GP Amsterdam Top 8

[DerFern]

As a friend of Abel Planting (23rd) I can tell you he played at least 7 blue opponents on day 1 (one bye, one round I'm not sure because I got in extra time).

On day two, he played twice against a nonblue deck.

are you surprised? Everybody claimed this to be GP: Stormcombo and people simply have been prepared. Actually, that is what metagaming is about. I´d really love the Hatfields compile all the data like they do for SCG so we can see how TES/Ant/DDFT in general have been crushed by the meta.
Playing a Thresh variant seemed like the best call there...
Anyway, despite the worst beats I got in a looooong time this weekend I love the fact that I do not need to worry about my LEDs getting banned anytime soon :)

[Bahamuth]

I don't like to repeat myself, but as i suspected combo is on a rise, goblin is still dead and pure control decks (UW stoneforge) and NORUg decks are dead too (midrange however still placed one in T8, picture me surprised). I expected Liliana to place at least a copy in this T8 though. Maybe the meta is just too fast for Liliana now, and NO strategies apparently disappearing aren't helping the card either.

And lol at those Nimble Mongoose! It's 2008 all over again.

UW Stoneblade was everywhere on the higher tables day 2. Liliana not being in the Top 8 doesn't mean shit (the entire top8 doesn't mean shit).

[I am the brainwasher]

Not that I want to bitch around or something, but the essential problem (or at least one of them) at the moment is that if you are not playing blue, you have to be aware that you'll loose against pretty much all decks that are capable of doing rather "unfair stuff".
I personally think that decks that dont let people play Magic, like S&T - decks (both Hive Mind and Sneak-Show), are a major problem.
There are tons of different decks available right now that have a decent shot at winning against all sort of different control/aggro-control and are non-blue, but this is all pearls before swine if you sure know that you will get filtered out by 2-3 turn combo relativeley constant, especially in bigger tourneys. I still wish that someone could explain to me why cards like S&T do exist in the format while Earthcraft is banned. That makes no sense at all.
I am not quite sure if it is healthy that you have to play decks with a shitload of countermagic or have to accept that you simply cant beat some decks if you are not playing against a complete idiot.
For example, anyone who tried to beat Hive Mind with decks like Maverick, Goblins, Zoo, Rock (and basically every other decks that isnt blue, well even some that play blue...) does know what I am talking about. You really cant steal more than maybe 1 or 2 games out of 10 and IF you do, thats based upon the opponent getting pretty unlucky with Mulligans or simply variance. Yes, those decks are that good.
The metagame is just unhealthy because of the existence of those cards. There is simply no need to make an own science out of Legacy and the spot it is in IMO because it really is that simple atm.
Dont get this wrong, most storm-based combo decks are fine though, because a lot of different hate is available in each color and you have a bit of time (even its rather short) to prepare for the turn they go off, plus those decks normally cant afford to waste so many sb slots for cards like Leyline of Sanctity (and also couldnt bear as many Mulls like 2-card combo-decks) to get potent weapons against non-blue disruption, because the hate that those deck face is so diverse.
Allowing more decks to have their place in the Legacy-Metagame would be healthy, but this isnt kept in check by the sheer power of cards like Brainstorm (I still think Brainstorm is hilarious though) but of cards that simply say a big fat "NO!" to way too many decks that could regulate the meta quite niceley.
Sadly, yes, I also see no reason not to play blue right now. Feeling that you are a buy to your opponent is just awkward and frustrating and if magic is really about having a good time, even (or especially) on a competetive level, factors need to be removed from the equation that keeps the game away from beeing healthy and fun to play.
I am aware that S&T decks are heavily underplayed (at least in europe) since its boom/bust in the US, but this has nothing to do with the deck beeing way too unhealthy for the format.
Luckily GP: Amsterdam might have the force of expression that more players, and much more important the DCI, recognize that it is just wrong that those cards exist in Legacy.

Greetings

[Gheizen64]

UW Stoneblade was everywhere on the higher tables day 2. Liliana not being in the Top 8 doesn't mean shit (the entire top8 doesn't mean shit).

Everywhere on the top tables, consistently outperformed by Bant variants. Dunno how do you want to call that.

Also liliana placed a lot of copies in the T32 even if it didn't break into T8, looking the T32 lists now.

[Hof]

Top 8

Seems like Countertop is back Oo
I was also wondering that there is no combo at all, except that lone ANT.
Saw many High Tide players day 1 tough.

Thoughts on that?

The novelty and power of Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage has convinced extraordinarily many players to play blue aggro-control, and this IMO, is the reason why combo decks was struggling to compete at GP Amsterdam.

[Lemnear]

Wait!

People argued that misstep needs a ban so the meta gets "more diverse" and now that is is gone we use the same phrase to argue against cards that are rarely played just because of "that they might be able to do" to goldfishes? Really?

You decide against a deck because somewhere can lure a card that can beat you and so you want it banned just in case of? Is that that you suggest, brainwasher?

