Hello people I would like to see if Lilliana could find a place in my POX LD deck. Or if she belongs to my sideboard somewhere, since I play with Trinisphere. Anyway here's my list. :) comment and give me few proposals to where she be adopted and which little "diamond" of the deck I should throw away, for her. Thanks for your time.
Mana Base (24):
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
3 Scrublands
3 Mutavault
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
1 Godless Shrine
1 Flagstones of Trokair
Creatures (4):
2 Epochrasite
1 Tombstalkers
1 Nihilith
Spells (32):
4 Pox
4 Small Pox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Sinkhole
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Sensei's Dividing Top
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Syphon Life
Sideboard (15):
2 Ghostly Prison
3 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
Do you actually own 3 Tabernacles? If I were you and I was only allowed to take stuff out to put in Liliana this is what I'd do:
-3 SDT
-1 Syphon Life
+4 Liliana of the Veil
feefox: each card in hand!!!!
ridicolous
only fortune
The introduction of Liliana of the Veil is the best thing that could happen to Pox. Sadly, that still isn't good enough. Pox will never be a deck because it is fundamentally flawed. It aims to put both players in topdeck mode with cards such as Small Pox, Pox, Hymn to Tourach, etc. It tries to gain marginal card advantage by carefully counting the number of cards in hand and in play before playing Pox, so that the effect is not symmetrical.
I will be the first guy to say that I love this strategy. So far so good. The problem with this deck, however, is that your topdecks are worst than your opponent's topdecks. This means that even though you put considerable effort into spiralling both players into topdeck mode, the deck is WEAK when it reaches that objective.
Simply put, while the Pox player topdecks a Pox, I topdeck a Sensei's Divining Top. While the Pox player topdecks a Hymn, I topdeck a Tarmogoyf. While the Pox player topdecks a Swamp, I topdeck a Snapcaster Mage.
There are too many non-threat cards to be good enough in topdeck mode, but if you try to make room for it, the strategy of spiralling the game into topdeck mode doesn't work anymore.
This deck is fun, but bad, because it's inherently flawed.
There have been a few other significant printings, which sadly didn't go to the color black.
Skaab Ruinator is a card that would be very good in Pox. The problem, again, is threat density. You don't run enough creatures to support it nor do you want to remove Bloodghasts. I haven't even mentioned the fact that it's double blue.
Good for you bruizar. I hope you continue to dislike pox. I just HATE when I'm put up against my best matchup aka Blue Aggro Control. /sarcasm
I've been testing the following sideboard. What do you guys think?
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Faerie Macabre
4 Duress
1 Necroplasm
1 Death's Shadow
1 Shield Sphere
2 Winter Orb
1 Pithing Needle
feefox: each card in hand!!!!
ridicolous
only fortune
Yes, I own the Tabernacles. Not that I find them very important though. They seems to bring mixed results. But help the sideboard turn into a control shell if needed. However I find Bruizers replay true in a some match ups. And I placed SDT there to help me top-deck the right cards which ofc is helped by the fetcheds continue to be replayed by CoW and link 3 new cards in the top deck each turn. So I'm not sure I am willing to let that go. However this also leads me to why I chose Mutavault over Mishra's Factory, when top-decking starts for both players it might be better to let go of the mishra' pump ability because every new card you draw has to have an effect on the play to win (SDT) and the lands have to push meanwhile you find a finisher. So why take lands that lockdown more of your mana for +1/+1 pump when you can deny them the artifact removal cards. I asked for suggestions and you brought one! which means I will test both and see if you're correct. :) so Thanks for your time (Your change has been written down) and hopefully there is more to come as soon as people decides to respond :)
@bowvamp: I do not dislike Pox, in fact, I love the deck. It's very machiavelistic in nature and I think that is pretty unique for a deck. I would not play with any less than 4 Liliana's. They are super awesome, not just in Pox. It's very easy to ramp to 6 and it provides you with a permanent out to your opponent's topdecks.
