GP Amsterdam Top 8

[Adan]

As a Tide player, I'm aware of what Iona does to the deck, bro. I'm pretty sure that's not the only factor, as it wasn't like the whole field was ReAnimator and Dredge.

Yeah, it was also full of decks that were prepared for Combo decks. Stoneblade and Bant can both play Meddling Mage and/or Ethersworn Canonist.

GW plays Gaddok Teeg which they can fetch with Zenith (okay, rather irrelevant against Hightide as it just shuts off Turnabout and BSZ) and Ethersworn Canonist which they can fetch with Enlightened Tutor since every GW deck plays a E-Tutor-Toolbox in their SB.
Aggrocontrols like Candian Thresh are not a favourable matchup for Springtide and all the deck can play Surgical Extraction für additional disruption.

With this aspect AND Hightide being the slowest combodeck atm, I am not worried why Hightide has not performed very well. I also think that Springtide is the mlst inconsistent deck in view of deck design. There are people that play with Candelabra, others play Snapcasters and Snaps, some people play without Meditate, some people think a singleton Timespiral in their deck is enough etc.

And some of these lists have it more or less easier than the others to deal with a certain problem and/or have different fizzle-rates.
There is no stock list and no build that has established itself to be "the best" Springtide.

Ah, and to add fuel to the debate a few pages before: Some people still suck at casting their Brainstorms well-timed. ;-P

[Admiral_Arzar]

Yeah, it was also full of decks that were prepared for Combo decks. Stoneblade and Bant can both play Meddling Mage and/or Ethersworn Canonist.

GW plays Gaddok Teeg which they can fetch with Zenith (okay, rather irrelevant against Hightide as it just shuts off Turnabout and BSZ) and Ethersworn Canonist which they can fetch with Enlightened Tutor since every GW deck plays a E-Tutor-Toolbox in their SB.
Aggrocontrols like Candian Thresh are not a favourable matchup for Springtide and all the deck can play Surgical Extraction für additional disruption.

With this aspect AND Hightide being the slowest combodeck atm, I am not worried why Hightide has not performed very well. I also think that Springtide is the mlst inconsistent deck in view of deck design. There are people that play with Candelabra, others play Snapcasters and Snaps, some people play without Meditate, some people think a singleton Timespiral in their deck is enough etc.

And some of these lists have it more or less easier than the others to deal with a certain problem and/or have different fizzle-rates.
There is no stock list and no build that has established itself to be "the best" Springtide.

Ah, and to add fuel to the debate a few pages before: Some people still suck at casting their Brainstorms well-timed. ;-P

Large amounts of combo preparation I can understand. In terms of Canadian thresh (and other non-black tempo decks), I actually find that matchup to be favorable, even with Surgical Extractions coming in post-board. It's when blue decks start packing Hymns or Spellslutter Sprites en mass (or Counterbalance, of course) that I have problems.

[Esper3k]

I just hope tons of Merfolk show up to attack the blue decks, nothing is more rewarding that frying Fish with SoFI. :grin:

Or stick 'em with the fork!

I always say that the best defense against Merfolk is not playing Islands...

[DragoFireheart]

Interesting that a Counterbalance deck won the GP. Any thoughts on that? Did he simply get lucky with the matchups or what?

[Koby]

Interesting that a Counterbalance deck won the GP. Any thoughts on that? Did he simply get lucky with the matchups or what?

Did you mean SCG? Calasso won the SCGBaltimore event with CB RUG, while Pierre Sommen won with Bant Aggro. UW Counterbalance did make 8th place at the GP though.

[DragoFireheart]

Did you mean SCG? Calasso won the SCGBaltimore event with CB RUG, while Pierre Sommen won with Bant Aggro. UW Counterbalance did make 8th place at the GP though.

Oh my bad, I meant the SCGBaltimore event.

[Aggro_zombies]

Interesting that a Counterbalance deck won the GP. Any thoughts on that? Did he simply get lucky with the matchups or what?

An active Counterbalance is quite good against other blue decks and is of course good versus many combo decks, so those are reasons to include it. Furthermore, hate for the card (in the form of EE and Grip) has largely disappeared because who plays Counterbalance? In a field as dominated by blue as this one I can see wanting a mid- to late-game trump card. His deck looks a little like a format relic, but Legacy might just be homogenous enough right now to justify control decks.

Also, the Counterbalance deck was in eighth.

[Nekrataal]

I think it is save to say that although it is quite obvious with 12% being the average for your so called "entrance" %. A simpler way looking at this would be to take a deck like TA and see that it tripled its metagame relevance for day 2. The same factor can be observed between 12% being the average (keeping the level of metagame relevance like Elves) and 36% for TA which is trice as much. Translating that:

Tripled or more then tripled metagame presence during the tournament:
Team America
Canadian Threshold
Bant

So these decks did extremely well and there is a wide gap until it is followed by decks that slightly
increased their metgame presence like:

Dredge
UW Stoneforge
Maverick
Ad Nauseam Tendrils

From decks that stayed more or less indifferent to the metagame:
Elves -- 10.82%
Goblins -- 10.80%

To decks that were reduced in presence:
Sneak Attack
Reanimator
Merfolk

To decks that obviously were a bad to crappy choice
UB Snapcaster Control -- 6.20%
Doomsday -- 5.36%
Zoo -- 4.82%
BUG -- 3.61%
High Tide -- 2.68%
Burn -- 2.17%
Junk -- 1.79%

Also I agree with the basic trend observed Combo > Aggro and Aggro Control > Combo for this tournament.