[Trentemoller]

Me and my friend got 15th and 16th with Sneaky Show and it certainly is true that most non-blue decks are a bye (except for Belcher and Dredge), however against blue decks they are certainly intense matches where you can outplay each other and these decks are flawed against faster combo decks. Also against the bye-matchups, other decks can easily outrace you if you stumble finding either part of the combo. My first round I had a sick opener G2 against merfolk (Island Tomb SnT Force Daze SpellPierce Ponder) and he applied no pressure at all, and I still lost because I bricked in 15 draws or so. To be honest I think most other combo decks have even better matchups against non-blue decks, I just think this deck is better positioned in the metagame because it sidesteps most combo hate (like Canonist, half Teeg, Mindbreak Trap, Chalice).

[Humphrey]

DAY1 METAGAME:

Reanimator 8.50%
Ad Nauseam Tendrils 6.50%
Merfolk 6%
Maverick (GW beatdown/control with Aven Mindcensor) 5.50%
UW Stoneforge (two of them splashing red, two of them splashing black) 5.50%
Burn 5%
Canadian Threshold with Delver of Secrets 4.50%
Zoo 4.50%
Affinity 3.50%
UB Snapcaster Control 3.50%
BUG 3%
Junk 3%
Team America 3%
Sneak Attack 2.50%
Elves 2.50%
High Tide 2%
Dredge 2%
Bant 2%
Goblins 1.50%
Delver of Secrets UB 1.50%
Deadguy Ale 1%
Doomsday 1%
Enchantress 1%
Others 21



DAY2 METAGAME:

Canadian Threshold 13.33%
Team America 9.78%
ANT 8.44%
UW Stoneforge 8.00%
Maverick 7.56%
Reanimator 5.78%
Bant 5.33%
Merfolk 4.00%
Dredge 3.11%
NO Bant 3.11%
Elves 2.22%
Aggro Loam 1.78%
Darkblade 1.78%
Sneak Attack 1.78%
UB snapcaster control 1.78%
UWR Stoneforge 1.78%
Zoo 1.78%
Goblins 1.33%
Hive Mind 1.33%
Painters Servant 1.33%
Belcher 0.89%
BUG landstill 0.89%
Burn 0.89%
Deadguy Ale 0.89%
NO RUG 0.89%
Pattern Hulk 0.89%
BUG 0.44%
BW aggro 0.44%
Caw Go 0.44%
Countertop Bant 0.44%
CounterTop/Thopter Sword 0.44%
Dark Depths GWB 0.44%
Doomsday 0.44%
GB Pox 0.44%
Grixis Control 0.44%
Grixis Wizard beats 0.44%
High Tide 0.44%
Junk 0.44%
Lands 0.44%
Landstill 0.44%
Mono Brown Metalworker 0.44%
Past in Flames 0.44%
RUGstill 0.44%
Trinket Mage Burn 0.44%
UB Dreadnought control 0.44%
URW Dreadnought 0.44%
Veteran Explorer Junk 0.44%

[Roel]

I don't think NO R/U/G is dead. I made it to day 2 with 7-2 (No bye's). I only had mayor problems with Maverick decks, they gave me 3 losses. Too bad people don't play this deck anymore (0,89% day2) and therefor you won't see NO RUG that much on the higher tables. I ended 106th out of 1900.

[catmint]

I think the number of TA% on day 2 is mixed up with BUG.
TC decks does the same. That's why TA has the most Tops - just mix 2 different decks, because the play the same colors...

[Humphrey]

I think the number of TA% on day 2 is mixed up with BUG.
TC decks does the same. That's why TA has the most Tops - just mix 2 different decks, because the play the same colors...

No. BUG is not TA on this list.

[Dark Ritual]

Glad to see canadian thresh doing so well. My list of canadian is one card off MD from the 2nd place list; I played the 3rd dismember over his lone F/I.

As for brainstorm getting banned, don't do it WotC. Unless you really want legacy to die you will leave brainstorm alone. If it gets banned I'm done with legacy, period.

Then again the high number's of thresh were probably because it smashes combo regardless of what they're trying to do and has a decent shot against everything else besides.

[menace13]

I actually agree wholly with your conclusion. The issue I had was that the only argument against the banning of Brainstorm in this thread was "Stop whining and play Modern." Brainstorm is overpowered, like you say. When a card puts up numbers like this and you know that the card is a key component in propelling these decks to where they are, if someone wants to call into question whether this presence is merely ubiquity or something outright dangerous, the only defense people seem to have for this card is "Don't start that shit because I love Brainstorm." But at the end of the day, I think the perception that everyone has that Legacy would take a heavy blow from losing the card is enough to stop it from being banned, because you have to cater to your audience when it comes to the game, and it's clear that most of the audience wants Brainstorm. Hell, I might even quit if Brainstorm were banned; I just don't think that I have the right to act like Brainstorm is actually undeserving of some action against it, nor do I believe that it is so untouchable that I would attack the character of someone who thinks it could be banned.