I am not fond of Sinkhole, because you simply don't care about their lands. Especially in the post-Misstep era. They go turn 1 Aether Vial, you go turn 2 Sinkhole. Your opponent doesn't care about your Sinkhole because he can cheat creatures into play anyway. Also, Aether Vial is pretty good against Liliana. Also, I advise you to cut down on wastelands. 0 is the correct number. I have tested Vengeful Pharaoh to very positive results in another deck, and have advised my friend who has been a long time Pox player (2 or 3 years) to play them. They are great in the late game, where you will simply beat your opponent to death, and they are great with Pox/Smallpox/Liliana. They give you built-in protection from topdecks and serve as win conditions as well.
If you are running white, why are you running only 1 Flagstones of Trokair? I think the main advantage of running white IS Flagstone of Trokair and you're already running 4 Urborgs.
@bowvamp: I do not dislike Pox, in fact, I love the deck. It's very machiavelistic in nature and I think that is pretty unique for a deck. I would not play with any less than 4 Liliana's. They are super awesome, not just in Pox. It's very easy to ramp to 6 and it provides you with a permanent out to your opponent's topdecks.
I am not fond of Sinkhole, because you simply don't care about their lands. Especially in the post-Misstep era. They go turn 1 Aether Vial, you go turn 2 Sinkhole. Your opponent doesn't care about your Sinkhole because he can cheat creatures into play anyway. Also, Aether Vial is pretty good against Liliana. Also, I advise you to cut down on wastelands. 0 is the correct number. I have tested Vengeful Pharaoh to very positive results in another deck, and have advised my friend who has been a long time Pox player (2 or 3 years) to play them. They are great in the late game, where you will simply beat your opponent to death, and they are great with Pox/Smallpox/Liliana. They give you built-in protection from topdecks and serve as win conditions as well.
If you are running white, why are you running only 1 Flagstones of Trokair? I think the main advantage of running white IS Flagstone of Trokair and you're already running 4 Urborgs.
Originally Posted by Beautiful-Decay
Agreed. Run more Flagstone of Trokair. It'll make you want to Pox-effect more often. If you are running land destruction, run less BigPox, don't cut Sensei's Divining Top. BigPox is less effective because you'll be playing SmallPox/Sinkhole/Wasteland before you cast BigPox. By that time, at best, you'll only net land. At this point, you'll rather cast the Vindicate on his land rather than BigPox because it hurts you like hell as well. This is what you should do:
-2x Fetchland
-1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
+2x Flagstone of Trokair
+1x Scrubland
-2x Pox
-4x Hymn to Tourach
+3x Liliana of the Veil
+3x Thoughtseize
There really isn't a point to play Hymn to Tourach because between Sinkhole and Smallpox, you'll never cast Hymn to Tourach
Also, I would change Mutavault back to Mishra's Factory. Mishra's Factory just block better and blocking is more important in this deck than attacking. You need to preserve life.
Sinkhole better than Hymn? Hmm... 2-for-1's are good, and Sinkhole gets owned by Vial. Plus, Hymn can hit lands too.
i have a serious question.
in what game can you never cast a hymn? and in what turn?
turn one, i often have a difficult time casting hymn. and before turn 4, casting a Pox is like casting a hymn, as they have to, on average, discard two cards.
also,
i more often than i should sit looking at my opponent while trying to figure them out, and wish i had a corrupt to cast.
Mana is never a problem with my deck.
because i run 18 swamp and do not bother with all the BS.
oh and never having any BS lands has never cost me a game, ever.
i agree,
i used to run Sinkhole until i realized i was dumping my opponents lands with hymn more often than not. Immediately freed up a 4 slot in my deck.
No, it's not. His strategy is land destruction, so I want to keep with it. If he plays Hymn to Tourach, he'll have to cut Sinkhole and that's not what he wants to play.
Also, Ghostly Prison stops Vial decks. All he needs is to cut Syphon Life for the 3rd Ghostly Prison main deck.
None, you should always be able to cast Hymn to Tourach. It is pretty much the best card in this deck, but he wants to play a land destruction strategy. There are 12 2 drops.. you have to cut one.
I play 18 swamps as well. Except I play 23 lands and I don't always make land drops for BigPox. Without cantrips, you can't consistantly make land drops. That's why I play Sensei's Divining Top to help.
you are right @jin about the land destruction. If the point of the deck is to control land then, Sink Hole is a better option, i would still run Hymn though, it is one of the best black cards available for any deck.
