[Deck] Goblins

[liamb]

After last GP and SCG Open I feel that the meta shift towards:
1) the blue-based control deck including the snapcaster mage: UWx Counter-top deck (the winner of GP Amsterdam), UW stoneblade, BUG/team America decks
2) blue-based tempo decks, RUG tempo (the winer of b-more scg open), next level Canadian Threshold, stifle-naught
3) mid-range aggro decks: Bant and Maverick
4) non-storm combo decks – Sneak Show, Hive Mind, Painters, Reanimator
5) storm-combo decks (ANT, TES) and a-like (High Tide).

If the tendency will maintain the storm-combo will fall a victim to counterbalance decks which I think is good for goblins. So there’s a hope to see goblins once again. Still – in some point I share the opinion with Gobolord – first Knight of Reliquary, than Stoneforge Mystic and now Snapcaster Mage may be too much for our green friends.

[BigBopper]

I believe the Tinkerer should be a singleton Skirk Prospector. Prospector gives you the ability to sack your own guys to get more damage out of Sharpshooter, and he lets you sack guys before damage in the combat steps which prevents Batterskull from gaining life and keeps Jitte from gaining counters and also lets you get rid of those pesky Bridge from Bellows. Seriously, run 1 Skirk Prospector.

Thanks for your report and congrats on your finish, although your T8 didn't work out as we hoped it would be. I think I do share your philosophy on playing goblins as I already did when you were playing a playset of MM. After its banning I substituted the cards with the skirk prospecter package=2 MWM + skirk and it works pretty good, especially when you get sharpshooter online with prospecter on the board. And you can just ramp your ringleaders in with warchief and MWM. Only thing I'd change is the chieftain for the 4th piledriver. I also don't miss the 2nd SCG. Sorry Mantis, can't agree with you on this. I also felt like 2 artifact removals MD are too much. I'd play tinkerer SB, 'cause he's amazing vs. factories.
I still hope for a goblin boost in near future just like it came after the last heavy black block.
How did Wort turn out for you? You just mentioned her once and it seemed like it gave you a good backup for the game-cycling a single gempalm 3 times is quite some card advantage.

[Mantis]

With only 28 goblins, how were your Ringleaders? How about post-sb, where you dilute yourself even more?

I am not too concerned about Ringleader. Almost always, getting to resolve a Ringleader is game over not matter if you have 28 or 34 Goblins in your deck. Then, the Goblins you really want to hit off Ringleader are Matron, Ringleader and Siege Gang and I actually play more copies of those cards than other Goblin builds. Usually, when you start hitting Ringleader you are constrained by mana not by buisiness spells.

Flipping over Skirk Prospector, Piledriver or Mogg War Marshall instead of a Bolt will rarely turn a lost game into a win. Also, keep in mind that Relic increases your odds of drawing into the good Goblins (Ringleader, Matron, SGC).

Having lost against those decks, do you reconsider ReB now?

I definitely missed REB and wished I played it. I will need to revise my sideboard. No telling how the games against Spiral Tide and Show and Tell went with REB, but I could potentially have won them. Not playing REB was the only thing I regret about my list. (Although I made have overprepared for Reanimator a bit too..)

Would Knesis be better than Bolt?

I love Bolt. I won 2 games by burning my opponent with Siege Gang and Bolt when he had a superior board presence. Furthermore Jace TMS in combination with a solid amount of removal is how you lose to BUG and Bolt helps a lot in this regard. Then, I don't have much trouble with creature decks.

How was the single Chrome Mox?

I didn't play it, partially because I was too lazy to obtain a Chrome Mox (I don't own one) and partially because I felt more comfortable with a Mountain in the end. Regardless, Chrome Mox or Mountain #18 is a matter we should discuss here and one that we should reach consensus on eventually as it's probably beneficial to all of us

Did you miss any goblin in that list? (Sharpshooter, Scrapper...)?

No not really. Honestly, how often do you fetch anything other than Ringleader, Siege Gang, Stingscourger or Gempalm? I can definitely envision scenarios where you want Sharpshooter, Scrapper or w/e but most of those scenario's can be handled with your other Goblins. The flipside is that you they will get stuck in your hand and suck at the most inconvient times.

3e game: First hand: 3x 3-drops, Aether Vial, 3 lands. Mull to 6.

Why mull this?