[catmint]

How did they make the cut between BUG and TA?
the 3 "TA" decks in the top 32 run 23 lands+ and I would call them BUG (altough 1 is running 3 Stifle).

I think they messed these thats up... this is why TA is so high and BUG so low...

[ddt15]

Because they hate you.

And in other news, tempo decks and Bant midrange continue to be really strong choices. If the amount of combo starts to go down after this GP, the format will probably diversify more, but as long as people think that MMS being banned means combo is suddenly the bestest thing ever, blue will continue to be a strong choice. Hopefully in the next few months we'll see a surge in anti-blue strategies that are typically vulnerable to combo decks (though it's hard to say because Legacy is starting to suffer from a lot of the groupthink and herd mentality that Standard has in terms of deckbuilding and deck choice).

Well a big problem is that blue can plug the holes in their strategy by splashing a few cards from other colors. Goblins and Zoo don't really cut it anymore against blue. That leaves just GW because it can beat aggro-control decks, mostly because it can win Goyf/Knight standoffs.

[sdematt]

I mainly dislike how the format has sped up since MM got banned. I do like more diversity, but still...

-Matt

[honestabe]

Sure, they *could* ban Brainstorm. In most cases, it would be replaced by Preordain, then in a year, we can start to hear bitching about how broken Preordain is, and how it needs to be banned. Just because Brainstorm is the best at what it does doesn't mean it's broken.

[Namida]

Sure, they *could* ban Brainstorm. In most cases, it would be replaced by Preordain, then in a year, we can start to hear bitching about how broken Preordain is, and how it needs to be banned. Just because Brainstorm is the best at what it does doesn't mean it's broken.

I recall someone once telling me that Brainstorm is insane because it basically "undoes" a mulligan, and that comment stuck with me. The card, when you pair it with a shuffle effect, is a level of card selection that I wouldn't be wholly opposed to calling unfair. And that's not even delving into using the "put two on top" part to hide cards from disruption/shuffle back cards you need in-deck and not in hand. I wouldn't call it broken, but Preordain isn't even comparable, in my mind. It's not just the best at what it does--what other card functions mechanically like Brainstorm?

[Fatal]

There is a big difference between Brainstorm and other cantrips, BS changes 3 cards, other ones changes 1..

[Gheizen64]

There is a big difference between Brainstorm and other cantrips, BS changes 3 cards, other ones changes 1..

The big point is also that being an instant make discard so much weaker. Especially against combo/control.

[spirit of the wretch]

It's not just the best at what it does--what other card functions mechanically like Brainstorm?

Dream Cache
Survivor of the Unseen

[Hof]

And Conch Horn.

But why are we having this discussion - why now? Brainstorm is played in control and combo decks and in some aggro-control decks with blue, and it is truly excellent at what it does, but at a cost. There is a reason why aggro decks don't play Brainstorm - even blue aggro decks like Merfolk don't play it, not even Merfolk versions with fetchlands, because it is too slow for this strategy. Unlike, say Mental Misstep which was played in almost every competitive deck there was - control, combo, and aggro alike.

[Gheizen64]

And Conch Horn.

But why are we having this discussion - why now? Brainstorm is played in control and combo decks and in some aggro-control decks with blue, and it is truly excellent at what it does, but at a cost. There is a reason why aggro decks don't play Brainstorm - even blue aggro decks like Merfolk don't play it, not even Merfolk versions with fetchlands, because it is too slow for this strategy. Unlike, say Mental Misstep which was played in almost every competitive deck there was - control, combo, and aggro alike.

Actually brainstorm was the reason Blue Zoo existed in the first place. That and MM. And now that and Delver of secrets.

[Hof]

Actually brainstorm was the reason Blue Zoo existed in the first place. That and MM. And now that and Delver of secrets.

Blue Zoo can hardly be categorized as a Zoo deck, it is much more like Threshold. In fact, Blue Zoo and Ugr Threshold has converged so much that they are practically the same deck now. The only real difference between the two is the amount of stifle/wasteland contra burn.

[nedleeds]

Sure, they *could* ban Brainstorm. In most cases, it would be replaced by Preordain, then in a year, we can start to hear bitching about how broken Preordain is, and how it needs to be banned. Just because Brainstorm is the best at what it does doesn't mean it's broken.

The term broken is absurd; but as it turns out it is far more powerful than other banned cards.

Also, you should check out the following topics:

Sorceries

and

Instants.

Because if you don't see why Brainstorm is head and shoulders above the other U-trips (assuming the ubiquity of fetchlands) then you probably don't have an informed opinion on the subject.