[Deck] Solidarity

[Silent Requiem]

Even decks with overpowered draw engines like Ad Nauseam run only 6-8 maindeck disruption spells. In testing, I've found that Solidarity can reasonably handle 8 disruption elements, but more than that is starting to push the limits.

Given the fact that four of my disruption slots will go to FoW, it's a question of what is best put in the other four slots. Remand is a strong contender, as it's great against every deck on the play. On the draw, however, it's actually quite slow. That's alright against control decks and combo decks that are having to pick their way through your other disruption or sculpt their hand. But it's not exactly great, and it's absolutely dire against aggro. With a good hand, Zoo does not actually need to cast anything after turn two in order to win on turn four. Neither does Goblins.

For this reason, I am currently splitting my final four disruption slots between Clique and Remand. Against aggro, Clique is simply removal, while it's disruption and a clock against combo and control. In truth, Clique is strongest post board, when all the creature removal is gone, but I currently lack the space in my sideboard to take Clique out of the maindeck.

I've been testing Tangle, and I really like it against Zoo. With 8 fetches, I've only once failed to find my Tropical by turn three, and you can often chain one Tangle into another. It's not perfect, as it only buys you 1.5 turns rather than 2, but it helps a great deal. Currently, I'm boarding in 3 Tangle and taking out 1 Brain Freeze (so none in the main deck) and 2 Remand (meaning none in the maindeck). This leaves me Clique as removal for hate bears, which takes some of the pressure off my Wishes.

Currently, my sideboard looks like this:

1 BSZ
1 Brain Freeze
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Rebuild
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hunting Pack
2 Krosan Grip
3 Flusterstorm
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Surgical Extraction

The way I see it, I get a wishboard and then three matches get a sideboard. Currently, I'm boarding for Reanimator/Dredge, Countertop and Combo/Control. I need to make room for my aggro board, and the cards dedicated to Countertop are the narrowest, so I'll probably drop two Grip and something else for three Tangle.

I'm toying with removing Rebuild, but I sometimes side it in where I expect Cannonists (I can still wish for Echoing Truth). I also rarely wish for Turnabout because it is so mana intensive, so that could possibly go.

I'd love to squeeze Snap in there, because I find that bouncing a hatebear before going off (such as Meddling Mage or Cannonist) is very mana intensive, whereas Snap makes the whole process fairly painless. I still feel I ought to have something for Counterbalance, though, even if it's just a single Wipeaway.

[Kanti]

Turnabout might be able to get swapped for Snap. Samish effect but Snap counts as an extra bounce. Run a second BS main or a Snapcaster so you can cut the BS in the board. Still there are games that you eot Wish for a Turnabout, untap, draw, and combo off next turn.

Rebuild is pretty sweet, I woudn't take it out. It's not high wished for, but when I do wish for it it's usually a blow out.

Taking out a Grip for Wipe Away also gives you more bounce.

What do you think of running x1 Snap x1 Brain? My fear is not being able to do mini Brain Freeze's. Still... flashback anything sounds fucking amazing. And it blocks.

Freeze is stronger in hand vs Storm combo though, and double Freeze is good vs CB-Top decks. Oh the drama.

[Silent Requiem]

I've been wondering about dropping down to 6 disruption in the maindeck (4 FoW and 2 Remand), bringing in the 4th Turnabout/Snap and Meditate from the board. This would make my game 1 deck very, very consistent, and it would let me put my Cliques in the sideboard.

It would then be a matter of simply bringing in whatever added disruption I wanted in games 2 & 3.

[Kanti]

What do you think of running Flusterstorm main? I am always siding it in vs blue decks (I usually go -1 Opt, -1 Impulse, -1 Remand if I am on the draw, -2 Opt -1 Impulse if I am on the play)

I also hate Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Hate, hate, hate that guy. I rather have them resolve a Natural Order honestly.

Edit: I actually am thinking about it more and more and Rebuild sucks. No one plays Chalice anymore, or Trinisphere, or anything that harmful really. I'd put a second Truth in it's place. This way vs Zoo you can go +2 Echoing Truth +1 Wipeaway to deal with their hate-bears.

I also went up to 4 Flusterstorms in my sideboard. That card is crazy. It's the best card vs storm and Tempo decks.