Yeah, but given the purpose of his strategy, it's easier to just cut hymn or else you'll be hymning him everytime you should be casting sinkhole and pretty much by the time this is all said and done, his deck will just be another discard pox deck rather than an LD one..
It's really difficult to play 4x hymn, 4x sinkhole and 4x Smallpox
Still in playtest-mode. And need to wait for a package with the Lillianas etc. Before I can began to test her. But first I have to test which 2 cmc card I can let go off or reduce.
Mana Base (24):
4-1=3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (still in testing state due to 7 colorless mana producers)
4 Wasteland
3 Scrublands
3 Mutavault or Mishra's Factory (still in testing state)
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
1 Godless Shrine
1 Flagstones of Trokair (It is true that these is amazing but while I ran 4 Pox they could be hard to cast with 7 colorless mana lands and 1 white only land. (1/3 of the lands) = now I've removed a Pox I may try to add 1 or two.))
Creatures (4):
2 Epochrasite
1 Tombstalkers
1 Nihilith
Spells (32):
4-1=3 Pox
4 Small Pox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Sinkhole (Sinkhole over Hymn because in top-deck mode Hymn dosen't add anything to the decks function where Sinkhole do. Though I see your points in 12 two cmc cards.)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseizes if the -1 Pox and maybe other changes add some less life losses.
3 Sensei's Dividing Top
2 Crucible of Worlds
2+1 =3 Ghostly Prison
-1 Syphon Life (though it works wonders with CoW and is a fine top-deck I'll try without it.)
Sideboard (15):
2-1=1 Ghostly Prison ( who says "no" to 1 more SB slot?)
3 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
The changes would require alot of testing, which puts be back to work on the deck (which I like) However this dosen't change the fact you're welcome to add comments or changes if wished. More work equals more of what I like about magic ;)
I didn't really pay attention to your creature base. What's your reasoning behind 1x Tombstalker and 1x Nihilith? I think Nihilith is better for a Pox deck because it is fast, unblockable and isn't too scared of Plow if you remove everything the opponent has before it comes into play. Tombstalker is more immediate and is more likely to eat a plow.
The problem is that with your list, if you run more Nihilith, you're running more 2CMC cards.. which you really can't play. therefore, I think Tombstalker is better for your list. Epocracite is good in theory. He draws countermagic and plows. You could consider playing more of those, but they are rather slow...
@ Beautiful-Decay:
There is never a good reason to run Mutavault over Mishra's factory. Also, you should run 4. With your mana base, no less than 4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is acceptable.
Nihilith is hands down better than Epochrasite in Pox. Tombstalker is better than both. I prefer 3 Tombstalker/2 Nihilth myself. Preferences will vary, but your deck is light on threats.
1/3 Life, 1/3 Land
1/3 Creatures, 1/3 Hand
Round it up, don't round it down
So turn that smile into a frown!
I just thought of something from long ago. Cursed Scroll with Lily is a good way to pick off extra weenies, or finish off the opponent. Maybe it's something that we should consider in more detail.
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I've tried it. It works well in a pox light deck but in a pox heavy deck, you usually don't have enough lands to cast spells and scroll at the same time....
@jin
are you playtesting Pox, or playing in tournaments. I promise there is a substantial difference.
In playtesting, more often than not you play against people you know. or just goldfishing.
If you continuously play against the same people or person, they know your deck just as good as you do, but in a different light.
they know how to play against you.
when you play against people you do not know, people who do not know what you are playing, and more importantly people who do not know how the deck works, the outcomes will not be the same.
Pox heavy or Pox light, Cursed scroll was always good in Pox. not recently so much, creatures are different. But i play it every now and then, i always like it.
the problem with me, i do not want to accept how slow the card is. the whole deck is slow. but cursed scroll as well as underworld dreams. great for the deck, they just work together. but they are both way to slow.
@poxrocks
why wouldnt you run mutavult over factory? the factories can get destroyed, and you need two out to make the creature a 2/2
with a mutavult they are base 2/2 and if you are playing certain tribal decks they get bigger, and other abilities.
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