[Deck] Elves Combo

[samman1]

Nice to see you French guys join the thread! Now I can maybe stop trying translating your forums :P!

Blind, what list did you play? The fast combo list with Gytaxian Probe on legacy-france? Or something else? Im thinking about making a pure combo list, maybe with Gytaxian Probe, not sure about that yet. But I have yet to decide on my win-con. Emrakul, Entity with Chords, or Ezuri with Pacts.. You guys have ideas about that?

I think Emrakul is not the best kill, because it is often a bad topdeck while mirror entity and Ezuri are often good topdecks. Entity can be tutorised by chord, Ezuri can be tutorised by any tutor. That makes a strong différence.

Emrakul has the advantage of being a very efficient kill, with its time walk effect. But during the GP, I resisted this kill in a mirror match then win.

Between Ezuri and mirror, Ezuri gives the opportunity to play monoG. If you play titania MD, GSZ x 4 can be a very good kill.

I prefere mirror because of the unlimited mana combo, that can turn a glimpse fizzle into a kill .

[samman1]

Congrats on the finish samman1.

Just one question, what's the rationale behind the single Crop Rotation?

Thanks.

The uses of crop rotation :
1 - turn a forest into cradle,
2 - turn a tapped cradle into an untapped cradle,
3 - crop+chord is a kill : end of opponent's turn, crop on forest->cradle, chord@3 -> mirror entity. Alpha strike during your turn.
4 - against dredge, fetchland+crop remove bridge from below : in response to bridge from below's trigger ability, fetchland->dryad arbord, crop on dryad arbor,
5 - crop can turn a forest into a savannah (to cast mirror, gaddock or children of korlis).

[blind]

Blind, what list did you play? The fast combo list with Gytaxian Probe on legacy-france? Or something else?

My decklist for Amsterdam :

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Gaea's Cradle
12 Forest
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Fyndhorn Elves
2 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Vengevine
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 Progenitus
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Dismember
SB: 4 Natural Order
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre

I am very happy with this decklist. Combo/Réa is very bad Match-up but other decks are good/so good Mus. ;)

I lost only Vs Combo in GP (Ant, Dredge and ElfBall).

[NihilObstat]

Hello Samuel and Olivier! Welcome to The Source it's great to have you here!!!

I would actually have many questions on your MD that come instantly to mind when seeing your list Samuel (Llanowars, Quirions, Visionaries with 3 copies), but since you are packing 3 Fauna-Vengevine & Birchlores, well, there's just so many cards we can play in a deck.

So I'll just make one question. If you say, that you are sacrificing explosiveness for resilience shouldn't you be able to cut 1 Birchlore to have 60 cards. I just can't play 61 cards! What do you think?

Although on your Side I'd really want some insight.
Was Safekeeper of any use? How often do you need Caller? Korlis seems to have potential, when do you use him, good results? Could you post an updated side when you figure one out? I'll test your list as much as I can, but I'm quite busy lately :-/

SB: 1 Progenitus
SB: 4 Natural Order

I have never played NO-Prog elves. What do you usually side out in your list for it?

[samman1]

Hello Samuel and Olivier! Welcome to The Source it's great to have you here!!!

I would actually have many questions on your MD that come instantly to mind when seeing your list Samuel (Llanowars, Quirions, Visionaries with 3 copies), but since you are packing 3 Fauna-Vengevine & Birchlores, well, there's just so many cards we can play in a deck.

So I'll just make one question. If you say, that you are sacrificing explosiveness for resilience shouldn't you be able to cut 1 Birchlore to have 60 cards. I just can't play 61 cards! What do you think?

Although on your Side I'd really want some insight.
Was Safekeeper of any use? How often do you need Caller? Korlis seems to have potential, when do you use him, good results? Could you post an updated side when you figure one out? I'll test your list as much as I can, but I'm quite busy lately :-/
I have never played NO-Prog elves. What do you usually side out in your list for it?

I know that birchlore has been cutted in several decks in USA. I don't agree. I prefere birchlore than llanovar (may be I am the only one who think that but never mind!).
It is true that llanovar turn 1 is the best play. But Birchlore is more useful after turn 2 because with birchlore, you can begin a combo glimpse. Without birchlore or heritage druid, it is very risky.

Safekeeper is with gaddock teeg my lock against combo tendrills. I have 9 tutors, so I am able to play this lock on turn 3.