[Nixx]

Why mull this?

Because there is absolutely no pressure in my hand. Going second it will be turn 3 before my first goblin arives. Goblins can kill in turn 3, so can affinity!

[from Cairo]

Because there is absolutely no pressure in my hand. Going second it will be turn 3 before my first goblin arives. Goblins can kill in turn 3, so can affinity!

Yea definitely. Can't keep a hand with no action til T3 against Affinity. Versus control I could see keeping especially if one of the lands is a Rishadan Port.

[liamb]

Old love never fades. After trying out various builds of Zoo, a homebrew deck and Dredge, I once again turn to Goblins for GP Amsterdam. But as we all have noticed, times have changed. Canadian Threshold is back and with GW Maverick we have another player. Combo has surged since the banning of Mental Misstep and it seems Show and Tell has been abandonded. Meanwhile Goblins easiest matchup, Merfolk has lost some popularity. But in these dark times, hope shimmers as players underestimate Goblins and don't pack Engineered Plague.

To prepare for this field, I quickly decided Lightning Bolt was insane and 4 are in order. I then noticed how many of the popular archetypes and cards rely on graveyards: Goyf, Lavamancer, Tombstalker, Snapcaster Mage, dredge and Reanimator. I have done this before and will now do it again: maindeck Relic of Progenitus. Sacrifices have to be made and my most radical change is cutting Goblin Piledriver down to just 1. I read an article of Richard Feldman regarding dredge and he did not play any specific Dread Return targets claiming that he was just as happy to take a scrappy victory with Ichorid, Narcomoeba and Putrid Imp beats and that he could always animate a large Grave Troll. Goblin Piledriver gives you the sweet taste of swinging in for 15 damage, but he does not help you establish control in a precarious situation. In other words, I feel like Piledriver is winmore and this feeling is excacerbated by the decline of Merfolk. I still like having 1 to be able to tutor with Matron.

Goblin Warchief, Piledriver and Matron work very well together. If we cut Piley, Warchief loses a lot of it's power. Without Piledriver, Goblins becomes much more focused on the control role and we should maximize the power of our cards. For this reason I chose to play Goblin Chieftain over Warchief.

// Lands
17 [SHM] Mountain (1)
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
2 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
4 [US] Goblin Matron
4 [ZEN] Warren Instigator
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
3 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
1 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
2 [PLC] Stingscourger
4 [M10] Goblin Chieftain

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [B] Lightning Bolt
2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
1 [MR] Chrome Mox

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [SOM] Arc Trail
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre

Sideboard is focused on helping me deal with the hardest matchups: combo and Reanimator. Notably, there are no REBs. I felt like they were always underwhelming, ANT honestly doesn't care too much.

I just played couple of games with this build (well slightly modified) and it's well... surprisingly good. I will test it tomorrow on the small tournament.

[ScatmanX]

Because there is absolutely no pressure in my hand. Going second it will be turn 3 before my first goblin arives. Goblins can kill in turn 3, so can affinity!

I guess the real question should be: What are Vials still doing in your deck?
Taking Weirdings out is certainly wrong.
Also, they should stay against Enchantress, as the only way of killing their 0/1.

[Nixx]

I guess the real question should be: What are Vials still doing in your deck?
Taking Weirdings out is certainly wrong.
Also, they should stay against Enchantress, as the only way of killing their 0/1.

I also had Gempalm Incinerator in my deck. Every time an enchantress appeared, I burned it straight away.

The comment about the Vial in my deck against Affinity is centainly a good one. I haven't thought about that...

[Vandalize]

I also had Gempalm Incinerator in my deck. Every time an enchantress appeared, I burned it straight away.

The comment about the Vial in my deck against Affinity is centainly a good one. I haven't thought about that...

I don't really know how the hell you can burn Argothian Enchantress, but If you can, you're pretty awsome.

AEther Vial is pretty slow against Affinity, because they just drop their hand as easy as that. You're better off siding in some removal (like Pyrokinesis/Ancient Grudge) in those Vial's places.

[End3r000]

I played in a small SCG IQ yesterday and posted a 3-1 record with the deck losing only to bad keeps against merfolk. Ended up winning the Invite, and was quite pleased with the deck. Beat G/B ANT round 1, 2-1. Lost to my friend on Merfolk 1-2. Beat Zoo 2-1. Roflstomped NO Bant 2-0. Split top 4 and I got the invite. First time I had ever played the deck and I was quite pleased with it, to the point I'm thinking of picking up the cards.