[Silent Requiem]

Anyone have any suggestions for stopping Reanimator? I've tried boarding in 4 Flusterstorm and 2 Surgical Extraction, but they simply have too many threats. I'm losing nearly every match.

While I'm loath to devote 4 slots to Leyline of the Void, I don't think it's possible to simply ignore the Reanimator matchup if I have any expectation of making day 2 at Amsterdam.

[cjva]

Anyone have any suggestions for stopping Reanimator? I've tried boarding in 4 Flusterstorm and 2 Surgical Extraction, but they simply have too many threats. I'm losing nearly every match.

While I'm loath to devote 4 slots to Leyline of the Void, I don't think it's possible to simply ignore the Reanimator matchup if I have any expectation of making day 2 at Amsterdam.

I played solidarity at GP Madrid and actually dont think solidarity have a better shot on making day two on this GP. if the goal is to make day two with a high tide list I think any of the lists playing Time Spiral is the Way to go.

personally I Will most like hope on the belcher glasscannon to give me a day two spot.

Edit: and some constructive words. I would have a couple of extractions in the sb like you mentioned. In the past twincast gave me a couple of wins against reanimator. with that Said, the best we can ever hope for is probably a 30/70 mu.

[Kanti]

Back to the gallows with you! If we wanted to play Spiral Tide we would be posting in the Spiral Tide thread. Solidarity, though a bit outdated, is still a decent choice. I'd go as far as to say that it's in a better position now (the Counterbalance era is gone, as is the Mental Misstep one) than it's been in for a while. Snapcaster Mage can be a beating against this deck but he's not that bad. As long as tempo-decks don't go in the direction of Team America it's alright.

Leylines looks alright versus Reanimator but you have to mull into them. Not to mention every Leyline drawn after your starting hand is a dead draw.

They are also probably bringing in some Echoing Truths, which is especially strong vs Leyline, and some Show and Tells (can't do shit but Force or Fluster this one).

I would go with 3 Macabres/1 Extraction to deal with reanimator. Macabre is hit by Stifle and Needle which sucks but it's still pretty good, as it dodges all of their counter-magic. Extraction is randomly good when wished for (I've killed ANT by responding to his combo with a mini-brainfreeze that hit Tendrils, then wishing for Extraction to take away his win-con. I've also wished for Extraction vs Uw Stoneforge today to take out a Force of Will (My opponent only had Spell Snares in hand and I had High Tide+Turnabout+combo in hand). Basically being able to wish for Extraction is pretty awesome.

This is the sb I'm running:
1 Turnabout
1 Meditate
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Hunting Pack
1 Krosan Grip
1 Wipe Away
2 Echoing Truth
3 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Faerie Macabre

I don't think Brain Freeze is necessary in the sideboard if you run 2 of them main-deck.

I also cut Rebuild I was never wishing for it. Echoing Truth is pretty much just as good as it, and it has the added benefit of being sided in with Wipe Away vs decks with hate-bears. I just don't see myself running into many Trinisphere/Chalices.

Don't play Clique though : (. Remand is crazy. You can do so many kills vs blue decks just by casting a bunch of rituals and Brain Freeze>Remanding into a million. That type of kill is really hard to counter as by the time you are going for it you've made a good number of land drops and can just puke every spell out of your hand Belcher style.

Have you also considered cutting a fetchland for another basic? I've done it and so far I can't say I've had trouble finding my Tropical. Like ever. I just hate running into the Stifle/Spell Snare/Spell Pierce tempo decks that just lock me out of mana.

[lebarion]

Anyone have any suggestions for stopping Reanimator? I've tried boarding in 4 Flusterstorm and 2 Surgical Extraction, but they simply have too many threats. I'm losing nearly every match.

While I'm loath to devote 4 slots to Leyline of the Void, I don't think it's possible to simply ignore the Reanimator matchup if I have any expectation of making day 2 at Amsterdam.

I haven't tried it yet, but I think a number of Bribery in the sideboard could be a good option against reanimator. It's a sorcery, I know, but costing 3UU means you can simply High Tide, Turnabout and Bribery in your own turn with ionly 3 islands.
It is a little narrow, but can help against Hive Mind and Sneak'n Show, too, and maybe Dredge.