I will post very soon my next version of the deck. I will play it in the final tournament of france legacy championship (in 3 weeks). All suggestions and proposals will be welcome.

[samman1]

Here is my proposal for my next list

2 verdant catacombs
2 windswepth heath
2 wooded foothills
5 forets
1 savannah
1 dryad arbor
3 gaea's cradle

2 fyndhorn elves
1 llanovar elves
3 quirion ranger
2 fauna shaman
2 priest of titania
3 elvish visionary
3 Vengevine
4 nettle sentinel
4 wirewood symbiot
4 birchlore rangers
4 heritage druid
1 regal force
1 mirror entity
1 viridian shaman

4 glimpse of nature
3 chord of calling
3 green sun's zenith

SB :
2 krosan grip
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 faerie macabre
2 surgical extraction
1 scavenging ooze
1 tormod's crypt
1 gaddock teeg
1 sylvan safekeeper
1 children of korlis
1 caller of the claw
1 vengevine
2 summoner's pact

I'd like some comments and proposals on that list.

[NihilObstat]

Surgical extraction seems to have a wider ranger of utility-versatility but it's not as good against Reanimate, since they can counter it, as Faerie, right? Don't you think we should fear Reanimate the most, and focus on it? Although Extraction is simply purely AWESOME.

[samman1]

Surgical extraction seems to have a wider ranger of utility-versatility but it's not as good against Reanimate, since they can counter it, as Faerie, right? Don't you think we should fear Reanimate the most, and focus on it? Although Extraction is simply purely AWESOME.

i agree 100% your point of view. surgical vs faerie macabre, it is more versatility, worst MU vs reanimate.

I think that with the french meta (with mystic bant, TA, team portugal, TT) reanimate is not the best choice. I am not sure about this point but it is my hypothesis to build my new version.

[1maarten1]

Surgical extraction seems to have a wider ranger of utility-versatility but it's not as good against Reanimate, since they can counter it, as Faerie, right? Don't you think we should fear Reanimate the most, and focus on it? Although Extraction is simply purely AWESOME.

Extraction can also be pretty cool against a Extraction from your opponent! Lets say they Extract your Heritage Druid. In response you extract your own druid, then ''fail'' to find any in your hand and library after which his will fizzle because the druid in your grave is removed.

[Infinitium]

I'd like some comments and proposals on that list.

I think that running fetches and duals seem extremely risky what with decks packing wasteland & stifle seeing an upswing at the moment; with as few lands as elves run it just doesn't cope well with land destruction, especially as everyone and their mother will sideboard more mass/removal postside.

Whilst the white splash can be useful for sideboard material, the Mirror Entity maindeck seem overkill (since if you've got Glimpse+PoT+Wirewood+Tutor (for Elvish Visionary) you typically just win anyhow, and there aren't any infinite life combos seeing play atm. I personally think that there's enough good options in green that the white splash is not worth it, but if you do I'd use Burrenton Forge-Tender for Firespout/Dredge/Random. In the same vein, without the splash Birchlore Rangers looks.. meh.

Running Dryad Arbor with anything less than 4 GSZ seems like a waste. In fact, anything less than 4 GSZ is probably suboptimal since it's just that much better than the alternatives. Also why less than 4 Visionaries? Pair it up with Symbiote and you've got one of the best card advantage engines in the game, and it's still extremely solid on its own.

[samman1]

I think that running fetches and duals seem extremely risky what with decks packing wasteland & stifle seeing an upswing at the moment; with as few lands as elves run it just doesn't cope well with land destruction, especially as everyone and their mother will sideboard more mass/removal postside.

Whilst the white splash can be useful for sideboard material, the Mirror Entity maindeck seem overkill (since if you've got Glimpse+PoT+Wirewood+Tutor (for Elvish Visionary) you typically just win anyhow, and there aren't any infinite life combos seeing play atm. I personally think that there's enough good options in green that the white splash is not worth it, but if you do I'd use Burrenton Forge-Tender for Firespout/Dredge/Random. In the same vein, without the splash Birchlore Rangers looks.. meh.

Running Dryad Arbor with anything less than 4 GSZ seems like a waste. In fact, anything less than 4 GSZ is probably suboptimal since it's just that much better than the alternatives. Also why less than 4 Visionaries? Pair it up with Symbiote and you've got one of the best card advantage engines in the game, and it's still extremely solid on its own.

Thank for your comments.