[Nixx]

I don't really know how the hell you can burn Argothian Enchantress, but If you can, you're pretty awsome.

AEther Vial is pretty slow against Affinity, because they just drop their hand as easy as that. You're better off siding in some removal (like Pyrokinesis/Ancient Grudge) in those Vial's places.

Well...... I managed to do that....
Besides, my opponent also thought that I could target him with Gempalm Incinerator. I didn't try that.

Yes, I would have done that if I would have had run any of those cards.
I was playing with my sideboard cards and decided not to use them at the last moment.
Also didn't run any Cabal Therapy because I don't know the enviroment very well and didn't know for 100% which cards to name.

[aequi]

I played in a small SCG IQ yesterday and posted a 3-1 record with the deck losing only to bad keeps against merfolk. Ended up winning the Invite, and was quite pleased with the deck. Beat G/B ANT round 1, 2-1. Lost to my friend on Merfolk 1-2. Beat Zoo 2-1. Roflstomped NO Bant 2-0. Split top 4 and I got the invite. First time I had ever played the deck and I was quite pleased with it, to the point I'm thinking of picking up the cards.

which deck? one of the user's deck listet in this thread?

@ all:

I played at GP Amsterdam, it was my first tournament. I boarded out the Vials almost every time, because I wasnt playing against any deck with counterspells (only one time).

1. when do I side out the vials?
2.could there be a change to not run the vials maindeck because of the new metagame?

[aequi]

I played in a small SCG IQ yesterday and posted a 3-1 record with the deck losing only to bad keeps against merfolk. Ended up winning the Invite, and was quite pleased with the deck. Beat G/B ANT round 1, 2-1. Lost to my friend on Merfolk 1-2. Beat Zoo 2-1. Roflstomped NO Bant 2-0. Split top 4 and I got the invite. First time I had ever played the deck and I was quite pleased with it, to the point I'm thinking of picking up the cards.

which deck? one of the user's deck listet in this thread?

@ all:

I played at GP Amsterdam, it was my first tournament. I boarded out the Vials almost every time, because I wasnt playing against any deck with counterspells (only one time).

1. when do I side out the vials?
2.could there be a change to not run the vials maindeck because of the new metagame?

[Nameless Two]

Some more t3 kills, this puzzler forgot combinations using Warren Weirding

T1 Goblin Lackey
T2 Goblin Piledriver + Goblin Piledriver
T3 Warren Weirding + Goblin Lackey

T1 Goblin Lackey
T2 Goblin Piledriver + Goblin Warchief
T3 Warren Weirding + Goblin Chieftain

T1 Goblin Lackey
T2 Goblin Piledriver + Goblin Warchief
T3 MWM + Warren Weirding

T1 Goblin Lackey
T2 Goblin Warchief + MWM + Warren Weirding
T3 Goblin Chieftain + MWM

T1 Goblin Lackey
T2 Goblin Warchief + MWM + Warren Weirding
T3 Goblin Matron + Goblin Piledriver

And then there are probably some elaborate skirk prospector options for using warren weirding in t3 kills.
And Chrome Mox + Instigator options which I won't delve into for now.

Also a question, when you play against zoo, like Nixx did. And you can open with either vial or lackey (no chalice in hand). Isn't it right to play vial? It seems to me that lackey will never make it through against most zoo lists. And vial on turn one is much better than on turn 2.

[Nixx]

Also a question, when you play against zoo, like Nixx did. And you can open with either vial or lackey (no chalice in hand). Isn't it right to play vial? It seems to me that lackey will never make it through against most zoo lists. And vial on turn one is much better than on turn 2.

If you are first then I would play:
Turn 1: Play Lackey
If the opponent plays a creature.
Turn 2: Warren Weirding + Attack with Lackey, put Warchief into play.

If you are second:
Turn 1: Play Aether Vial

[boneclub24]

I'm wondering how you guys think this deck will stand in the future? I'm really liking playing it with proxies and online, but I'm not sure if I should invest in it when there is also Merfolk which might be more competitive but less enjoyable to me in the future.

[ScatmanX]

Also a question, when you play against zoo, like Nixx did. And you can open with either vial or lackey (no chalice in hand). Isn't it right to play vial? It seems to me that lackey will never make it through against most zoo lists. And vial on turn one is much better than on turn 2.