[Kanti]

Now that I think about it, why aren't we doing the best thing we can possibly can and diversifying graveyard hate? You are bound to face Dredge, and Macabre just freaking sucks vs Dredge. It's better than not having a gy hate spell, but it is not good enough.

Karakas seems like super awesome tech vs Reanimator. I don't know if it would work out in practice though. Still, passed the Extraction I woudn't be set on sb answers. You don't want to die to a wall of Cabal Therapies at the GP.

I was thinking about something like this:

0-1 Faerie Macabre/Karakas/Phantasmal Image
1-2 Surgical Extraction
1-2 Tormod's Crypt
0-1 Relic of Progenitus

Edit: Another piece anti-Reanimator tech could be Phantasmal Image. I'd just run gy hate though, as it hits Dredge. x2 Crypt might be better than the Relic as Reanimator can be quit fast, and getting a Relic Dazed is just dumb.

I'd also side in some bounce vs Reanimator. Atleast x1 Wipe Away and x1 Echoing Truth

[I am the brainwasher]

@How to beat Reanimator:

The tech is really that simple: Curfew/Ravenous Trap

Doesnt eat up much sb-space and is nuts in the 4-wish builds. You could also run Slaughter Pact against Iona, which I personally dislike.

I really wouldnt give up more Slots than these two for a specific MU and IMO those are definetly enough. Normally you are able to buy yourself enough time with Curfew or Trap or drawing counters outta them to go off in the next turns.
I played both Curfew and Ravenous Trap because those are the most flexible and also work against Dredge and S&T/Emrakul-Crap. and could also be useful against 1-st turn Lackey and all that Jazz.
Hope this helps you out, greetings.

[Kanti]

Curfew and Trap don't do too much. I'd run Bribery wayy before I run Curfew. Atleast with Bribery I can fetch Iona for the win, or Jin for the win. Sorcery speed freaking sucks though.

I'd still run gy hate over that though. Dredge will be around, and you are going to auto-lose if you can't deal with them. With 4 gy hate the odds are a little more in your favor for the Dredge/Reanimator match-ups.

I think x2 Crypt will be better though. Dodging Daze on the draw seems nice.

[Seraphus]

How to beat Reanimator:
1st learn to play with solidarity;

How to improve your chances at a GP:
1st don't play solidarity
2nd if you insist on playing solidarity, use a decent non stupid-inventions-techs list

How can you understand this:

YOU CAN'T...

[Kanti]

How to troll in a Solidarity on MTG the Source:

1st. Tell people they need to learn to play when they lose to Reanimator.

2nd. Bitch about their list not being "old-school" enough.

You are something else dude. You realize that both both Silent and I are running lists that are as classic as it gets? (No Cryptic Command, FoI, 4 Tide main, etc). If you don't want to run Hunting Pack and Grip thats your problem. Good luck struggling against people as I drop a load of 4/4's on them.

I've never lost a game to Wasteland with the U/g list. I've gotten neutered by Snaps+Stifle though, so I've gone down to 7 fetches and continue to cast Hunting Pack all day for silly amounts.

So Solidarity isn't the best deck choice? Well thanks but I already had figured that out when people kill me on t2 with protection.

Anyhow, I've gone to play 2 Crypts. I almost never cared about the card drawn with Relic, and was getting pissed that it could be Dazed t1 or t2 on the draw. It's tap ability also isn't THAT useful as a smart opponent will play around it.

[Seraphus]

1st read the post again and tell me where did i say that losing to reanimantor is bad;
2nd you want to use bribery and artifacts LOL continue to be funny how old school is that right?
3rd if you are losing on the t2 than i really advice you either to change deck or to learn how to play it.
4th you must be cousin of the other dude who never fizzled after resolve a meditate LOL (LOL again)
5th still LOLing
6th not loling, do you know that your solution to deal with reanimate sucks? they can combo a second time after you use your tormod's crypt or your relic...
7th and last: I did say that you could not understand what i was telling...

I am going to use Teferi in my deck it's so cool! Ah! And i am going to use my dog to scare the guys at the GP amsterdam...

I am sick of this shit... keep playing with your lists... Keep trying to change without knowing why or what... use instant artifact - oh wait- there's none... Man this is like having Terrorism at MTG! Now everyone thinks that playing solidarity is easy and whatever! LoL... I am done with this shit...