I have tested many configurations of land repartition. This land manabase (6 fetches, 1 savannah, 5 forest and 3 cradle) associated with my creature manabase (including a compulsory set of birchlore) gives consistance and regularity. Birchlore is a very useful creature, especially during the early game and when you want to put 3 vengevine in play. You can begin a glimpse combo with birchlore and nettle until you play heritage druid FTW. You won't do that with llanovar.
It is true that with fetchlands, stifle can be a problem. During the GP, three opponents played stifle MD, 1 of them stifled my fetchland T1. In an another round, I had to play once fetchland go with a killturn3 hand. But I won both games.
Mirror entity is imho the best kill for elfball : efficient kill, excellent topdeck, chord compatible, almost a kill with cradle or active titania.

I only play 3 GSZ because I have other very efficient tutors : fauna shaman and chord of calling. It is true that chord of calling is not as efficient as pact for combo glimpse. Same for fauna. Those 5 cards change everything : I prepare each of my turn during opponent's turn. Opponents have a lot of difficulty to anticipate all the tricks that can be played as instants.
Ex.: Your opponent has destroyed your symbiot, he plays, equip jitte and attacks. You block his creature with a visio, tap 4 creatures to play chord@1, put symbiot into the battlefield then bounce your elf. Your opponent lost 1 or 2 turns playing that. Elfball nothing. I have a good MU with cawblade and mystic bant.
Visionary is an awesome card, but it is also the case of titania or fauna shaman. My main targets for GSZ are symbiot, nettle, fauna, regal force, then visionnaire. As you wrote, symbio/visio is powerful. I only play GSZ->visionary when I have symbiot or during combo glimpse. The rest of the time, I have better things to play.

burrenton is a very good card in case of :
- volcanic fallout, firespout, pyroclasm, firestorm (dredge decks), pyrokiness, pyrostatic pillar . But few people play firespout nowadays in Europe. I play caller of the claw in case of mass removal. There are more people playing tempo thres, tempo zoo and punishing fire.deck or simply lavamancer.deck. those MU are quite bad for me and BFT won't change the situation. A 4 th Vengevine seems interesting.

[Koby]

Extraction can also be pretty cool against a Extraction from your opponent! Lets say they Extract your Heritage Druid. In response you extract your own druid, then ''fail'' to find any in your hand and library after which his will fizzle because the druid in your grave is removed.

Running Emrakul would also allow you to avoid this.
(Via Fauna Shaman: Discard creature, find Emrakul. Untap somehow, Discard Emrakul, *shuffle*, find Heritage Druid)

[Namida]

Running Emrakul would also allow you to avoid this.
(Via Fauna Shaman: Discard creature, find Emrakul. Untap somehow, Discard Emrakul, *shuffle*, find Heritage Druid)

While this is true, which one is more practical: Having one card in your hand and the two life to cast it, or having all of the cards and/or permanents necessary to discard an Emrakul with Surgical Extraction on the stack?

[samman1]

Running Emrakul would also allow you to avoid this.
(Via Fauna Shaman: Discard creature, find Emrakul. Untap somehow, Discard Emrakul, *shuffle*, find Heritage Druid)

I used to play that tricks while playing survival VV elves : it costs only GG. With fauna, it is an heavy tricks. I Prefere fetching mirror, regal force or symbiot because of the tempo.

That is the reason why I don't splash red to play anger (titania with haste is of course awesome).

[unicoerner]

What for are the children of Korlis?
I test the chords of calling. This build seems much slower, but more resilient and has good alternative plans. Perhaps Archdruid over Priest or atleast on Druid

[1maarten1]

What for are the children of Korlis?

For the combo match. You go chord for it, then in response to the last lethal copy of tendrils of agony, you sac it to gain back like 18 life so you only take 2 from their entire storm chain.

[tsabo_tavoc]

You are right : playing a 61 cards deck seems weird. If you find a card to leave in my MD, I would be very happy to talk with you about it. I spent hours to reduce my MD and I have failed.

I play this version since 3 months and it works very well. Every deck can be improved and I want to improve my version.
For the MD, I would like to introduce a 1 slot titania.

My SB is not optimal : 3 non fetchable slots for absolute law for instance.
I have chosen absolute law for punishing fire.deck, tempo thres, tempo zoo and burn/sligh decks. There must be a better solution. I precise that burrenton forge trender (I love that card) cannot be a solution by itself (not efficient enough against tempo thres, tempo zoo, punishing fire.deck that are bad MU).