This is not the thread for it and I don't want to go back and forth, but I do want to make sure I am not misunderstood.

I do have the right to act like Brainstorm is undeserving. So does anyone who plays the game-just like anyone is free to argue for bannings-. There weren't any attacks from me on a persons character for suggesting Brainstorm gets the ban, but there are alternatives if you don't like the format- Modern-.

It certianly is everywhere and everyone knows it is one of the best cards in Magic, no arguments on that.

Legacy is the last Format left where Brainstorm is legal as a 4 off. Think about that for a minute and let it sink in. Nowhere else can anyone play with a full set of them. I would argue that for me Legacy is only fun because I get to play Brainstorms. Banning it would make the format unappealing for many players.

Blue will always be the best color in true eternal formats, always. WotC knows that and I'm sure they will continue to make attempts at creating other formats where Blue isn't as powerful.

[CorpT]

I love the 31st place deck. That thing is just awesome looking.

[OurSerratedDust]

Instead of banning Brainstorm, Wizards needs to stop printing stupid cards like Snapcaster Mage and Mental Misstep that only encourage blue's dominance.

EDIT: Why was there only one Zoo deck in the top 32? What happened there?

[Aggro_zombies]

Instead of banning Brainstorm, Wizards needs to stop printing stupid cards like Snapcaster Mage and Mental Misstep that only encourage blue's dominance.

EDIT: Why was there only one Zoo deck in the top 32? What happened there?

Looking at Humphrey's posted day one/day two percentages, Zoo just did really badly this tournament. Day One had a lot of combo decks and Day Two had a lot of grindy blue decks and the Zoo players probably didn't have the sideboard cards for both.

[Cthuloo]

EDIT: Why was there only one Zoo deck in the top 32? What happened there?

Taking an educated guess, the meta was too crowded with combo decks: the metagame breakdown from day 1 shows how more than 20% of the field was highly hostile to zoo. In fact, apparently zoo made up 4.5% of the starting meta, but only 1.78% of the field on day 2 ( which means exacly 4 players, if I didn't mess the math ).

Edit: what Aggro_zombies just wrote

[I am the brainwasher]

Wait!

People argued that misstep needs a ban so the meta gets "more diverse" and now that is is gone we use the same phrase to argue against cards that are rarely played just because of "that they might be able to do" to goldfishes? Really?

You decide against a deck because somewhere can lure a card that can beat you and so you want it banned just in case of? Is that that you suggest, brainwasher?

Nope. Thats definetly not what I suggest. By the way, I play Canadian Threshold most of the time, not because of the existence of derranged Combo-decks (you have to admit that the Hive Mind MU is maybe not the worst...), just because I like the deck, nearly since the beginning of Legacy (NQGr bioatches) and think it has the best chances in an open field, delver or not. Nothing in between my deckchoice and my oppinion on the topic and the state of Legacy.
I saw that unnecessary comment coming as I finished my post, but hoped it could have been shown better to me... . Well, I should have known it better.
The deck and the card S&T is broken and definetly keeps a shitload of decks away from beeing playable and, as stated out from players of the deck right here, the deck just simply says: play not blue and I fart in your dinner (and if I feels so maybe peeing also in your soup).
I guess you didnt got the point of my comment as well as the fact that ESPECIALLY this decks is a problem for the formats health.

[Oiolosse]

play not blue and I fart in your dinner (and if I feels so maybe peeing also in your soup).

If Amsterdam was full of quips such as these then I really, really missed out :(

About Brainstorm. Would a lot of you guys really quit if it were banned? It has nostalgia for me as well and I would be pissed off but I wouldn't want to quit. Blue and combo would be weakened which would open up the diversity quite a bit. The fundamental turn would be about a turn slower allowing mid-range decks to compete.

But I think the remedy is too print better cards/answers in other colors and leave Brainstorm legal.

[Zunam]

If Amsterdam was full of quips such as these then I really, really missed out :(

About Brainstorm. Would a lot of you guys really quit if it were banned? It has nostalgia for me as well and I would be pissed off but I wouldn't want to quit. Blue and combo would be weakened which would open up the diversity quite a bit. The fundamental turn would be about a turn slower allowing mid-range decks to compete.

But I think the remedy is too print better cards/answers in other colors and leave Brainstorm legal.

Would banning Brainstorm really make the format more diverse? Will it make Nimble Mongoose better than Tarmogoyf?
There's no question that it would definitely change the format a lot (maybe to the better, maybe to the worse).
But what makes people so sure that this also automatically means that the format would get more diverse?
I am quit sure it wouldn't. There are so many cards that are just "The Best" at what they do so you will still have a creature based Deck that is better than the rest and a Combo deck that is best and so on... and I am failing to see how banning of Brainstorm would change this in any way.