Enjoy doing what you are keeping doing just a little thought on the matter: I am not telling to not experiment, not innovate, i try it too with the Dismembers, i failed and i try another list, but i pondered about every change every interactions, probability, matches, playability of the cards i introduce do you want an example: Look at piracy charm that's a card to think about it kills many cards that you don't like, Vendilion, spellstutter, confidant, lynx, snapcaster and can be useful vs combo by making them discard a card... Is it playable? I think not since you will not cantrip even if it buy another 3 turns its complicated to generate card disadvantage... and whatever... Either way i know that no matter what i say here you won't give a fuck about it... So good luck.. and one thing: don't bother to answer or be pissed about my post... I am done with the source and with this shit...

[Kanti]

Yay you are leaving! : )!!!

I don't see how Crypt is bad at all. We play in a meta that has a Tier 1 graveyard with FoW's. And you know, you use Crypt at INSTANT SPEED.

Yes, I know what you are telling me, and it's retarded. How does one even expiriment with the sideboard? Your sideboard is meta dependant. Are you still playing Hydroblasts in your sideboard for flavor or what dude?

[KevinTrudeau]

Some questions for the people splashing green for Hunting Pack— are you usually Wishing for Hunting Pack on a noncombo turn, or are you grabbing it while you're going off? Has it helped the deck at all increase the turn three percentage? I've liked the idea of a sort of Empty the Warrens-style alt. win con. (not necessarily in terms of speed, but in the sense that you don't need to fully go off to win) ever since Vacrix brought it up last year, and I'm just curious.

@Kanti- I'd try to stray away from cards that interact with the opponent's gameplan but don't contribute to ours/mesh well with ours at all [Tormod's Crypt, Bribery (which especially sounds dreadful), etc.] if I were you. 'Twould really suck looking at a Crypt as the fourth card off of a desperation Impulse when you really needed to find some gas on your combo turn and had flipped three blanks prior to the Crypt. At the very least, try Ravenous Trap or Surgical Extraction before artifact-based grave hate.

[GoldenCid]

experiment, not innovate, i try it too with the Dismembers, i failed and i try another list, ...

I failed too! Sometimes dismember is great, indeed! But i it's a card that can only act if your oppo lands a creature, this is obvious i know, but against combo, or decks with huge craters, sneak attack, big goyfs, No-bant it has a hessitating role. I tried it with repeal, maybe i'll try the verison with cliques + snaps which at worst can use the snaps with your cliques...however i'm not pretty convinced...

[Kanti]

Grave decks will rip you to shreds unless you side hate. Reanimator will just land a fatty, and Dredge decks will Cabal you to death then reanimate a huge Troll. I didn't suggest Bribery by the way, but did say it was pretty interesting.

I woudn't play this deck without the gy hate in the sideboard. Meditating into Trap or Extraction is just as bad as doing so into a Crypt.

Past Extracting a Jin, the card is usually give you a 1-for-1. I would always play atleast 1 Extraction in my sideboard though, as it's an amazing Wish targets (I've wished for the card a couple of times to win the game). It is decent vs Dredge, you can a target early, or hit Therapies a little later in the game.

Macabre is an all star vs Reanimator but sucks vs Dredge for the most part (I've exiled some Therapies with it, but this doesn't always work out).

Tormod's on the other hand is really good vs Reanimator and Dredge. It gets past Daze t1/t2 (free to activate and it costs 0 mana), and is amazing vs Dredge as you can hit a large chunk of cards. The one problem with this card is that you can't eot Meditate into it and cast it, or Meditate into it during a counter-war. I guess you can just main-phase Meditate though, and drop it.

Edit: Sometimes I will Wish for Pack eot vs a blue deck. It depends how much pressure I am under and how much mana/counters I have access to. It's really good that way as on your next turn you can just drop all of your rituals and Pack for a lot for the win.

If I have enough resources though I will grab it when going off. Sometimes I do the math and figure I can't really keep comboing and hope to win, so I cut it short and just Wish for Hunting Pack.