If some people like my list and want to test it, I would be pleased to share our ideas, analysis, results and improvements.

Congrats on your GP finish!

Would you consider Steely Resolve? It does not prevent dmg from Firespout, but good against StP, Dismember, which are more prevalent.

BtW, what is Team Portugal?

[Koby]

Would you consider Steely Resolve?

It nerfs Wirewood Symbiote and Quirion Ranger shenanigans. It's better in Aggro Elves list than combo.

[samman1]

It nerfs Wirewood Symbiote and Quirion Ranger shenanigans. It's better in Aggro Elves list than combo.

+1

Team portugal is an evolution of team america with snapcaster mage (Tiago Chan is portuguese) : waste and stifle less, 1 or 2 liliana of the Veil, 3 jace, 2 clique, 4 SCM, deed, snare and pierce MD.

[NihilObstat]

Been testing the list and the greatest point I've seen in it so far is that it overpowers other lists in one important aspect: versatility.

Some lists go full Glimpse Emrakul combo, with only 1 Wincon (+ a very, very weak 1/1s aggro option)
Others go Glimpse + Vengevines ( Combo plan + a strong Aggro plan )
And others go Glimpse + Entity ( Combo--Aggro mix )
But this list has a whole of 3 Wincons ( Glimpse + Entity + Vengevine ), and depending on the situation/hand/pairing maybe one's more powerful or achievable than the other and it's easy to shift from one another.

The only thinh I'm still not sold into is playing Chord of Calling. I played the deck in a 30 players tournament yesterday, and I just lost too many games for being short on mana from Chord. The Instant factor changed the balance of quite a few games, but I felt that paying the extra mana was overall not worth this tech.

Anyway, after testing this I don't feel like going back to Summoner's (it feels too good tutoring for setting up the combo for next turn or going aggro), and Living Wish fucks the sideboard up, which I really enjoyed having yesterday by finally dropping Wish.

I would not play Elves with less than 6 tutors so I'm in a bit of a dilemma.



I'll make a brief Tournie summary from yesterday:

Round 1 - Affinity (1-2)
Game 1 - He starts hitting for 8 flying on turn 2, and tutoring up Umezawa's Jitte. I zenith into Viridian --- Cranial. After a lot of crazy shenanigans with Viridian Shaman + Symbiote, I have the board controlled and I'm going to kill him next turn. Cast shaman twice, destroying land and Mox opal leaving him with only colorless mana (At 2 life I didn't want to risk Galvanic Blast). He topdecks Plating and kills me with "flying" Signal Pest...
Game 2 - Combo turn 2 or 3.
Game 3 - Mulligan to 6, and keep a turn 2 combo hand with Dryad as my only land. He Dispatches it and I don't draw land again.

Round 2 - Elves combo (0-2)
Game 1- I know he plays Elves, and I start and think the turn 3 combo hand I keep will be good enough. It's not, he finishes me turn 2 thanks with Summoner's pact.
Game 2- I keep again a turn 3 hand which didn't work due to shitty drawing. He wins again thanks to Summoner's Pact being extremely helpful for the combo.
I would have won both games had my Chords been Summoners.

Round 3 - (2-0) I easily beat a guy named Bye. He really wasn't any good at all...

Round 4 - Burn (2-0)
I don't know you guy, but I always find burn very easy. If they bolt our guy they can't win, if they don't bolt them we win. Anyway, Burrenton and my singleton Absolute Law save me from a Volcanic Fallout on game 2.

Round 5 - Reanimate (1-2)
Game 1- The first game is always a tough one, specially against turn 2 Elesh Norn.
Game 2- He mulligans to 6 and keeps a hand with control but no combo pieces. After some turn I resolve a Glimpse and land some pointy ears, 2 Tormod's and a Qasali waiting to respond to Animate Dead. He lands Null Rod, but is not able to combo before I aggro him out.
Game 3- I keep a fast hand without any grave hate. Glimpse goes with Fow and he resurrects Iona on turn 4. I try to convince him to play Iona on White and not Green because I have Savannah untapped and Path to Exile in hand. He doesn't believe me so I scoop since I actually don't have any removal ^^

I think I could have done better, specially in the first game and really loved the list and all the strengths it has. I'm just not 100% sold on Chord yet, but everything else is great.

Would you guys keep a turn 2-3 hand against Reanimate or would you mull into grave-hate? Btw, my Tormod's should have been Faerie Macabre, didn't find any :/
I did run Extraction, but never saw it.