I'd always go for Vial. A good Zoo player, on the draw, wouldn't play a creature facing a Lackey. He'd StP/PtE/Chain Lightning/Bolt it. Even Monored has acess to Stingscourger to deal with one creature to connect Lackey.

About siding Vial: I do it only against really fast decks, where card advantage don't really matters. That's the case of Affinity, Elves, and used to be against UG Survival, where you just want to disrupt their gameplan a little do kill them. Against Zoo though, you want to win in the mid-late game. Your little creatures stall, while you up Vial/gather lands, ro chain Matrons/Ringleaders, and overwhelm them with creatures.

@Boneclub: Goblins is still very good, but if I had money to invest in a deck now, it would be in a Force of Will deck.

[End3r000]

which deck? one of the user's deck listet in this thread?

It was a personal list.

4 [card]Goblin Lackey[/card]
4 [card]Goblin Piledriver[/card]
4 [card]Goblin Matron[/card]
4 [card]Goblin Ringleader[/card]
4 [card]Goblin Warchief[/card]
4 [card]Mogg War Marshal[/card]
3 [card]Goblin Chieftan[/card]
2 [card]Siege-Gang Commander[/card]
2 [card]Gempalm Incinerator[/card]
1 [card]Goblin Sharpshooter[/card]

4 [card]Aether Vial[/card]
2 [card]Warren Weirding[/card]

4 [card]Mountain[/card]
4 [card]Badlands[/card]
4 [card]Auntie's Hovel[/card]
4 [card]Bloodstained Mire[/card]
4 [card]Wasteland[/card]
2 [card]Rishadan Port[/card]

Sideboard
4 [card]Leyline of the Void[/card]
4 [card]Chalice of the Void[/card]
3 [card]Pyrokinesis[/card]
1 [card]Warren Weirding[/card]
1 [card]Goblin Tinkerer[/card]
1 [card]Boartusk Liege[/card]
and a last card I can't remember.

Against ANT he mulled down to 6 on the draw and I set up a fast clock and won. Game 2 he had the turn 1. Game 3 he mulled down to 5 and I had Chalice on 1 turn 2.

Merfolk I put the beatdown game 1. Game 2 he had a 5 lord hand and went crazy. Game 3 I mulled to 6 and kept 3 lands/3 lords and quickly lost.

Zoo had all the removal game 1 and they got there. Games 2 and 3 I blew him out with Pyrokinesis.

NO Bant resolved a turn 4 NO but I had 8 gobbos and quickly fetched a second piledriver to finish it game 1. Game 2 he attempts to race me but I had a turn 3 Siege-Gang plus 8 other goblins by turn 4 to just swing in for the win.

[orcanmail]

Does anyone know how vial goblins placed at the GP Amsterdam, or where to find out? Also whether they were mono red or splash colours? I could only find the top 8 decklists which we weren't in! It would be good to know, thanks.

[jrw1985]

Thanks for your report and congrats on your finish, although your T8 didn't work out as we hoped it would be. I think I do share your philosophy on playing goblins as I already did when you were playing a playset of MM. After its banning I substituted the cards with the skirk prospecter package=2 MWM + skirk and it works pretty good, especially when you get sharpshooter online with prospecter on the board. And you can just ramp your ringleaders in with warchief and MWM. Only thing I'd change is the chieftain for the 4th piledriver. I also don't miss the 2nd SCG. Sorry Mantis, can't agree with you on this. I also felt like 2 artifact removals MD are too much. I'd play tinkerer SB, 'cause he's amazing vs. factories.
I still hope for a goblin boost in near future just like it came after the last heavy black block.
How did Wort turn out for you? You just mentioned her once and it seemed like it gave you a good backup for the game-cycling a single gempalm 3 times is quite some card advantage.

Wort is slow, but she's a late game beating. If your opponent still has a grip full of removal then you'd better play Ringleader instead, but if hands are depleted Wort can generate sustained card advantage (or throw mutliple Weirdings at an Enchantress deck, Reanimator, whatevs). She is pretty slow for Legacy, but she also lets you be tricky, and running a 5th 4 drop isn't so bad for your vials. Really though, you're going to want Ringleader most of the time. Immediate card advantage is better than potential CA.