and you will only attack with it when you win... Now against a flyer + stifle it is bad...

[Raggedjoe]

Hi guys, long time reader and player, new poster. I've picked up this deck again with the banning of MM..... its still one of my favorite decks

Why would swarm be weak against Spellstutter Sprite and Vendilion Clique ? It only needs to attack to trigger anyway and you will only attack with it when you win... Now against a flyer + stifle it is bad...

This.

Really? How are you setting up Past in Flame? Care to give me some insight? I'm kind of confused. Do you use it versus aggro at all? Did you replace IGG with it?

I just replace IGG with it. PiF is far superior to IGG IMO, it is better with discard, and usually nets you more mana.

EDIT: I've been thinking of adding a Seething Song to the sb for when your almost there... thoughts?

[thefringthing]

I've been thinking of adding a Seething Song to the sb for when your almost there... thoughts?

Seething Sing is an instant. People used to do this with Rite of Flame (3 main, 1 side), but that seems to have fallen out of favour. You might try 1 Gitaxian Probe in the side as a way to cycle a superfluous Wish.

[Raggedjoe]

Seething Sing is an instant. People used to do this with Rite of Flame (3 main, 1 side), but that seems to have fallen out of favour. You might try 1 Gitaxian Probe in the side as a way to cycle a superfluous Wish.

Thank you. Don't know why I thought I could. I might try Probe, thanks for the tip!

Do you guys all run 8 tutors md, or is that considered too much?

[thefringthing]

My feeling is that you should run all eight main unless you have Cabal Ritual. (I.e. you're ANT or TNT.)

Question for those running two Deathmarks in the side: are you bringing in both, or leaving one as a Wish target?

[Pulp_Fiction]

rockstar summed up why Swarm is good, almost regardless.

There is very little setup for PiF. You either have rituals or not. Ideally you have IT, BW, DRit, LED, Rite in hand. Cast Infernal Tutor doubling up Rite and pass the turn, then next turn BW into PiF and win. Problem is it requires a lot of specific cards to win and is conditional, but the card is good enough that it should be run since it will not bring back counters or hate cards like Trap. I don't see why you wouldn't run both, I win with IGG all of the time (when I play TES in a tournament), why would you want to just throw it away for a conditional win card? Play both.

Grid gets Dazed ... so, 1 less counter, if you expect Daze, just run a Petal out there before casting. I like Swarm in this spot but grid certainly has its merits.

@fringthing: You board 1 in and keep one in the side. I wouldn't play 2 Deathmark though, I personally like 1 Oust and 1 Deathmark.

@raggedjoe: I was an advocate of not running 4x IT main for the longest time, but it really is the right call, threat density wins games.