I'm quite new to this decks but I'm giving it a try for a little while. I tried the 4 Burning Wish, 3 Infernal Tutor build with Past in Flames in the place of IGG. My problem is occasionaly when I cast Burning Wish I don't have another red mana for a PiF and go for the IGG in the board anyways. Which is good in the sense that I've effectively upped my Tutor count. But then to get the Tendrils I need a red mana again..
Also when I cast Past in Flames I'm low on mana and can't use Leds or Petals. With only black mana I can't cast Burning Wish. Then I reach for the Infernal Tutor but remember that they are not much good without LEDs. I can't get the synergy going when I splash red.
This is the reason Grim Tutor and cabal ritual make past in flames better, it keeps the mana black and cabal with threshold makes a lot of mana (equivalent of LED). The red rituals are not as good with past in flames(particularly rite of flame) because they become worse with each on cast .
Hi,
Just new to the thread. Been playing the deck for so long since the MT legal days and has seen its various evolutions.
I've been trying out a doomsday SB plan with laboratory maniac as the win con instead of emrakul-shelldock. Allows you to win outright and frees up another slot in your SB.
Your thoughts?
Hi,
Just new to the thread. Been playing the deck for so long since the MT legal days and has seen its various evolutions.
I've been trying out a doomsday SB plan with laboratory maniac as the win con instead of emrakul-shelldock. Allows you to win outright and frees up another slot in your SB.
Your thoughts?
DD + Emrakul was mainly the plan against Counterbalance. Maniac with it's CC2 will easily be hit by it, although you should be able to set up the combo before they can. Unless you have to ship the turn to draw into the DD pile. Maniac is also easily hit by leftover removal your opponent didn't side out.
I like the Combo of DD + Maniac, but right now I think it's just a slot DDFT can (propably won't) 'waste' on it. What matchup particularly did you want to adress those 5 slots to? I guess it can be good against BUG Snapcaster, since they have not that much removal, but I really don't know if the chances make you want to have 5 SB slots on it.
DD + Emrakul was mainly the plan against Counterbalance. Maniac with it's CC2 will easily be hit by it, although you should be able to set up the combo before they can. Unless you have to ship the turn to draw into the DD pile. Maniac is also easily hit by leftover removal your opponent didn't side out.
I like the Combo of DD + Maniac, but right now I think it's just a slot DDFT can (propably won't) 'waste' on it. What matchup particularly did you want to adress those 5 slots to? I guess it can be good against BUG Snapcaster, since they have not that much removal, but I really don't know if the chances make you want to have 5 SB slots on it.
Seems a lot better in Vintage where you don't have to worry about creature removal as much, and where you can easily construct a pile to win with Gush and Ancestral Recall on the same turn.Originally Posted by OneWingedAngel
What's the Doomsday pile you have in mind? A pass-the-turn pile with a 2/2 creature is kind of awkward.
I've heard from 4 people that they had played during GP vs ANT pilots with SB Laboratory Maniac and Divining Witch. All of them won because of creature removal, jace or stifle. SB DD+L.Maniac is too fragile. I would only try to play it in a deck with chant effects. DD+Emrakul is good vs some blue decks without wasteland, vs CB and vs Reanimator.
Last edited by Deviruchi; 10-26-2011 at 08:53 AM. Reason: tags
DD+Emrakul It seems too slow against reanimator from what I can see, I really only see it working against counter top.
After SCG Vegas, I'll post on how to make Burning Wish and Past in Flames work. Until then, just keep trying.
Why wait till Vegas?
Don't really want my list all over the place before I get a chance to play in a major tournament.Why wait till Vegas?
Well good luck
We're looking forward to the event then, it would be nice to see a TNT build on a feature match :) Good luck!
Has anyone had a chance to test with Past in Flames over Ill-Gotten Gains in ANT? I'm seriously contemplating cutting one Island and Ill-Gotten Gains for a Volcanic Island and Past in Flames maindeck for the SCG event this weekend. My justification for this move is several fold.
Past in Flames, at least in gold-fishing, has been extremely powerful. It has allowed me to generate copious amounts of Storm in a fairly quick manner with excess mana left over. The extra storm is needed to protect yourself against them casting Force of Will on the 10th copy of Tendrils which would prevent you from achieving lethal storm. The extra mana also seems warranted since I believe Flusterstorm will see a rise in popularity given how powerful it appears to be in a Snapcaster.dec metagame.
I also believe that given the rise in the number of Hymn to Tourach decks as well as the number of blue decks running Spell Snare, that having the ability to flashback discarded tutors and rituals seems like a way to sidestep what would otherwise be crippling disruption. In the same line of reasoning, Past in Flames' ability to generate +12 storm should allow you to play out Lion's Eye Diamond early against BUG and BW, preventing them from discarding it. At least from my experience, using Ill-Gotten Gains often required you to play the Lion's Eye Diamond(s) the turn you were going off since you may not have been able to generate enough storm.
I also have seen several lists placing at events including the Top 8 deck from the recent GP which are weighing on my decision.
I thought Past in Flames was already a proven and consolidated replacement for Ill-Gotten Gains. So yes, the majority of the builds have adopted it adding one or two lands for red. It is a complete beast in covering the chantless versions' weakness towards Stifle and Spell Snare decks, as well as exploiting furtherly LEDs' brokenness.
Although there are still people who can't recognize how it is far miles better than IGG-which is preferable only against the decks where you are actually having a bye or almost.
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Is Ill-Gotten Gains even worth a sideboard slot at this point?
Imho IGG is out.
Past in Flames is better vs any blue.deck, and you only prefer IGG when you have 2 LED with only one dark ritual in graveyard and few life points. In any case you must have 4 spell before cast IT to IGG plan.
Assuming you have enough Mana(floating 6 after DD) and have a cantrip in hand(BS preferably)and extra card, I'd probably go for a very simple L. maniac, BS,probe,BS, plus another cantrip maybe. Just getting it on top of my head so again I might be wrong with my pile but the idea is to win with a lot of cantrips on the spot.
I was experimenting on it since its very common for most opponents here in our local to side out their removal spells(STP/PTE) during game two (unless they're packing bolts) and bring in more permission.
PSA: Time to splash Chants. A year ago when everyone was Daze/Wasting/Piercing and no one was Snare/Stifling, it was wrong. Things change. 2 Island, 1 Swamp, 1 Scrubland, 1 Tundra, -1 Preordain, -2 Seize, +3 Chant/Silence.
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