The best thing about Pack is that it allows you to go off with almost nothing. With 5 lands you can go High Tide-Reset, Reset, Wish, 1cc, Pack for 5 4/4's. That is sometimes enough if you've gotten in an earlier counter-war. It gets even easier with 6 lands as you can go Reset, Turnabout, Wish, Impulse, Pack. Those seemingy shit 5 spells can untap you to attack for 20.

[Dark Ritual]

Surgical extraction and/or ravenous trap is the only hate I would pack against GY based decks. I don't see why you would run any of the artifact GY hate or faerie macabre; You can wish for both surgical and trap as well G1, which is useful if you remand an exhume/animate dead and next turn respond with wish -> extraction on your iona.

I have never played slaughter pact in solidarity; the only out to a resolved iona is the opponent going full retard afterwards and naming purple as the color or something.

Also the go to reanimator target for reanimator against this deck is iona. I don't see why it would be jin; we could potentially mini brainfreeze them to make them lose with the draw 7 on the stack. Iona just straight wins.

Solidarity has a bad MU against reanimator though; you have to get lucky to win in my experience against them and sack pretty hard.

But for hate against reanimator I just suggest wish targets for it in the form of extraction and/or rav. trap. They help somewhat but wish costs 3 so you have to stall before hand. And flusterstorm also helps since it counters nearly all their spells sans animate dead.

Okay Seraphus good day have fun with your 'oldschool' list (dismember is hardly oldschool and I see zero reason to run dismember in here, the card is awful in this deck in fact any card that says pay 4 life to help against aggro is awful).

[Seraphus]

Yay you are leaving! : )!!!

I don't see how Crypt is bad at all. We play in a meta that has a Tier 1 graveyard with FoW's. And you know, you use Crypt at INSTANT SPEED.

Yes, I know what you are telling me, and it's retarded. How does one even expiriment with the sideboard? Your sideboard is meta dependant. Are you still playing Hydroblasts in your sideboard for flavor or what dude?

"Dude", you r the one completly retarded, i didn't experiment with sb, i suggest u to read the previews posts... You'r so narrow minded that you unknowingly say that you can play a tormod's crypt at instant speed... Persist on your ideas if you think that using a crypt vs emrakul is the same as a trap but once again your wrong... Your impulsive post show a clearly lack of experience with the deck, you clearly lack the understanding of cards like remand and etc... further more you show a lack of understanding on the deck it self: instant speed meaning being able to play any card in resp to something (do you know that one of the main problems of this deck is Reset that is also our best advantage card? No? don't understand what i am saying? oh well...)
As the Hydroblast go, no i never (or almost never) play with Hydroblast, my tournaments winnings and my top 8's were with lists that compensate the speed that red based decks had: fast zoo, mono-red, goblins etc. But many times that's a risk, hydroblast can be a strategy vs this kind of decks. But once again you are inconsistent "sb is meta dependant you" said. We all need to play a lot, learn a lot from each other but not with this kind of path that you'r trying to create for a long time, this deck was once the tier1 of the tier1s, not it's abandoned. The question lay before us: it's still playable? I think so, but requires many work that many can think that it's not worthy...

I returned here thanks to the curiosity of seeing what was answered to my post, and you didn't disappointed me, you fail presenting any kind of argument value to any of the things i mentioned...

@Kevin: thanks for explain to him the problem of non-instant cards.

@GoldenCid: 1st let me explain the why of the dismember: pre banning the deck that was really annoying me was NO RUG so dismember seemed the best answer: it kills dryad, noble, goyf etc avoiding the NO plan to be put at a very very early clock so post banning i thought to myself why not keep it? i was wrong snapcaster + snap was really good when combine in a right way (the amount of each that i wanted to use); after that and 3 weeks after the banning i can probably say that the meta is already defining itself so i made some calculation and assume my risk preparing to Amsterdam with a sb that's focused on beating some kind of matches, i assume for example that vs merfolks i hardly will win in a pre-sb match however post boarded match (meaning the largest amount of matches that we play at a tournament) it's another story. I can say to you that dismember is still part of my sb (the capability of killing a cannonist is insane or a Meddling mage equiped with a sword of fire and ice).


Another thought: i do think that the HP plan is good but i would put the tropical in the sb...

Regards to you all, hope that all of you find the best way of playing this deck, don't let it die, and i really hope that you succeed on build something very good.